 Poster: A snowHead
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
Austria is the only place I've skied where the piste bashers come out in the middle of the day if it's snowing heavily. Now I'm thinking that that may be for legal/contractual reasons?
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There are exceptions for during exceptional snowfall (thankfully!), so that's probably for other reasons - snow management/conservation or something maybe?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| munich_irish wrote: |
| clarky999 wrote: |
I think the point is that a ski route may or may not be groomed, but a piste HAS to be groomed and must be closed if not (unless in exceptional snowfall).
I also think it's super weird of the Arlberg to groom some ski routes, and that it defeats the purpose of the designation - I guess the reason they do it and designate those as ski routes rather than pistes is just to give themselves more legal flexibility on when/how they have to open/close/maintain/patrol them. |
It is the potential confusion it causes that is the problem. For those who know the area it adds to the attraction, of being "in the know" of what to do and what not to. But surely the point of the various designations is to help those who dont know the area and want to be informed about what they might face. |
No argument here!
| munich_irish wrote: |
| The ski routes have a red and black designation (that's not in the rules!) but even that is not clear, is Langerzug really as difficult as Tannegg? |
That is a good point. There definitely either is used to be two levels of ski route - 'ski route' and 'extreme ski route', which I seem to remember were marked by a yellow outline? Nordkette also still shows different levels of ski route, with a black band around the red ski route diamond on the upper couloirs but just the diamond on the lower routes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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In the Grand Massif there are several runs marked on the map as black and a number label that refers to a list of “Freeride Zones” which are listed on the map as “Pistes sécurisées non damées / Secured Ungroomed Pistes”
From memory those are marked with boundary poles but much wider than a typical groomed piste, hazards such as rocks etc are marked with crossed orange and black poles, sometimes closed etc. So the only real difference between that and any other run is they never see a piste basher.
In Avoriaz they have 3 runs they call Snowcross and are listed on the map as “Pistes balisées non dames / Signed non groomed ski slopes”. The snocross runs at the top of Fornet have gates the give you access to a large area of ungoomed snow where the boundaries are only defined by the terrain as you’re under a cliff band on skiers left and a blue groomed run on the right. On the PDS version of the map for the whole area these are simply marked as normal runs.
There are other examples in France but in my experience whatever they’re called they’re all secured for avalanches and patrolled, in that if you injure yourself they’ll rescue you. No piste in France is ever patrolled in that people ski down checking things out. But also understand that the resorts pisteurs will rescue you as long as you ski from a lift and don’t go past signs telling you otherwise or hike upwards.
And also whatever they’re called these zones are great. A way to have the challenge of off piste without the burden of avalanche preparedness or route finding. And I assume a direct response to the NA model.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
No piste in France is ever patrolled in that people ski down checking things out.
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Not so in Les Arcs in that you will often see pistuers skiing down checking things out: replacing boundary markers, marking rock outcrops (crossed black and yellow poles), fixing safetey fencing etc. They are often just circulating lifts looking out for anything that is wrong and quite often you will see them just hanging back watching skiers who appear to be struggling.
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I think Meribel and the 3 valleys wins the prize for the most confusing marking of a route that is secured for avalanches, covered by the pisteurs and route marked but not groomed. They have two separate branded zones which are just this, Back to the Wild and Vertical Experience.
Les Menuires calls the same thing “Liberty Ride” and Val Thorens simply marks a few runs on the map as Non Damées.
But I think the thing they all share is if they’re marked on the map they can be closed, are secured for avalanches and covered by pisteurs.
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In Les Saisies the pisteurs also patrol down all runs at the end of the day, chasing down anybody lingering and helping those struggling. I experienced this last when we were skiing with a family (met through Snowheads) who set out to do "just one more run" rather unwisely, I thought, as Dad was not a strong skier and they had quite a small child. Sure enough she was struggling on the long home run. Such a shame because she'd had a lovely day but was tired and discouraged. The pisteur who lived opposite our apartment happened along. He just picked up the little girl, skis and all, and carried her down. Coincidentally I learned when I was in Les Saisies at Christmas that he died of cancer last year. They are generally out and about most of the time. Reading the marvellous thread by aIdris suggests that at busy times they are often fully stretched dealing with accidents. I don't think they spend much time with their feet up smoking Gaulois.
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Agree, you often see pisteurs out and about and they definitely check people are off the pistes as they close down at the end of the day.
But I meant their role is not to police the slopes as we often hear about in NA resorts.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Patrol's role is not to police the slopes in N America. They do explosives, control, various other safety work - ropelines, pylon mats etc and of course first aid and rescue.
There are yellow (usually) jackets many places who do some slope safety stuff like manning slow zone signs or directing traffic while patrol attend to an injury but it's hardly like speed cops lying in wait. Some places these people may double as roving info/ ski hosts etc. The difference usually is patrol are young, fit can ski anything with their hands full etc. Yellow jackets can be quite sucky skiers ( although by no means are all) and are more likely to be retired folk etc.
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Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Tue 5-03-24 5:34; edited 1 time in total
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