 Poster: A snowHead
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I got stuck in a Citroen berlingo with Michelin winter tyres on on the road to weardale , slightest incline but ice, nothing I could do to move, tried all the tricks but was sliding off the road slowly, put chains on, first time I've done it, couldn't believe the difference, just drove away like the road was dry, I wouldn't go anywhere that was snowy without them , winter tyres aren't up to much in my opinion
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kiteman69 wrote: |
Morning.
We're based in Manchester and have mulled over driving to Les Arcs (BSM) many times in our motorhome.
Our preferred route (according to viamichelin) would be from Dieppe.
Get the overnight Ferry from Newhaven that spits you out after a few hours sleep about 5AM onto empty roads.
It is only DFDS who sale this route but I believe if one of the people in the car is over 60 you get a 20%...... but DYOR |
I’ve done the Newhaven 11pm crossing a few times. I always feel I get a good 4-5 hours sleep. The boat sails slower than the normal daytime 5 hour crossing. Arriving at say 5/5.30am, I love getting 2 or 3 hours driving in then stopping for breakfast. Feels like you’ve got a big chunk of your driving done and it’s only 8.30.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Gitty wrote: |
| I got stuck in a Citroen berlingo with Michelin winter tyres on on the road to weardale , slightest incline but ice, nothing I could do to move, tried all the tricks but was sliding off the road slowly, put chains on, first time I've done it, couldn't believe the difference, just drove away like the road was dry, I wouldn't go anywhere that was snowy without them , winter tyres aren't up to much in my opinion |
My experience differs to yours. I've climbed many snow-covered roads on winter tyres alone - once on a steep incline in Austria in (ironically) our Citroen Berlingo:D; plus many times in a hire car in the Alps (including the climb up to, and descent from, Val Thorens. They've always made a massive difference in my experience. I also usually test the braking capabilities of winter tyres (when the snow-covered road is free of traffic) and find the difference incredible!
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@Bergmeister, I know that snow is actually ice but I suspect that Gitty is talking about what is generally known as black ice.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This can't be said too often. Winter tyres are terrific. But still, sometimes, you need chains too. Unpredictably. And if it's snowing heavily, on a minor road which will NOT be ploughed late in the evening and overnight, a road can be completely impassable even with both.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| kiteman69 wrote: |
Morning.
We're based in Manchester and have mulled over driving to Les Arcs (BSM) many times in our motorhome.
Our preferred route (according to viamichelin) would be from Dieppe.
Get the overnight Ferry from Newhaven that spits you out after a few hours sleep about 5AM onto empty roads.
It is only DFDS who sale this route but I believe if one of the people in the car is over 60 you get a 20%...... but DYOR |
There's interesting contrast in routing, in which the bits people are trying to avoid can add just as much complexity to the journey as they seek to miss.
Newhaven is quite nuanced to get to, particularly if travelling from Midlands and above location. Easy~ish from West Country locations.
Anywhere skirting London (Newhaven requires that from North location generally) is by far easiest route on the M25 to Folkestone, thats for a route to drive, the bugbear being timing of course. Getting to exit port UK for 11.00pm though is highly unlikely to offer delays, even on a Friday. Its a very easy drive later into the evening, don't even have to turn the steering wheel to get the Folkestone "slot" with the two outside lanes going straight down there and taking you off the M25 
Flashpoints for traffic are Monday morning, Friday from lunchtime until 9.00 usually at its thickest, also no surprise to anyone generally commuting anywhere really. Outside the general morning/evening peaks though, there's huge capacity and very convenient route ftom northern (M1 route) and Western approach routes around the west side of metropolis.
Dieppe route too has consideration, with either toward and around Paris, which everyone seems to prefer avoiding, or Rouen across to Riems and getting onto the traditional Calais to Alps routing.
If you can make time fit, then M25 to Folkestone is one of the easiest to take, the onward route fromCalais is very, very simple too and with many interesting place to break a journey. Timings and passage right though, the M25 Eurotunnel is a very slick operation and worth consideration.
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| johnE wrote: |
| @Bergmeister, I know that snow is actually ice but I suspect that Gitty is talking about what is generally known as black ice. |
I know. But I was responding to the "winter tyres aren't up to much" comment, based on my experience of WTs.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I just came back from the alps, i was fined 200 euros for not having a vignette which i was infuriated about for a multitude of reasons.
I hired a car from the french sector thinking intuitively that going into france would not require this, only to be stopped and slapped with the fine + 40 euros for a whole year's worth of vignette.
I dont mind paying a small fine for getting this wrong (absolute maximum 50 euros), but 200 euros?!! Seriously? This is totally unjustified, and makes the swiss look like they are basically just trying to rip off unsuspecting tourists like some tin pot african country. When i asked why it was so much the guy just said "this is switzerland", what a total douchebag. In addition the car hire company should have made it clear this was required, but absolutely zilch from them.
In addition, trying to find the french sector on the way back was a nightmare to the point where i almost missed my flight. The road system around geneva airport is an absolute mess, and the little road going to the french sector looks more like a tradesman entrance!
Geneva airport as a whole is an international embarrassment.
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| Quote: |
I hired a car from the french sector thinking intuitively that going into france would not require this,
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The vignette is only to drive on the Swiss motorways. You can drive into France without going onto the motorway. The car hire desk usually gives you printed instructions on how to get to the French motorway system without using the Swiss motorways. I'm suprised you were fined in Euros rather than Swiss Francs.
The signposting on the Swiss motorways on how to get to the French side is non existant, as if they are refusing to acknowledge that there is a French sector but it is acutally quite easy to find provided you know you are heading to Freney Voltaire. With this knowledge it is no harder than the Swiss side.
I'm suprised you haven't commented of the very long waits to get through immigration. It's even worse that getting into the UK.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Mrmeaner, You can also download the map that shows how to avoid needing the vignette.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| ski3 wrote: |
Dieppe route too has consideration, with either toward and around Paris, which everyone seems to prefer avoiding |
When we came back from Disneyland paris we went round Paris on the periphique and didn't find it a problem.
We thought going through Lyon, a few days earlier, was more of a b4ll ache.
As for the M25, yes it is shocking. We do the stretch from the M40 south and hate every bit of it, but there seems to be no other way to get to newhaven / south coast ferry ports 
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 20-02-24 15:48; edited 1 time in total
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| Mrmeaner wrote: |
I just came back from the alps, i was fined 200 euros for not having a vignette which i was infuriated about for a multitude of reasons.
I hired a car from the french sector thinking intuitively that going into france would not require this, only to be stopped and slapped with the fine + 40 euros for a whole year's worth of vignette.
I dont mind paying a small fine for getting this wrong (absolute maximum 50 euros), but 200 euros?!! Seriously? This is totally unjustified, and makes the swiss look like they are basically just trying to rip off unsuspecting tourists like some tin pot african country. When i asked why it was so much the guy just said "this is switzerland", what a total douchebag. In addition the car hire company should have made it clear this was required, but absolutely zilch from them.
In addition, trying to find the french sector on the way back was a nightmare to the point where i almost missed my flight. The road system around geneva airport is an absolute mess, and the little road going to the french sector looks more like a tradesman entrance!
Geneva airport as a whole is an international embarrassment. |
Why were you fined in euros in Switzerland?
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You know it makes sense.
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You can probably pay in either currency as you can for a vignette.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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From what I understand there isn't a physical vignette any more, whether you have paid for motorway use is identified by Automatic Numberplate Recognition. Which presumably means every car is checked.
It is pretty well known (stated often on Snowheads) that cars hired from the Swiss side will already have a vignette, whereas French ones won't necessarily. Presumably most French rental is by locals who know the routes which don't need it.
Basically Geneva is a Swiss airport, the clue is in the name. There can hardly be many planes which use the French side, presumably internal French ones. And very little call for anyone to access that terminal from Switzerland. It may be better signposted within France, but for that you would have to take the A40 on as far as Bellegarde to find the road that leads to Ferney Voltaire without crossing the border.
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Poster: A snowHead
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In my experience hirers on the French side get given a map explaining how to get back, in amongst all the other bumf.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You can also get drive from the airport to French ski resorts such as Chamonix (and most others) by transiting Geneva instead of using the motorway to Bardonnex. You just go down to the lake, nip round the end and then turn right. I did that quite a few times until getting snarled up in very heavy traffic one day, and have been wary of that route since.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not much snow on the roads when I went the other week to argentiere. In fact I was pretty shocked. Even the carparks were thawed. I wouldn't worry about it. Pop your chains in for an emergency. Only snow you may encounter is the last 200 yards.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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From 1st Nov 2024 you will need tyres marked with the 3MPSF symbol to drive in mountain regions during winter. Depending on the conditions you may also need snowchains.
We did the drive from Manchester to the Alps this winter and got our M+S tyres changed for 3MPSF winter tyres; we also have snow chains. We set off early Friday morning and had a pretty easy trip down to Folkestone, and got the tunnel mid afternoon. We carried on through France for a few hours and stayed overnight just outside Troyes. We picked somewhere just a few mins off the motorway for a quick drive back onto the autoroute in the morning. Saturday was spent driving to resort, which took quite a while due to traffic outside Geneva because of an accident, and then some pretty lengthy queues on the N90. Got to resort about 4pm.
We had some brief stress on the way back wondering whether we'd meet some piles of carrots or tractors on the autoroute due to the farmers demonstrating, but thankfully it was fine. We took a slight scenic route on the way back over the Jura mountains north of geneva, which was beautiful.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Every year we see a slew of responses to a 'Rent from the Swiss or French Side at GVA?' thread saying that it's a breeze to use the French side and easy to navigate around the Swiss autoroute and no need for a vignette. These people are usually notably absent when anyone pipes up that they've fallen foul of the strategy of hiring from the French side and been nobbled by the Swiss police, because they either unknowingly or mistakenly used some part of the Swiss autoroute network. And note that an autoroute isn't necessary a 3-lane road with a hard shoulder, it can be dual-carriageway. However, I do feel sympathy for those who have been let down by their French-side rental agency for not making the requirement clear and not providing a routing map.
The Swiss Vignette is now available as an electronic version, including for foreign-registered vehicles, online at www.e-vignette.ch
Note that a Goggle search for this will come up with a load of intermediary sites that charge for the service, or may even be scammers. The above URL is for the official site.
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@LaForet, I drove back to Manchester two weekends ago through Geneva without using the Swiss autoroutes.
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I think that when people have sought advice here on Snowheads they have been given a pretty comprehensive slew of advice. And there is a "caveat emptor" point here. When you are going to drive in a foreign country with which you're not familiar, some advance preparation is called for, and with the internet to hand, easy enough. It's completely unreasonable to moan because some low-level official on the Swiss border is not willing to change the rules in your favour because you've failed to inform yourself.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@alan_1951, I regularly drive from Cheshire into Europe, nowadays Summer only, and I use the Newhaven - Dieppe ferry, gets me to central France for a night stop. Leaving early morning it can take as little as 3-4hrs to Newhaven using the M6 toll and M40, both fast roads. The 4 hour crossing is ample for a bite and a nap.
If you choose to use the M1 and M25 for the toll Dartford crossing, pay online before departure for both outward and return. You don't need to date your use so if unused it can be used on another journey. The fine is expensive, the fee is only £2.50 each way. It is not transferable to another vehicle.
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| davidthornton wrote: |
| .....If you choose to use the M1 and M25 for the toll Dartford crossing, pay online before departure for both outward and return. You don't need to date your use so if unused it can be used on another journey. The fine is expensive, the fee is only £2.50 each way.. |
Sage advice. Have fallen foul of that once or twice with work when I've totally forgotten to pay on the day (thankfully - and miraculously - I managed to wangle out of a few of the fines by paying the £2.50 later)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You need to pay the Dartford Crossing charge (Dart Charge) by midnight the day after you cross.
You can set up an account and pre fund it with automatic top ups and put in multiple reg numbers so that the money is taken automatically. Worth doing if you use the crossing more than a couple of times a year I would say.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We drove from Aberdeen to La Plagne this year. Was a bit of an epic, but we drove down to Essex, then stayed with my folks overnight and headed to the Eurotunnel the next day. Crossed and drove to Dijon where we stayed overnight then drove onto LP the following morning. On the return we headed straight to Calais and took an evening departure to Folkestone and then up to Essex again, before driving home after a day with the parents. We could have done it faster by taking an earlier departure to Calais and doing the drive in a day, or an evening train and an overnight in Calais - but as it was the first time we wanted to take it easy.
We always stay in a small self-catering apartment in Montchavin: http://www.notrereve-apartment.com/
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@aberdeenski, it’s definitely doable. We did Newtonmore-Argentiere in December: day 1 left Newtonmore after work at 1700 to Penrith; day 2 left Penrith 0600, lunchtime Eurotunnel and leisurely dinner/ overnight St Quentin; day 3 left St Q 0800, shopping in Sallanches by 1530 and at apartment in Argentiere before 1700. A comfortable trip in exactly 48 hrs including some nice meals/ beer/ wine and getting groceries stocked up for the week
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You know it makes sense.
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@Inboard thanks! I’d definitely consider doing it again for sure.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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has anyone suggested the Hull Rotterdam/Zeebruge crossing an overnight ina cabin get off at 0830 and down via Luxembourg for cheap fuel ...you can do it in a day to the alps ...I have
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
has anyone suggested the Hull Rotterdam/Zeebruge crossing an overnight ina cabin get off at 0830 and down via Luxembourg for cheap fuel ...you can do it in a day to the alps ...I have
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Does the night on the boat not count? I assume you mean 24 hours from home rather than the same day.
Reading these posts makes me realise just how far from the channel ports Scotland is. I assume that Ireland means the ferry to Cherbourg or Roscoff which is probably as far as you can get n France from the Alps. We are lucky in the Midlands being only 4 hours from Dover and 15 hours from the French Alps.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Reading these posts makes me realise just how far from the channel ports Scotland is. I assume that Ireland means the ferry to Cherbourg or Roscoff which is probably as far as you can get n France from the Alps. We are lucky in the Midlands being only 4 hours from Dover and 15 hours from the French Alps. |
Yep. Takes me around 4hours to drive to the border at Gretna - I’d consider the Eurostar snow train to reach the Alps but it’s not cheap, especially if I need to catch the Sleeper from up here. The LNER is much better value. Something for me to look into.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
has anyone suggested the Hull Rotterdam/Zeebruge crossing an overnight ina cabin get off at 0830 and down via Luxembourg for cheap fuel ...you can do it in a day to the alps ...I have
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Does the night on the boat not count? I assume you mean 24 hours from home rather than the same day.
Reading these posts makes me realise just how far from the channel ports Scotland is. I assume that Ireland means the ferry to Cherbourg or Roscoff which is probably as far as you can get n France from the Alps. We are lucky in the Midlands being only 4 hours from Dover and 15 hours from the French Alps. |
You have to sleep somewhere the night before you leave don't you so basically you do that on the ferry ..You get on the ferry at 5pm arrive 8:30am (european time )
I live in Sheffield its 220miles to dover and to do it in 4 hours and get an early ferry you would have to leave at 3am ...I usually stop with my daughter in london and leave at 7am to catch the 10am ferry but then I do have plenty of time as I'm retired ...I have used the Hull ferry ..its not cheap but its very convenient and saves me a 500 mile round trip but my friend has to be picked up in London . Also the cost is comparable to the outragously expensive Chunnel
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@DaveD, the Zeebrugge crossing from Hull is no longer available so you have to go to Rotterdam. That being the case the Newcastle to Ijmuden (Amsterdam) makes more sense if you are coming from further North. We have been experimenting with this. The cost varies considerably. It makes less sense coming back particularly in January when there is only one ferry every two days so if you miss it you are in real trouble. When we were working we used to drive back from Tignes in a one-er. Typically 23hrs to Glasgow, which was a bit stupid, but maximised leave. We now stop in northern France and get a morning ferry from Calais/Dunkirk. Ironically I used to live in Sheffield, when the Zebrugge ferry was available, but it made more sense to go via the Channel.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| DaveD wrote: |
| Also the cost is comparable to the outragously expensive Chunnel |
There are ferries across the Channel too, which are a lot cheaper than the Tunnel.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@rjs, How much is the Hull/Rotterdam ferry. I couldn't get the web page to work on my laptop. I assume you don't pay any extra for a cabin or do you just sleep in the lounge as I did in my younger days.
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@johnE, We go Hull Rotterdam EVERY time we go to Europe. A hop to Hull, nice meal on board, avoids Southern England and Dover. The return journey will save you just over 400kms from Manchester opposed to Dover. If going out on the Thursday night you can do a good stretch on the Friday, finish on the Saturday. We always book a civilised meal package, Breakfast and Dinner in The Brasserie. It all just makes for a more relaxed journey
You have to have a cabin and the return crossing is about £400 in winter. I find the beds quite comfy. Don't leave the door open when having a shower as it can set the fire alarm off 
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@Frosty the Snowman, Thanks for that. I can certainly appreciate avoiding southern England but I'm not entirely sure how it saves 400km from a trip to the French Alps. Isn't Rotterdam a few hundred km further away than Calais
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@johnE, Only 100km further (surprisingly), but Dover is 300km further than Hull from Man - 2 x 200km = 400Km for a return journey
Part of my job involves journey planning for trucks
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@Frosty the Snowman, After the demise of the Zeebruge route we used the Rotterdam ferry a couple of times. A trans -Pennine drive to Hull of about 70 miles. The issue for us was that our vehicle is classed as a van, even though it has 5 seats and side windows. P & O double the price because of this meaning it's well over £800 for a return crossing with meals and cabin.
Stena from Harwich on the super ferry was similar to car price. But may as well drive to the Channel ports from the north west.
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