 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Belch, you are funny old bird.
First off you give France a complete slating and then confess your next trip is to... France.
Then you say "just don't agree with self catering holidays full stop" but immediately after confess you've done several.
Maybe just be a bit circumspect about what works and what doesn't.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sorry @Belch, I took literally your statement that "even now" you had NEVER been on a sc holiday.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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In terms of TO's I've never done the Esprit thing and maybe they do wipe your arse and even your kids arse but TO's/Hotels/Chalets in general are not a panacea. Sometimes when things do wrong they come up short and you have to deal with it or would have been better off dealing with it yourself. Hell, sometimes, they even are the problem.
Do you research (which the OP is - wisely), make it your holiday and accept that things might not go to plan, be perfect.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| Sorry but without being snotty don't listen to the self catering nonsense - this is a fallacy; especially on a FIRST TIME ski holiday with kids. |
Load of rubbish.
Did self catering last year with kids ages 7 and 9 at Saalbach, first time with the kids. Gives a lot more flexibility that hotels do for young families with kids that can't just sit around a restaurant table for more than 15 mins without wanting to be elsewhere.
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And with dietary and picky eater requirements. Timings also at your leisure rather than being tied to set meal times.
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Our first two trips with out daughter were via TO (Crystal & Neilson) staying in hotels. It was nice having meals cooked etc, but we got frsutrated by fixed meal times that were a bit late for our then young (3 the first year) daughter and post meal, once she was in bed one of us was obviously then stuck in the hotel room for the evening whilst she was asleep. She's a bit older now (eight) but still needs her sleep.
We found with self catering we had much more flexibility, we can get back to the appt after a day skiing, relax, cook tea when we want to eat and then once she's asleep in another bedroom we can relax with a drink / sort out admin for the next day etc.
We flew into and from Chambery the first time, it was fine as it was late march and sunny, but being dropped off really early before the flight home with no room in the terminal so having to sit outside for a few hours on the grass was a bit of a concern. For us it was fine, the sun was out, we could have a picnic on the grass and sunbathe for a bit, but had it been raining I think we'd have been somewhat more grumpy.
We tend to just drive down now, all our stuff is in the car, if there is a problem with weather, traffic etc we can adapt and change plans and are not at the mercy of relying on others. Horses for courses though and I'm sure the OP will find what fits for them.
The OPs original post mentioned ADH as a resort they are looking at. I've already mentioned further up thread it worked really well for us as a family starting out. Our first trip we stayed with Neilson in ski in ski out just up from the bottom station of the Alpe Express lift, this was ideal as just a 50m slide down the hill then striaght up to the Ski School meet point at Bergers directly off the lift. The downside was the limitations of hotel mealtimes and being confined to your room with kids as above.
The last few trips, and the current Feb Half term trip we've booked, we've stayed in a self catering appt in Veil Alpe with another family with a mixed group. A short uphil walk to the Tourist info Telecentre/Alpe Express lift gives access to lifts that deliver straight to ski schools. The telecentre lift is slow, but the kids loved it as you traverse the village and get to see what's going on. Last year we hired a ski locker at the Alpe Express lift, the best EUR40 we've ever spent! A nice easy walk up the hill in trainers/snow boots without loads of kit, then all the faff of putting ski boots and skis etc in the comfort of a nice heated locker room, then a really easy walk to the lifts. Dragging kids around the resort in ski boots and carrying your skis and inevitably their skis is a faff that a ski locker definately solves.
Good luck and have lots of fun!
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Our first trips were to Andorra. Everyone knows the Spanish eat and sleep later than the English. As did we, so SC kept our toddlers to the usual sleep rhythm (if such can be said for toddlers!). Easier for us.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Amateur psychologist time - I'm not sure who said it on another thread but there are a LOT of inverted (s)nobs / sensitive types on here . . and a lot of people who don't actually read threads properly or understand nuance / humour. I'm sure they just scan and pick out the bits that rile or excite them . . . . . . .hilarious
@Layne, My turn to bite LOL - I've skied France multiple times in multiple resorts - and yes I'm a hypocrite as my lads trip (booked by others FYI) is indeed in Tignes, France. Not only did I overtly mention this (for truth and amusement value) but it still does not change my experience or views on French resorts / skiing in general. Does it make you feel better in that I'll have skied Zell / Saalbach twice before this trip?
Re self catering - again this statement was made in response to the OP and his/her situation - of course I've self catered but not with kids - it was crap then as it would be now IN MY OPINION. Don't get upset just because you like sauntering around in your undies, eating cornflakes for bfast and boring pasta bake with cheap plonk for dinner. My kids even when little behaved themselves and enjoyed eating out in restaurants / hotels / chalets; not my fault that others don't!
Apols and don't know your financials but I'd take the Pepsi challenge on the MAJORITY of people with young kids on a first time ski holiday would choose Esprit/Neilson over self catering EVERY time given the choice. . .
Happy Friday!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Layne, lol brilliant.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Why are you trying so terribly hard @Belch? Just thrashing around, attacking lots of people for no very obvious reason (e.g. telling me I am "in denial" about France  ), sounding very cross but declaring yourself "hilarious". Fortunately there have been plenty of helpful comments in response to the OP who said he thought he'd like to go to France, probably self-catering. Telling him that he'll have a terrible time unless he spends a fortune and be lucky to escape with the same number of kids and skis he started with.
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@Layne, Here some facts - you are clearly both a mood and humour vacuum and as previously stated; perhaps try READING and UNDERSTANDING English before you rant your way to next Xmas / bite so easily. This is a forum - its a place for OPINIONS. Its quite clear that you belong in Milton Keynes where 'mediocre' seems to be the way forward - sincere apols that both our outlook and humour don't align . . . . hilarious (  )
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
I'd take the Pepsi challenge
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OK now I find there is no vomit emoji on this forum.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@pam w, In truth probably because its Friday, I've done my commercials for the week and I'm bored. I'm not actually attacking anyone - in fairness I'm being attacked for having an opinion and being vaguely outspoken about it! If you read my first post it was pretty balanced - subsequent posts have either been posted in response to specifics or to just amuse myself . . .I'm not 'telling' anyone to do anything - just expressing an opinion based on my experiences and my outlook - its not my prob if some disagree; that's what forums should be about! The OP can make up his/her own mind as stated . . . . . .
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Pyramus, YAWN - nothing like getting your post count up!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Its quite clear that you belong in Milton Keynes where 'mediocre' seems to be the way forward
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And you claim you are not attacking anyone? And that this stuff is funny?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Belch, I agree your first post was pretty balanced (we'll let the fact there are English-speaking ski schools in France pass). However within hours after just a couple of other messages you post again with "Sorry but without being snotty don't listen to the self catering nonsense - this is a fallacy" and all this France is the wild west stuff. And then you get a bit SHOUTY. It went downhill from there really.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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And your "balanced" first post suggested, inter alia, that Obergurgl was the only resort which would fit the bill and that there were no instructors in France who spoke fluent English. Both statements presumably illustrative of your legendary sense of humour.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Layne, @pam w, You guys are VERY hard work (Pam you are usually relatively balanced in fairness). . . .do you actually exist in the real world?
Without getting shot down in flames (again) you must be both on the spectrum somewhere; EVERYTHING seems to be taken so literally its actually excruciatingly uncomfortable . . .perhaps if we met in person it might be different; nuance is something a lot struggle with . . . . 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yawn
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Ditto
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@johnE,
| Quote: |
| Even the tiniest studio is usually bigger than most hotel rooms. |
Clearly you've not been over the ridge and stayed in Arc 2000!
Our apartment (Arc1950) is for 6, so when myself and daughter wanted a cheeky 4 days, it was going to cost a lot ( we lease it out and 'buy' back our owners weeks).
So we did AirBnB up the hill.
Cat-swinging was not an option. Even mice would have been severely compromised - and that was allegedly an apartment for 4. A Premiere Inn would have had similar square meterage - and without the need for storing boots AND skis by the front door.
@Dpetchey welcome to Snowheads: where the nuggets are often buried in the usual banter. BUT there are indeed nuggets, and most people are genuinely trying to help. And whatever you do, dont apologize for being a newbie. We all had to start somewhere. To summarise:
1) There are catering options. We've done Chalets , S/C and hotels. Every option has its plusses and minuses. Every family is different.
2) Ski in /out is a key thing for 1st timers. But as per Rob@rar there are differences, and EASY access to skis-school with limited faff is key (and also allows for swift situational retrieval from the inevitable 'oops, I forgot my..." moments)
3) France is not the only place. But it's pretty damn good, so if you are comfortable and familiar with it, then ideal for first time. Spread your wings later if you want. Or don't.
4) First time? - package is the right approach. There's a lot to consider, and we old hands tend to become blase about the stress of being responsible for 4 peoples' enjoyment.
Which depends on: travel+transfers+accommodation+meals+lift-passes+kit+ski-school+insurance+evening-entertainment, all working together in harmony, Let alone fitness, learning a new sport, the cold, (other weather is available - but there are no guarantees) the language and the risks. Mitigate what you can by letting someone else worry about the basics, at least first time out.
5) Never forget it IS a holiday, it IS about fun, and it IS an expensive, addictive, life affirming, glorious, unbelievably fabulous, way to spend a week or two every year in some of the most fantastic natural landscapes.
Just be prepared to strap yourself in for the rest of your life.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Arctic Roll, You are right I've never rented an apartment "over the ridge", but I've stayed in lots of hotel rooms, most of which just about have room for a one or two beds and, if you are lucky, a tiny table and two chairs. Like apartments I tend to stay in the least expensive hotels.
One thing people forget about the cost of ski holidays is that you almost always end up paying that amount every year for the rest of your life.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@JohnS4, thank heavens for some sanity! Love 'Gurgl - good for experienced skiers as well and v safe / stressfree. Hotels pricey however; as is horse riding for the kids!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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These guys are going skiing at a terrific time - about the best of the season, really. There are literally hundreds of resorts which would suit them, but one with a wide choice of self-catering accommodation (rather than hotels) would be ideal for them. I never suggested that Obergurgl was NOT a good place to learn, just that it was unbalanced to suggest it was the ONLY place which ticked all the boxes for someone wanting to go to France, in self-catering accommodation.
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We were in a similar position last year. First ski holiday with teenager. Went with Crystal ski to Passo Tonale in Italy after recommendation from family. First week March. Went for a package as didn't want to think about transfers/ski hire/school when we had no experience.
All worked well. Relatively cheap, good instructors, friendly locals, Italian food. Resort good for beginners. Apparently not pretty compared to some but if you're not used to snow/mountains it still looks pretty good! Off to Arinsal this March.
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks everyone that’s contributed! It’s all really appreciated even if some reply’s were more helpful than others!
Ultimately we will stick with self catering for flexibility and basically it’s what we’re used to when away in the caravan. Also if the kids need an early night we can chill with a glass or two of something nice for the evening in the apartment.
It doesn’t have to be France but we are very familiar with France so will stick with for this first time, and who knows where next if we love it!
I will definitely try to find accommodation close to the ski school meeting points/lifts. Ideally ski in/out but appreciate it’s probably a bit late booking for the best apartments.
You’ve made some great suggestions for other destinations in France which we will definitely look at and ultimately go with the one that ticks the most boxes according to the accommodation available.
Please do keep up with suggestions and advice/tips for clothing, things to take etc.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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The important thing about location is having an easy, short, walk to and from the ski school meeting place. Absolute beginners can't manage a chair lift, let alone a drag, but a gondola would be doable. The next question, of course, is "where is the ski school meeting place?". All but the smallest resorts will have several (Les Saisies, a small resort, has half a dozen) so booking up ski lessons is probably the second action after choosing a resort and ascertaining that there is suitable accommodation available. If you have a few accommodation possibilities in mind, you could do worse than talk to the ski school(s) about location.
I know I'm making a big production about this, but it really will make a difference.
Snowheads might well have useful recommendations about ski schools. They are not all created equal.
The ski school can also advise what ski passes you will need.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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A brave decision, @Dpetchey, and one that guarantees your holiday won't be spoilt by some bore of a chalet guest who makes ridiculously sweeping statements! Now on to the nitty gritty! I took my two boys skiing when they were little, and I can't stress highly enough the benefit of having a written check list at the door of your accommodation. Everyone has to read, check and confirm they've got everything before leaving. Getting to the snow and finding you haven't got e.g. sunglasses or lift pass is not only a pain, but could mean a missed lesson. So the list is this:
Ski pass
Wallet
Phone
Helmet
Gloves
Scarf/neckwarmer
Sunglasses and/or goggles
Sun cream
Chapstick with sunscreen
Tissues
Paracetamol & Ibuprofen
Water
Jacket!
and of course if you're keeping your kit in apt,
Skis and poles. Or board!
I've probably forgotten something crucial (I did) which just goes to show how crucial this is.
Good luck with it all, and don't forget to tell them to enjoy it while you're treating them because SKI actually stands for Spending Kids' Inheritance  ️
+1 for getting the largest place possible (will really help with the morning faff)
and + 1 for hiring a ski locker and boot storage near the slopes if your accom is more than, say, 5-10 mins walk away.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sat 13-01-24 12:59; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Dpetchey wrote: |
| Ideally ski in/out but appreciate it’s probably a bit late booking for the best apartments. |
It's most definitely not. Once the French school holidays are over you can still find well situated apartments up to last minute. I've booked as little as 3 days before. Not that I would leave it that late generally but you get the picture.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Well done for dealing with this thread!!
Ok I have tried to re-read and check the criteria we have been given.
You would like to fly
Self catering
Beginner/child friendly
9th March
Ideally France
100% understand the self catering, but remember flying means you don’t have your usual stuff, you may manage a few bags and dry ingredients, but you are working with whatever the apartment has in terms of kitchen utensils. Invariably they are crap and no sharp knives!! Also towels and sheets, you’ll need to hire. And again, can be of terrible quality. (Last year were disposable ones, we hadn’t considered that) - not that these things are impossible to overcome but as an experienced skier I was caught out with a ‘mid level’ apartment.
Next to consider is transfer times and journey AdH is a great resort for newbies, but 21 hairpins in a swingy coach - the esprit rep called the journey the vomit comet. And they were right.
French resorts can be further than you think. I’d try to look at less than 2 hours transfer.
Hence, if you are flying, other countries are indeed possible, but tbh I’ve only ever skied in France!!
As for resort, I’m not the person because we were skiers when we took our kids, so our choice of resort was determined by our needs. The kids were in lessons so we assumed they would learn anywhere.
But a smaller resort would be cheaper as all 4 in ski school I presume.
Top tips are to study the apartment inside and out, size, sheets, sharp knives. Closeness of supermarket as that cheap plonk needs buying and lugging home. And closeness of pizza (or other low key restaurant)
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@Jude1, I'd deffo add Ibuprofen (painkillers) to the list. Never used to carry these myself but won't forget a time an English lady hobbled in to a restaurant high on the piste in pain and without pills - bar staff couldn't give her anything and I felt terrible. We now carry pills for ourselves and for others.
On a different note, I'm glad this thread has gotten back on piste.....reading through some of the comments last night having had a few at the local pub quiz, there were a few jaw drop moments at some of the comments. Look, we're all nice people who want to share and help (and want help!) and we all have different views of how we do things - and obviously different budgets! But let's not make it personal eh? Really helps no-one at the end of the day and this really is the essence of what this forum is for. Thanks
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@Cacciatore, Thanks for the welcome message after my post. Very thoughtful and nice to have a bit of feedback. I've been lurking and getting some useful information so thought I should contribute. Will try to get the right country next time though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@smatty, as an aside to the main topic (and apologies to the OP), Arinsal is a pleasant town and generally easy to get to the main gondola up to the ski station. If you want to avoid lugging gear to the valley station (and back at the end of the day), there are plenty of lockers at the gondola ski station that one can hire. I guess it all depends on how far from the valley gondola station you’re staying.
Fingers crossed that the cable car to Pal is operating (it does close when the wind gets up). If it is, that’s a nice place to ski and perfect for beginner-intermediate. I have fond memories skiing there at first lift. Blue sky, 5cm of fresh overnight snow on top of perfectly groomed pistes. Didn’t really see a sole for an hour, fresh tracks on pristine slopes. Heaven 
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@Lucywuk, some good points there. I'd missed the post where the OP said they would be flying. I've never done a flying and self-catering trip but certainly lower-budget accommodation will not provide linen and the knives won't be sharp. At Christmas the agency dealing with the apartment (where we picked up the keys) dealt with linen - we'd hired. They also had "disposable" stuff but that wasn't supposed to be instead of linen, but if we were really fuss and wanted a disposable pillow case under the linen. The linen was in the apartment when we arrived, in a huge professional laundry carrier. It was beautiful, to be fair, and beautifully ironed and folded. Real luxury compared to the stuff I throw straight back on the bed once it's dry! Some of the pillows were crap though - filled with great chunks of foam. Knowing about French pillows, we'd taken our own..... I hate foam pillows, even good quality ones.
Because we were driving we took a lot of stuff - all the tea, coffee, stock cubes, salt and pepper, oils etc that we'd be needing, a couple of cottage pies for the first night's supper, gin, tonics, toilet rolls, small chocolate bars, dishwasher tablets, enough plain flour to make a batch of apres ski pancakes, you name it. Between my daughter and I we didn't forget anything vital and whilst the supermarket was just down the road (as was the ski hire shop) humping shopping around is a pain. The "rules" of the apartment required that we throw out ALL foodstuffs when we leave, whereas sometimes you can hope to find some cooking oil, salt and pepper, etc.
Despite have been so passionate in defending self-catering holidays, I would hesitate to recommend flying to a first holiday self-catering (if they go with a tour operator, of course, transfers will be taken care of) for the reasons you set out. Before we had our own apartment our choice was always catered chalets (what Belch called "slumming it"  ) Quality (and cost) varied, but we always enjoyed it. Unfortunately there are far fewer catered chalets these days. But they do exist and are well worth considering. "Le Ski" chalets come highly recommended here - my OH and I stayed in one in Courchevel many moons ago, without kids, and booked at a discount at last minute. Back in the day we had kids in tow we went to lower budget places!
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FAQ
