 Poster: A snowHead
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I completely agree with the overall consensus here, but having looked at the OP's video, it seems to me that in this instance, both these skiers were aiming for the same little jump. While the lower skier looks a bit hesitant, I think it's because of his intention - there was no problem with the way he skied away and he was clearly not a beginner. A POV video distorts what is happening relative to it.
It's not clear to me that the lower skier could/should have checked that his intended route was clear, even though it might well have been prudent to do so (even though he wasn't actually traversing and it was his "right of way"), and I don't think this exonerates the higher skier in any way, who was responsible for ensuring that it was 100% safe to complete his manoeuvre.
As for the thread title, he could of [sic] checked his grammar. Ow, that was painful to type... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| motyl wrote: |
| As for the thread title, he could of [sic] checked his grammar. Ow, that was painful to type... |
I think that was all part of the wind up - glaring error in the title, glaring error in the knowledge about skiing. Pyramus isn't subtle, but has done well to wind everyone up. We really shouldn't carry on feeding the troll TBH.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You’re probably right. But I genuinely find POV videos interesting, and the discussions they engender, particularly in the topic of skiing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| eblunt wrote: |
| I think that was all part of the wind up - glaring error in the title, glaring error in the knowledge about skiing. Pyramus isn't subtle, but has done well to wind everyone up. We really shouldn't carry on feeding the troll TBH. |
Dude, chill. This isn't about "knowledge about skiing". I have a genuinely held belief that the rules should allow for the fact that downhill skiers can actually be at fault, and they should have some responsibility for skiing safely and not absolve them from all responsibility by effectively allowing them to make whatever crazy manoeuvres they feel like. Granted, this example is not the clearest case but it doesn't take much imagination to see how this could have played out differently. If you don't like that opinion, don't try to "cancel" it by calling people trolls.
PS. I fixed the grammar 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For whatever reason (no eyes in back of head or deafness), a skier below you is not at fault if you crash into them, just as a driver in a car is not responsible for a rear end shunt if you hit them from behind. I agree they should still be skiing safely, but they also should be concentrating on the skiers below them and not constantly looking behind them for idiots likely to ski into them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Pyramus, The "troll" accusation is because people can't believe that you are serious about this.
Maybe time to fall on your sword.
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@Pyramus, you seem to be assuming that the downhill skier has the skills and experience to ski in the way you think they should. The FIS rules allow for this not being the case.
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@Pyramus, and Thisbe the time to bow out gracefully.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| @Pyramus, you seem to be assuming that the downhill skier has the skills and experience to ski in the way you think they should. The FIS rules allow for this not being the case. |
Conversely, the FIS rules also allow for experienced skiers acting like prats and never being at fault.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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my question is : why they are skiing too fast? this is a beginner slope i suppose. At least thats can someone think from the video.
What the hXXX are they trying to do? race?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Maybe it’s time this thread was closed…
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@puddingdo, nah, there's a good 4 pages more of this
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You know it makes sense.
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Downhill skier is snaking wildly with zero awareness of those to the side of him.
Uphill skier is drifting along in a bubble with zero understanding of those in front of him.
Both at fault -- 50/50.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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This thread conflates 2 issues/arguments, ie skiing (and assigning fault) according to the FIS rules, which are written, versus guidelines for skiing defensively (to reduce risk of being hurt), which are not codified, but usually learned by experience (and often pain). It is thus in many aspects of life, ie the law says one thing, but prudence suggests some different course of action.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| eblunt wrote: |
| I think that was all part of the wind up - glaring error in the title, glaring error in the knowledge about skiing. Pyramus isn't subtle, but has done well to wind everyone up. We really shouldn't carry on feeding the troll TBH. |
Dude, chill. This isn't about "knowledge about skiing". I have a genuinely held belief that the rules should allow for the fact that downhill skiers can actually be at fault, and they should have some responsibility for skiing safely and not absolve them from all responsibility by effectively allowing them to make whatever crazy manoeuvres they feel like. Granted, this example is not the clearest case but it doesn't take much imagination to see how this could have played out differently. If you don't like that opinion, don't try to "cancel" it by calling people trolls.
PS. I fixed the grammar |
Calm down sweetie. Whilst it's satisfying to see you have snap at the return bait, you need to quit while you're ahead when you've netted a good haul with a load of complete tosh. You've sort of let yourself down trying to get embroiled in an argument that everyone clearly knows is rubbish ( including yourself I suspect ).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Belch wrote: |
| make him aware (eg shouting on your left / on your right) prior to passing at an appropriate point. . . . . |
How do you know what nationality the person in front is? Oh, yeah, of course shouting in English means everyone in the world understands you  .
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@maggi, so did I
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| maggi wrote: |
| Belch wrote: |
| make him aware (eg shouting on your left / on your right) prior to passing at an appropriate point. . . . . |
How do you know what nationality the person in front is? Oh, yeah, of course shouting in English means everyone in the world understands you . |
Maybe he's learned how to say left and right in various languages? I have been known, if I'm overtaking someone on a path, to say which side I'm coming up on. If so, I'll say it in the language of the country I'm in.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
If so, I'll say it in the language of the country I'm in.
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I always say it in French. It works as a catch-all in France which is where I've ridden mostly in recent years, and also elsewhere as then people blame the French for whatever catastrophe I may have caused.
Pardonez moi!
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@Hurtle, I'm not sure. I think your average nervous beginner*, hearing someone approaching, then hearing them shouting anything in a language other than their own, will be so preoccupied in translating it in their head, (Gauche? Links? Sinistra? Yes! I recognise that word! But the rest of it? Are they coming on the left or telling me to move to the left? Eeek!) then what happens next will be anyone's guess.
* and me.
And if anyone's telling me to move left or right, and that's the side where the sheer drop is, they can do one  .
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@maggi, you're not describing what I (extremely rarely) do. But you know that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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That's not an accident. I've seen way more closer calls!
Anyway, I have no idea how you could "blame" anyone other than the uphill skier. You just need to assume that skiers below you don't see you or will move about haphazardly.
I've taken to signaling by pointing when I'm going to divert from my line on a cat track or traverse.
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I have now watched the video and it looks much better backwards.
Sometimes I watch those dashcam videos you see on Youtube where they show bad driving and wonder why someone would want to post their own bad driving on the internet. I have the same feeling about this video. Why did the poster post their own bad skiing?
The empty piste as well. No collision occured apart from a tiny touch of skis
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Pyramus, You're just another example of the ME generation. Trying to blame someone else for your errors. IF the skier at the back had A. any common sense, B. enough skill, there would not have been an issue. There is NEVER a time when the downhill skier is at fault. It is ALWAYS the uphill skiers responsibility to avoid any kind of collision.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I can’t be the only one thinking that @Pyramus, is the skier wearing the helmet cam, and has come on here seeking justification for his ignorance. Thankfully, most of the  on here are aware of the rules and can clearly see that the uphill guy is 100% at fault.
For anyone usure, here is an idiots guide…. The second bullet point being the pertinent one in this case.
https://pistexcode.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Piste-X-Code-ENG-Poster.pdf
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@Timmycb5, Personally I think that @Pyramus, has come on to purely get a reaction by arguing a point so laughably wrong. It's successfully got the craved for attention though, so fair play.
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You know it makes sense.
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In answer to the thread title.....The Mother of the OP
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| @Pyramus, You're just another example of the ME generation. Trying to blame someone else for your errors. IF the skier at the back had A. any common sense, B. enough skill, there would not have been an issue. There is NEVER a time when the downhill skier is at fault. It is ALWAYS the uphill skiers responsibility to avoid any kind of collision. |
It should be pointed out that the definitiveness of this and other replies, particular the bold never, is not always completely true. There are circumstances in which the downhill skier may also be apportioned some, or potentially all, of the blame, especially if they're also breaking a FIS rule like starting out into moving traffic without looking. Remember, rule 1 says "A skier or snowboarder must behave in such a way that he does not endanger or prejudice others."
But in this case, and most in general, the answer is clear, yes the uphill skier here had absolutely no right to expect the guy in front to ... well, to do anything at all, TBH. In a relatively confined area like that he should absolutely have been able to stop and avoid an accident whatever the downhill skier did.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Shouting has no place on a big wide empty piste, except to shout something rude at someone who passes so unnecessarily close. If unsure about language, I'd suggest "stupid fucker" wii be almost universally understood.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
| If unsure about language, I'd suggest "stupid fucker" wii be almost universally understood. |
Are we still on the piste here, or for snowheads discussions generally?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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All this reaffirms my decision to ski mostly off-piste.
Regardless of blame, this incident could have easily resulted in a trip to the hospital.
On-piste too many people ski much faster than their ability should allow, with little or no regard for their fellow skiers, or the rules of the road.
Last year my wife spent 4 days in hospital with two bleeds on the brain after being taken out by an out-of-control idiot. This was while she was station in a 'safe' place. Right on the edge of a blue run.
The problem is exacerbated by resorts stuffing as many punters on the mountain as possible, not patrolling effectively, and grooming/flattening every run so much that it's easy to ski totally out of control.
I have no way I can personally improve this situation, so the logical solution is to remove it.
Off-piste, at least the trees don't move.
Counterintuitively it's a lot safer, and frankly a lot more fun...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Shouting has no place on a big wide empty piste, except to shout something rude at someone who passes so unnecessarily close. If unsure about language, I'd suggest "stupid fucker" wii be almost universally understood. |
Harsh but fair . . .!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I have skied mostly on piste for over 30 years and seen few incidents. But I've avoided the busiest times. Anyone skiing at New Year or half term does run greater risks.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I have skied mostly on piste for over 30 years and seen few incidents. But I've avoided the busiest times. Anyone skiing at New Year or half term does run greater risks. |
Definitely a sensible approach Pam.
I think I may have been unfortunate enough to see more carnage than you.
I have really avoided pistes due to my own psychology.
I am not as relaxed when on-piste as I am super sensitive to potential situations similar to the one in the video from the OP.
That somewhat damages my skiing experience.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I have skied mostly on piste for over 30 years and seen few incidents. But I've avoided the busiest times. Anyone skiing at New Year or half term does run greater risks. |
Agree with this (the euro school calendar is invaluable when booking). . . most of my trips these days are midweek to midweek Thurs / Fri arrivals which means I can make the most of the pistes on Saturdays (transfer day).
I'll always avoid busy cross-over points / home runs / narrow tracks / easy popular blues wherever possible and generally ski from first lifts to a late lunch to maximise any available quiet periods. More than happy to take a gondola down for an early beer and watch the carnage unfold 50ft below me than risk a slalom run of kids and wannabe eejits at the end of the day. . . 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yeah that calendar is the bomb, props again for the SH that prepares it every year. Easily the most helpful things on here.
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| @Pyramus, You're just another example of the ME generation. Trying to blame someone else for your errors. IF the skier at the back had A. any common sense, B. enough skill, there would not have been an issue. There is NEVER a time when the downhill skier is at fault. It is ALWAYS the uphill skiers responsibility to avoid any kind of collision. |
Actually, I was think a scenario when there is a small rise/hill in the piste, preceded by a big downhill bit, enabling you to build up enough speed to get up the hill on the other side of the dip. Applying the rules literally means that technically someone on the rise ahead of you is in the wrong if you run into the back of them.
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FAQ
