 Poster: A snowHead
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| Extremophile wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
| Extremophile wrote: |
Ok, so you dont class yourself as a denier, but you are clearly in denial about that.
The singularity, which often gets talked about in A.I. Or nuclear war Conversations, isnt strictly limit to A.I. Or nuclear war - It is any event from which there is no escape, unfortunately you dont always know you’ve passed the point of no return, and climate change is the prime example.
Nothing vast comes into existence without a curse.
I suppose that by the time the climate does become so unstable it is unable to support our current civilisation most of the climate deniers and those in denial about being deniers will have died content that they were right simply because they didnt live through what is to come.
I do agree that pretty much all the worlds problems are solved by having a smaller population, but when overpopulation is bought up someone always starts behaving like you’re about to commit genocide. |
I'm a questioner
However YOU interpret and label that is YOUR perogative and choice of nomenclature
I was extremely sceptical of the complex mathematical modeling, the forecast, the science, and actions behind COVID-19 and this has made me less likely to just accept what I'm spoonfed by MSM with regards to Climate Change |
I didnt direct my answer at you per se, plenty of people on here claim to be skeptics and questioners etc etc even though the scientific evidence is all there. My statement is directed at each and every one of them, whether you feel the need to defend yourself against being in denial is your prerogative… some might say the lady doth protest too much. If you questions have answers that dont support already held beliefs of something then looking for ‘answers’ that do support certain beliefs is confirmation bias. Dont look at media, read the science for yourself. |
Are you a lawyer and/or a politician?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@skimastaaah, I’m with you on over population but your domesday scenarios about alpine resorts like Tignes are a bit wide of the mark. The glaciated part of the Tignes Val D’Isere area is less than10 % of the area (as a rough guess). Likewise the water supply does not rely on the glacier. Tignes requires about 1m cubic metres of water for human consumption and 500k for snowmaking (which is recycled as water at the end of the season). About 95 M3 of water falls on the Tignes commune each year according to the ‘Water Board’. The Lac du Chevril holds 235m M3. So I don’t think we will have a water shortage, the natural storage in the Lac de Tignes would probably cover it.
Floods from proglacial lakes have been happening for ever, monitoring is improving (action is taking place now to release one near the site of the Rosolin lift). So yes you could have a release but I can’t see anything catastrophic happening. Rockfalls due to the breakdown of permafrost are more of a danger depending on the geography of infrastructure IMHO.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Peter S wrote: |
Fascinating. Turns out that the UK is mild because it’s on the wrong side of the Atlantic and is exposed to predominantly warm air masses importing sub tropical warmth. Switching off the Gulf Stream would then make little difference.
But would that not also disrupt the jet stream leading to longer periods when the Uk is exposed to cooler air from the north and east? Albeit the artic and continental air is never particularly cold these days. |
Unless there has been a significant reinterpretation or new evidence, the impact on average annual temperatures may not be that great for the British Isles from collapsing AMOC, but the climate impacts as evidenced during the Loch Lomond Stadial were significant with glaciers reforming and readvancing in Highland Scotland. Colder with more precipitation in winters, warmer drier summers, a much more continental climate, means annual average temperatures not vastly changed, but with less rain, less cloud and less wind, summer ablation can reduce despite warmer temperatures.
Proper seasons instead of perpetual autumn! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If I see some litter on the streets, I don't just think fck it there is no point in taking mine home. If democracy is being subverted ignored in country abc it doesn't stop me worrying about how things are going in the UK. If I read or witness racist or misogynostic behaviour I am not surprised, I know of it's existent but I still try to do my bit to eliminate it and support activists who try to do something about it.
A lot of things about climate change and environmental protection to me are just things that seem sensible and I want to do anyway. Start with car useage. In the first place it's beneficial for me to eliminate short journeys by cycling and walking for health, cost and well being reasons. It's beneficial for me to use public transport because (if it is efficient) it's less stressful and I can do other things. If it's more logical for me to use a car then using one that doesn't pollute the air (that my family, friends, colleagues breathe), one that is quiet, one that uses minimal resources, is something I would want to do.
Fatalism and cynicism needs to be overcome. It's more than just about climate change anyway.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Yes, I'd heard that on the news. Not sure how it changes things. There is consensus amongst climate scientists that the present extent of wildfires could not have happened without human-induced climate change. |
If a human starts a fire how is that due to climate change ? Some stupid clever people decided a few years ago to allow various moors round the UK to grow withour human input, the idea was it would help carbon release by the plants absorbing CO2 this resulted in huge amounts of dead plant material which became a huge fire risk which of course happened and killed huge numbers of wildlife, those who had made their living on the moors said this would happen but were told they didnt know what they were talking about , those natives of the moor always did areas of controlled burns during the late winter, its called swalling and encourages new growth but in small areas rather that huge areas on uncontroable areas. all these clever idiots should let those who have lived and worked on the land for generations decide what to do they are the experts
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This whole bit of publicity sounds to me like a troll funded by the oil industry to confuse things. Sure the idea of the possible ending of the Gulf Stream was mooted as a possibility many years ago, but the effect of the Gulf Stream has always been put forward as the explanation of why the UK is warmer than similar latitudes in Europe. Europe wouldn't be affected by it stopping, UK would just become more like Europe.
The Greenhouse effect is just a known fact of physics, it is the main reason Venus is so enormously hot (Venus being nearer the sun is a smaller reason). It is not as though this is disputed by anyone. It now looks like variations in CO2 levels (both up and down) have caused the huge disasters in earth's early history that wiped out most of life. I don't know why some people somehow think it won't apply here and now as we increase CO2 levels.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Every century has its attention-seeking apocalyptic doomsday cult.
1600s was witches. 1800s was food. 1900s was nukes. 2000s is the weather.
The human population today is in excellent shape. Record numbers, life expectancy, and health.
Humans have never been better off.
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And I suppose you have spent your life studying the huge mass of data on climate have you? Those who have, say you are wrong.
I know I haven't so I'm not going to argue the case.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66387537 Probably not great news for this season. Even if we get the right synoptics the airstreams from the North Atlantic, Arctic and continent are likely to be warmer than average. Altitude will help of course but if we get the wrong set up like last year it could be a late start.
The jet stream has also been stuck to the south of the Uk putting us on the cooler side but the temperatures even here have been unusually warm for a northerly flow. It’s not hard to imagine the jet getting stuck north of the Uk this winter putting us under a constant stream of wet and windy Atlantic depressions.
……..Or maybe because things are so messed up this year we will get something really unusual…..which brings us back to the North Atlantic Drift ?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@robs1, good point
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| snowball wrote: |
And I suppose you have spent your life studying the huge mass of data on climate have you? Those who have, say you are wrong.
I know I haven't so I'm not going to argue the case. |
what huge mass? it is a small amount of data compared to the age of the planet
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You know it makes sense.
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| Peter S wrote: |
| but the temperatures even here have been unusually warm for a northerly flow. |
Then why have I considered putting the heating on a few time the last few weeks?
It is not warm at all.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Gored wrote: |
| Peter S wrote: |
| but the temperatures even here have been unusually warm for a northerly flow. |
Then why have I considered putting the heating on a few time the last few weeks?
It is not warm at all. |
all you’re are doing is proving you can’t debate with stupid.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Extremophile wrote: |
| Gored wrote: |
| Peter S wrote: |
| but the temperatures even here have been unusually warm for a northerly flow. |
Then why have I considered putting the heating on a few time the last few weeks?
It is not warm at all. |
all you’re are doing is proving you can’t debate with stupid. |
have you been outdoors?
its looking grim on the berry bushes. We have had to put more food out. Even the squirrels have taken to eating the neighbours sour apples from a fruit tree.
One positive is that the knotweed has not sprouted as much. I keep a close eye on encroachment for that weed.
I have used the air-con unit twice this summer, because it has not been warm.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Gored wrote: |
| Extremophile wrote: |
| Gored wrote: |
| Peter S wrote: |
| but the temperatures even here have been unusually warm for a northerly flow. |
Then why have I considered putting the heating on a few time the last few weeks?
It is not warm at all. |
all you’re are doing is proving you can’t debate with stupid. |
have you been outdoors?
its looking grim on the berry bushes. We have had to put more food out. Even the squirrels have taken to eating the neighbours sour apples from a fruit tree.
One positive is that the knotweed has not sprouted as much. I keep a close eye on encroachment for that weed.
I have used the air-con unit twice this summer, because it has not been warm. |
Ah yes, here we have a prime example of choosing to ignore the global climate trend because the weather in your immediate area is doing something a little bit different.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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To be clear:
I don't agree with @Gored, but I do think it is perfectly reasonable to not subscribe to Climate Doomsday Cult while at the same time acknowledging the evidence of Climate Change.
Mankind lives, and thrives, in the Polar regions, the Sahara Desert, the PNG jungles, the African Savanah and the temperate regions.
Will everything be the same?
No.
During documented, and well understood, history there have been hot/cold climate cycles and the world didn't end and Mankind then had nothing like the science and technology that we have today to ameliorate those challenges.
We are adaptable, we will adapt, nature will adapt....changed from what we have today to some degree.
In the meantime let's do our (reasonable) best to reduce the global litter of pollution and waste for the benefit of all.
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| rungsp wrote: |
To be clear:
I don't agree with @Gored, but I do think it is perfectly reasonable to not subscribe to Climate Doomsday Cult while at the same time acknowledging the evidence of Climate Change.
Mankind lives, and thrives, in the Polar regions, the Sahara Desert, the PNG jungles, the African Savanah and the temperate regions.
Will everything be the same?
No.
During documented, and well understood, history there have been hot/cold climate cycles and the world didn't end and Mankind then had nothing like the science and technology that we have today to ameliorate those challenges.
We are adaptable, we will adapt, nature will adapt....changed from what we have today to some degree.
In the meantime let's do our (reasonable) best to reduce the global litter of pollution and waste for the benefit of all. |
It’s not about whether mankind can adapt - no one is saying that humans will go extinct. The idea that 8 billion people and our modern society can survive an unstable is climate is highly unlikely, but i suppose as long as you’re either dead before it begins, or you’re one of those people who have the unshakeable faith they will survive simply because they have some money and a nice car is all that matter right?
Plus, you have so much faith that science and technology will save us, yet the science has been ignored for decades and the technology that could save us (carbon capture etc) has been underinvested in because it would mean admitting there is a problem with the way things are and oil giants dont want that.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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No, I have faith that the science that has led to enormous advances in medicine, nutrition and even energy will, when combined with technology, enable life to continue all over our planet without enormous difficulties (though changed).
You only have to look at agriculture to see what I am talking about:
Massive yield increases from the same underlying crop types. Vitamin D in so called Golden Rice that has largely cured childhood blindness in many countries.
The list is long and a cause for optimism not pessimism.
In my lifetime I can easily remember terrible, really terrible, starvation events in far flung places.
Those are happily behind us, I doubt ever to be seen again.
Of course there is hunger, bad hunger, and still starvation...but nothing like the scale of the quite recent past. There is still a lot to be done.
Why?
Agricultural changes...from science.
BTW I strongly object to your assumption of "I'm alright Jack" to my opinion.
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@rungsp, I think @Extremophile’s views have a clue in his/her name
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I see the climate change denial campaign as an example of a cargo cult.
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Maybe its part of the plan for us to extinct ourselves. The soon the better if we're all being honest about it. We've damaged, pillaged and abused the earth. Everyone talks about it but doesnt really do much. Another angle maybe the deniers are better people than the believers. The deniers genuinly dont believe theres an issue the belivers genuinely think theres an issue but still carry on consuming/travelling/enduldging and pretending to care
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rjs wrote: |
| I see the climate change denial campaign as an example of a cargo cult. |
Every day is a school day
I don't think you think what it means
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| Mother hucker wrote: |
| Maybe its part of the plan for us to extinct ourselves. The soon the better if we're all being honest about it. We've damaged, pillaged and abused the earth. Everyone talks about it but doesnt really do much. Another angle maybe the deniers are better people than the believers. The deniers genuinly dont believe theres an issue the belivers genuinely think theres an issue but still carry on consuming/travelling/enduldging and pretending to care |
This
It's becoming a pesudo fanatical religion based on Catholicism where a couple of offset payments absolve the action
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Gordyjh wrote: |
| @rungsp, I think @Extremophile’s views have a clue in his/her name |
Depends what you class an extreme environment in which it is difficult to survive… seems like an ideal name for the internet.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rungsp wrote: |
No, I have faith that the science that has led to enormous advances in medicine, nutrition and even energy will, when combined with technology, enable life to continue all over our planet without enormous difficulties (though changed).
You only have to look at agriculture to see what I am talking about:
Massive yield increases from the same underlying crop types. Vitamin D in so called Golden Rice that has largely cured childhood blindness in many countries.
The list is long and a cause for optimism not pessimism.
In my lifetime I can easily remember terrible, really terrible, starvation events in far flung places.
Those are happily behind us, I doubt ever to be seen again.
Of course there is hunger, bad hunger, and still starvation...but nothing like the scale of the quite recent past. There is still a lot to be done.
Why?
Agricultural changes...from science.
BTW I strongly object to your assumption of "I'm alright Jack" to my opinion. |
Yield increases due to use/overuse of nitrogen and phosphorous fertilisers which enter the water and disrupt the ecosystem - this is called eutrophication.
Converting large swathes if land to farm land, The uk has lost 97% meadow lands since ww2, that meadow land supported a vast array of species, hence the decrease in insect numbers, and resultant impact on mammalian species etc… science tells us this rate of loss is unsustainable and it is nearly impossible to path every impact these losses will have on the wider ecosystem. But as long as you’ve got food on you table it’s fine right?
Famine still exists in several African countries, if you take the time to look. Just because Live Aid isn't telling you about it doesn't mean it’s not there. There is famine in North Korea too.
Medical advances are great, reducing infant mortality and prolonging the life of people long beyond what would be sustainable without… which vastly contributes to overpopulation when we dont implement some form of responsible and sustainable population management.
Many people are I’m alright jack, trouble is they dont always know it, because the im alright jacks are usually the very comfortable with nothing to worry about, so choose not to see the truth of the reality they ignore, or attempt to justify their position with a faux intellectual argument that when reduced to it’s most basic reads as ‘everything is fine’.
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| Mother hucker wrote: |
| Everyone talks about it but doesnt really do much. |
Some people would have you believe that (maybe it keeps their conscience clear) but generally I do not believe that is true. On an individual level most people I know are aware and in various ways try to modify their life - perhaps they turn the heating down, buy less clothes, try to walk/cycle rather than drive, etc. etc. But also there are things being done on a larger scales. Such as in shipping. As the article discusses not everything is fully worked out or necessarily perfect and it requires some bravery by Governments/Companies but the possibilities/targets are well within reach.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Extremophile wrote: |
| Gored wrote: |
| Extremophile wrote: |
| Gored wrote: |
| Peter S wrote: |
| but the temperatures even here have been unusually warm for a northerly flow. |
Then why have I considered putting the heating on a few time the last few weeks?
It is not warm at all. |
all you’re are doing is proving you can’t debate with stupid. |
have you been outdoors?
its looking grim on the berry bushes. We have had to put more food out. Even the squirrels have taken to eating the neighbours sour apples from a fruit tree.
One positive is that the knotweed has not sprouted as much. I keep a close eye on encroachment for that weed.
I have used the air-con unit twice this summer, because it has not been warm. |
Ah yes, here we have a prime example of choosing to ignore the global climate trend because the weather in your immediate area is doing something a little bit different. |
Why do I care about Global? Rest of the world can burn as long as my patch stays green & pleasant.
UK Co2 footprint is not reducing. Ban diesel & petrol cars - your cars are then made in china using oil & coal to produce & ship to the UK. It is not reducing co2, it is just being counted elsewhere in the world.
It is evolution & we are not going to go back to horse & cart.
Clink your champagne glass thinking you have done wonderful. Then think of natural waste of co2 that went in producing & shipping your bottle of fizz along with the glass.
I will let nature take its course, even if that means mankind makes themselves extinct.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 7-08-23 16:47; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Gored wrote: |
| Why do I care about Global? Rest of the world can burn as long as my patch stays green & pleasant. |
Thick as mince
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Extremophile, I sincerely hope that you are only on a skiing forum.for the online interaction.
Clearly you feel strongly about these things, fair enough, and I'm sure you would agree that it would be total hypocrisy to actual go skiing (even if you walked all the way to the mountains, and up them).
For someone like you there is surely no middle ground.
For someone like me there is a vast middle ground.
What this thread clearly shows is that for a lot of people all nuances and subtleties are gone.
There are the Righteous
And the Deniers
Sadly, in my opinion, we can see this in other areas too like Brexit and Trans.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Layne wrote: |
| On an individual level most people I know are aware and in various ways try to modify their life- |
stuff that dont really effect their life though if we're being honest. Have many of them stopped eating meat and co summing dairy? stopping drinking beer wine and spirits?stopped having 2 ski trips a year? down sizing in house?
I can pretend im really concerned by using the recycle bin and walking to school with the kids but until we live like Greta its all lip service and self gratification
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Layne wrote: |
| Mother hucker wrote: |
| Everyone talks about it but doesnt really do much. |
Some people would have you believe that (maybe it keeps their conscience clear) but generally I do not believe that is true. On an individual level most people I know are aware and in various ways try to modify their life - perhaps they turn the heating down, buy less clothes, try to walk/cycle rather than drive, etc. etc. But also there are things being done on a larger scales. Such as in shipping. As the article discusses not everything is fully worked out or necessarily perfect and it requires some bravery by Governments/Companies but the possibilities/targets are well within reach. |
LOL I bet they dont do anything signifigent that reduces lifes enjoyment.
Life is for living, not existing.
If I was concerned, I’d be a hypocrite.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Layne wrote: |
| Gored wrote: |
| Why do I care about Global? Rest of the world can burn as long as my patch stays green & pleasant. |
Thick as mince |
and nasty with it
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Mother hucker wrote: |
| Maybe its part of the plan for us to extinct ourselves. The soon the better if we're all being honest about it. We've damaged, pillaged and abused the earth. Everyone talks about it but doesnt really do much. Another angle maybe the deniers are better people than the believers. The deniers genuinly dont believe theres an issue the belivers genuinely think theres an issue but still carry on consuming/travelling/enduldging and pretending to care |
Sounds like a hysterical doomsday cult.
Since modern global warming began 50 years ago...
Global human population is up.
Global human life expectancy is up.
Global human health is up.
Global crop yields are up.
Global famine has gone.
Global extreme poverty is nearly gone.
Global wildfires are falling.
The UN is forecasting global human population will go up in the next 30 years.
The UN is forecasting global human life expectancy will go up in the next 30 years.
There is zero sign of human extinction.
The human race is in its best-ever shape in a million years of global history.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Mother hucker wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
| On an individual level most people I know are aware and in various ways try to modify their life- |
stuff that dont really effect their life though if we're being honest. Have many of them stopped eating meat and co summing dairy? stopping drinking beer wine and spirits?stopped having 2 ski trips a year? down sizing in house?
I can pretend im really concerned by using the recycle bin and walking to school with the kids but until we live like Greta its all lip service and self gratification |
Well, as rungsp mentioned above there is a huge middle ground. You seem to be want something big, bold and absolute. Or nothing.
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@Whitegold, So many here care about global warming that they insist on adding to it by flying off to ride energy guzzling lifts to ski.
Quite laughable. Maybe they should go live in the woods.
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| Layne wrote: |
| Mother hucker wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
| On an individual level most people I know are aware and in various ways try to modify their life- |
stuff that dont really effect their life though if we're being honest. Have many of them stopped eating meat and co summing dairy? stopping drinking beer wine and spirits?stopped having 2 ski trips a year? down sizing in house?
I can pretend im really concerned by using the recycle bin and walking to school with the kids but until we live like Greta its all lip service and self gratification |
Well, as rungsp mentioned above there is a huge middle ground. You seem to be want something big, bold and absolute. Or nothing. |
the changes we prentend that are making a difference (to make ourselves feel better) are insignificant compared to if we really want to make a difference.
take away latte supping, world travelling, e bike riding, ski lift users need a reality check with a slap around the face from the octopus and avacado salad they eat. Its a joke us all pretending we care. we dont other wise we would make real changes
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Mother hucker, so just to confirm:
No more holidays for you.
No more skiing for you.
No car.
I find you preaching/hectoring rather tiresome but if you really do live according to your views here then I sincerely take my hat off to you.
If not then....
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| rungsp wrote: |
@Mother hucker, so just to confirm:
No more holidays for you.
No more skiing for you.
No car.
I find you preaching/hectoring rather tiresome but if you really do live according to your views here then I sincerely take my hat off to you.
If not then.... |
non of the above because like you im selfish and dont REALLY care. I prentend to care, i eat less meat, i walk everywhere possible, i use plant based milk on my oats, i recycle but its all irrelivant when i ski at least 5 weeks a year, own a pair of skis for every occasion, have several MTB's and travell all over to ride uo lifts, have a pension fund with heavy investments in oil and gas.
You going to deny being a selfish climate destroying c u next tuesday like me?
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FAQ
