 Poster: A snowHead
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| stevieb wrote: |
| The bottom two buckles are the least important! Finding something new to sell springs to mind! |
I leave my lower 2 buckles open on Alpine boots as they just cramp my forfoot and don’t improve ankle hold, but on my touring boots the Boa does actually help with overall hold so wouldn’t write it off before trying
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| stevieb wrote: |
| The bottom two buckles are the least important! Finding something new to sell springs to mind! |
do you honestly thing 4 companies would each invest serious amounts of cash to change mold series' (its into millions of €)and implement all the marketing behind this if "it was just something new to sell"
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@CEM, Are they different companies or just different brands from 1 company?
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The four launch companies are
Atomic, Fischer, K2 and Salomon.
Atomic and Salomon are both owned by Amer Sports, K2 and Fischer have independent owners.
Your point is largely irrelevant anyway as Atomic and Salomon don't share moulds. Tooling moulds for a change like this is a massive investment as CEM points out and isn't undertaken on a whim.
The other point is that although these boots are starting to appear at the end of this season for the 24 model year. They will have been tested for several years with sponsored athletes and testers who are skiing full seasons in all conditions.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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the 4 brands are Atomic , Salomon , Fischer, K2 atomic and salomon are both owned by Amer sports but they have completely separate R&D departments and other than sharing a factory they don't talk to each other much
each time you build a new mold for 10 sizes you are €1.2mil+ so it is not an insignificant investment to do this, at present the line up is one style 2 flexes mens and 2 womens from atomic, same from salomon, fischer i think have 3 flexes for men, 2 for women, K2 are offering i think a total of 16 across mens and womens models and flexes
i have said it several times, if the clip version fitted you chances are the boa version will be better, but if it doesn't fit it doesn't fit, more brands are joining this party next year and the year after so i think it is here to stay for a while
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I'm not sure the idea is particular new?
I had a pair of rear entry boots Nordica I think that had a very similar system for tightening.
This was in the very dim and distant past.
Cant remember having any issues with them.
No plans to change as are on new boots this year.
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| CEM wrote: |
| stevieb wrote: |
| The bottom two buckles are the least important! Finding something new to sell springs to mind! |
do you honestly thing 4 companies would each invest serious amounts of cash to change mold series' (its into millions of €)and implement all the marketing behind this if "it was just something new to sell" |
Yes I absolutely do. Welcome to marketing 101.
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Marketing 101... if you own both brands. Why would you not then just trial the new BOA system with one brand rather than make changes to both Atomic and Salomon boots.
Amer Sports clearly believe enough in the BOA system going forward to make a significant investment, that goes beyond marketing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Not sure if it's been shared but I watched this.. https://www.youtube.com/live/aHqU8aVUAfQ?feature=share
So it would seem that the manufacturers who have started producing BOA boots are those which are in the natural lifecycle of their current moulds. That is, they were going to change the moulds anyway and have gone with the BOA system on some of the boots.
It sounds like a great system, I'd be quite interested to try a boot. As others have said though the lifetime warranty might be a bit misleading, apparently they offered this on the cycle boots, but it seemed to disappear.. It would be interesting to try a pair of BOA boots and see how they go.
The boots have been trialled for a few years now, so most teething problems would have been sorted out.
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| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
Stuarth, I agree on the micro-adjustability aspect. I tend to have 'defaults' for each buckle which I can quickly set after a long lift, lunch etc. It remains to be seen how BOA will work in that regard. |
Equally Boa may make it a lot easier to figure out where the micro adjustments should be...
The right point on my touring boots falls somewhere between micro adjuster fully open on one notch, or fully closed on the next; Fine tuning it is a pain (and seems to need slight tweaking over a weeks skiing)...
Of course even though boa would solve this for me I won't be getting them any time soon, between having properly fitting touring boots (expect ot last at least another 3-5 years if not longer) and having extremely wide feet (all hail insanely wide scott cosmos + boot fitters punch...)
TBH like a lot of this stuff, choice of ski boots is all about shell fit; I will probably still be using whatever Scott fit to Cosmos when I replace my touring boots (assuming they continue using the same foot form for another 10+ years) given how they compare stock to every other boot I have ever had my feet in...
I seriously doubt that there will be many cases where the fixing mechanism should even be considered when buying boots (with exception of when the fitter is telling you the correct order/method to tighten them)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@CEM,
The problem from a marketing perspective is that there are a bunch of people who have got used to not really using the bottom buckles and boots are still ok. Now manufacturers are selling this new thing that is going to fix all the problems with my bottom boot buckles that I didn't even know I had (unless in my case I actually crank them - then I know there is a problem!  )...do you see why this may be an uphill battle?
I will keep an open mind. In my scientific survey of two, one says this will be great, the other is indifferent. Maybe when I actually get a pair of boots with Boa, I will wonder why I ever doubted it and it will be awesome, but if it costs more and has any potential downsides (durability?, repeatability?, ??) I am going to need some convincing. - of course if there are no issues, it doesn't cost more, and has potential upsides, then it will be a no-brainer to go for them when its time for new boots
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 27-02-23 19:15; edited 12 times in total
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You know it makes sense.
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- So you haven't skied in it, but are telling someone who has it is a gimmick.
- You are saying all the manufacturers using it would have been re-tooling anyway. That is pure conjecture and not true in all cases.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Surely re-tooling and making a decision to move to a new fastener tech makes sound financial sense?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@CEM, are racing boots going down the BOA route?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Dr John wrote: |
| @CEM, are racing boots going down the BOA route? |
Apparently not.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I got the Scarpa F1 touring boot. I know, cable is thinner, but other than that, it's pretty much the same thing. Can't say I'm very impressed. Boa was a massive success in cycling. And I get why it's to have there (I own cycling shoes with Boa as well). But for skiing? I really don't see the point. In any case, it's a disadvantage that, if you overdo it, you can't dial back a click, but need to undo all tension and start from scratch.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Tristero wrote: |
| In any case, it's a disadvantage that, if you overdo it, you can't dial back a click, but need to undo all tension and start from scratch. |
Apparently not the case, the ski boot boa dial can be micro-adjusted both ways.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Indeed, as CEM and others have pointed out on many occasions the new BOA ski boot design is a completely new, from the ground up design. It is not the same product found on cycling shoes, snow board boots or ski touring boots. Yet people here will not try it and instead judge it based on perception and opinion.
Bit sad and ignorant really!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| mgrolf wrote: |
| Tristero wrote: |
| In any case, it's a disadvantage that, if you overdo it, you can't dial back a click, but need to undo all tension and start from scratch. |
Apparently not the case, the ski boot boa dial can be micro-adjusted both ways. |
That's good to know, thanks. It said otherwise in one of the vids above (and for sure doesn't work with the ones I got on the Scarpas). I'm happy to recognize that as an advantage even over normal buckles, as you can more easily dial in some extra thightness if needs be.
That puts it down to three disadvantages:
1. No preselected, visualized default setting, as with buckles.
2. No way to select forefoot and middlefoot tightness independently - for now. Next crazy hot poo-poo will be TWO Boa dials on the shell, as it was with cycling shoes. That's when we are all supposed to get new boots 
3. The knob.
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There are graduated numbered marks which show the tightness of the BOA
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Had a play with some Boa boots today. If you are sceptical, I would suggest doing the same. They work a lot better than I imagined they would and certainly better than buckles. However…
I lace up my Zipfit liners then slide my foot and liner into the shell. I didn’t try it, but it looked like, even with the cable at maximum length, it wouldn’t be possible to do that with a boot with Boa closure.
Edit: Before someone points this out- The new Fischer RC4 will come stock with a Boa and a Zipfit liner in the the most expensive model. The ‘Fischer’ Zipfit liner doesn’t have a power strap however, so less need to lace it up before putting the liner in the boot.
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@Oceanic, depending on instep height and boot size getting into the shell with a zipfit on your foot is possible, i tested this at the ski test in January on the salomon boa boot, so long as you are in a boot below a size 28/28.5 you could also get a longer cable fitted
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I hope the Boa they fit in these ski boots are better than the one on the side of my [url= https://www.sportmania.ch/en/vans-aura-pro-men-s-snowboard-boots.html] Vans Aura Pro snowboard boot [/url].
Barely ten days of use and the piddly little plastic housing that holds the screw in place snapped when tightening my boot after lunch in Cervino today. A long way from "home" in Zermatt.
Apparently, as a rule, you want the Boa to be the beefier self-contained unit like the one on the front of the boot (as these can be replaced), whereas the bit of plastic that should hold the screw cannot.
And that's not to mention the problem some people have had with the cables snapping.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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jebroni3_16, the new ski boot Boa is a completely different product.
| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
Indeed, as CEM and others have pointed out on many occasions the new BOA ski boot design is a completely new, from the ground up design. It is not the same product found on cycling shoes, snow board boots or ski touring boots. Yet people here will not try it and instead judge it based on perception and opinion.
Bit sad and ignorant really! |
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You know it makes sense.
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@tangowaggon, in essence though you would go with what a boot fitter recommended would you not?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Layne wrote: |
| @tangowaggon, in essence though you would go with what a boot fitter recommended would you not? |
Which is what I did when I bought my current boots, but the boot fitting process is a two way thing (as if I need to say this) but the boot fitter needs accurate & meaningful information from the client.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@tangowaggon, what I am getting it at, if it isn't obvious, is that a lot will depend on the boot fitter - if they strongly recommend a Boa boot who is going to go against them?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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the boa system is used in snowboard boots since ca 15-18 years.
During the last years came always more and more problems with BOA.
I dont know if there will be a difference betwenn Ski vs SNB Boa, but i would try it.
PS i used BOA for snowboard boots since 2010, and now i got back to traditional laces.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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No, it's not. Read the thread!
I don't think ski boots will be "going back to laces" anytime soon.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| phil_w wrote: |
No, it's not. Read the thread!
I don't think ski boots will be "going back to laces" anytime soon. |
nope of course not. Traditional Laces = traditional buckles for ski boots.
The boa for ski boots supposed to be a complete new boa.
However also with SNB boots there are many new BOA models that came up during the last 10-15 years, but come over and over more problems.
For ski boots, i would wait a little bit maybe 1-2 years to see how it will develops before i take the decision to buy Ski boots with BOA
It is not only the BOA system, is the whole concept.
With SNB Boots came many problems not only from the boa, but also from the cable channels, sometimes BOA get complete away from the boot etc etc
There are many stories if someone has the time to search a little.
And as i said i am a BOA FAN. I had the same boots for ca 14 years.
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FAQ
