 Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks so much for your amazing reviews and personal advice. If we ever meet the beers are on me mate.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| denfinella wrote: |
Fri 27 - Praz de Lys
Piste map here.
For our final day skiing we visited Praz de Lys - a more "off the beaten track" domain 15 minutes and a few hairpins up from Les Gets. On Mondays and Fridays, lift passes purchased in advance are just €23.
We had unfinished business here after a similar day trip in 2020, when there was ample snow but overnight rain made the pistes horribly sticky and avalanche risk shut the top lift.
To introduce Praz de Lys to the uninitiated: 55km of slopes sit astride a low ridge with a car park / ski station on either side: Praz de Lys (1500m) on the east side is a sizeable resort village, while Sommand (1400m) is barely more than a few chalets.
Long, slow chairs provide the key links - three to the 1750m interchange between the two sides, and three more on the Praz de Lys side, including one up to Haut Fleury - the area high point at 1950m.
There are also extensive offshoot areas which are all worth exploring: a quiet cluster of drag lifts on the far side of Sommand, a low wooded area below Praz de Lys served by the rickety Praz l'Eveque chair, and a vast, gentle plateau inhabited by a whole swarm of drag lifts.
We just about managed to ski all the pistes in a single day, excluding the handful of closed ones.
The area has a reputation as a snow pocket with often better snow at equivalent altitudes than the Portes du Soleil. I certainly found that to be the case in 2020, but not this time, with lots of snow farming (scraping it off adjacent land) evident. Nevertheless virtually all runs were open, with low temperatures and skier traffic ensuring excellent snow quality even if there were a few thin spots.
The morning was magical - after a foggy drive at -10C, the clouds parted on the approach to Praz de Lys and the pistes were all bathed in bright morning sunshine. We headed straight to the top at Haut Fleury where we were greeted by a sea of clouds as far as the eye could see to the west - stunning. There was no one else around for our first two laps, and it felt like we had our own private ski area.
Combe (red) back to Praz de Lys and Vélard to Sommand (black) were the pick of the pistes from the top - both groomed. Lac (blue) has the best views of all, but gets a bit flat lower down. Haut Fleury (black) is very short, and Combe Perret was sadly closed (looks seriously steep on topo maps!).
Apart from the busy beginner zones, the Pierre Rouge / Col de Sommand chairs on the Sommand side seemed to have the most popular pistes, with easy blue, sunny cruises. Further across, the runs off the Mouille Noire and Platiere drags had very uneven surfaces caused by thin snow overlying bumpy ground - bordering on dangerous in the slightly flat light. Liaison (blue) is a really scenic, long and easy run - much more interesting than the name suggests. The Echerus drag was shut, as seems to be semi-permanently the case at least outside school holidays.
Getting back across to Praz de Lys involves a blue (Marmottes) which is a little on the steep side, so cautious skiers beware!
Around Praz de Lys, the run off the top of Roy to the bottom of Hotel is a decent length with lots of potentially chaotic piste intersections. Most of the others are pretty short and easy, though still worth doing. There is an unexpected black at the very bottom - closed today but we "enjoyed" straightlining it in the sticky conditions of our 2020 trip...
There were several tempting lunch options, all with appreciably lower prices than the PdS. Plats du jour in the €10-15 range. We settled on Le Flocon (no pun intended), ordering a carbonara (OK) along with the biggest burger on the menu (excellent - the best burger out of the four consumed on this trip), with the bill coming to €30.
After lunch the dreaded cloud layer had crept up a bit, so we headed below it into the Praz l'Eveque sector via the flat "Le Zone" blue catwalk. This area has some of the best "pure skiing" runs, with decent red and blue options.
We planned to finish by revisiting Haut Fleury above the clouds, to sign off our holiday with a flourish. Best laid plans... the cloud top had risen so much that even the very summit was in thick fog, and skiing Combe back down was like floating through air. Very disorientating, and bitterly cold. I removed my goggles to help pick my way from pole to pole and by the bottom my eyelashes were nicely frozen...
A final lap on the Roy red run and it was nearly lift closing time, and our fingers and toes were starting to feel a bit numb. Time to call it a day - it was only -6C according to the car thermometer, but felt colder.
To sum up Praz de Lys - I love the place, and would wholeheartedly recommend it for a day trip ahead of Roc d'Enfer. The ski area is well laid out (though the chairlifts unfailingly slow), there are varied, interesting pistes and the views are exceptional. However, I worry for its future. There doesn't appear to have been any significant recent investment in the lift system or in much snowmaking. There will come a point at which all the lifts approach their use-by date in quick succession; will the funds be available to replace them?
On a happier note, it's been a wonderful 9 days' skiing. Skis and boots have been returned to the hire shop ahead of an early flight back to the UK tomorrow. I'll post a summary along with costs in due course, and will add photos to each day's post when I've sorted through them. |
Sounds you've had a fantastic trip - thanks for all the detailed reports. I've really enjoyed reading them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Good to hear your review of Praz de Lys-Sommand. We always mean to have a day there but haven’t managed it yet. Maybe the March trip.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks for the kind comments!
Sat 28 - departure day
Relatively smooth return to the UK this morning. Just over an hour from St Jean d'Aulps back to Geneva pre-dawn, via Thonon and the city centre this time. Into the departure hall 2hr20 before our flight, to be greeted by the worst easyJet check-in queue I've ever seen, with wide zigzags all the way from desk 60 to the easyJet section at desk 1. Security was relatively quick after this, but departure hall to gate still took 1hr45. Is this normal for Saturday mornings? We usually return late evening when it's a bit quieter.
Flight landed at Edinburgh early, with a swift exit through passport control and out into 6°C sunshine (which felt tropical compared to the previous week's temperatures!).
Trip summary
Good: Obviously we were incredibly lucky with our trip timing, arriving immediately after several days of heavy snowfall, followed by sunshine for most of our 9 skiing days and very cold temperatures. No windy days, mostly good visibility and very few closed pistes. The main Portes du Soleil area has a fantastic variety of skiing, plus the quiet gems of Roc d'Enfer and Praz de Lys close by. Lift pass offers gave superb value for money. Fully recommend St Jean d'Aulps as a base if you have a car, and very happy with our apartment.
Not so good: Busy pistes for the first few days (Avoriaz, Morzine, Les Gets) by low season standards, though it improved after this. PdS food prices significantly higher than most other ski areas we've recently visited, but much more reasonable in Praz de Lys and St Jean d'Aulps. Although I think we saw the PdS at its best (from the Chatel end in 2020 and the Morzine end in 2022), I still reckon the area as a whole is better for locals / seasonnaires than for one-week visitors; some parts are poorly linked, and travelling from one end to another is time consuming.
Cost breakdown
Prices are for 2 adults, 11 days (halve for per person prices). Not included: food costs, insurance.
Flights (EasyJet EDI-GVA, 1 hold bag) £160
Car hire (Unirent 10 days, winter tyres, + fuel (no tolls)) £291+46
Accommodation (4-person studio in St Jean d'Aulps, 10 nights) £309
Lift passes (2 1-day Avoriaz passes early booking, 6-day Portes du Soleil Black Friday offer, 1-day Praz de Lys Friday promo) £394
Ski & boot hire (9 days) £161
Total: £1361
Despite inflationary pressures, "cost per skiing day" (£76) is on par with previous French trips over the last 6 years. Lift passes are the standout bargain, averaging under £22 per person per day. Flights were also cheaper than usual. Car hire and equipment hire are significantly up on previous years, also accommodation to a lesser extent. We always try to do these trips for a lowish price, so any questions about deals etc. - feel free to ask.
Saturday fun at Geneva Airport
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 16-07-23 0:12; edited 6 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I’ve only a weekend trip booked this year and your posts are making me crave a longer stint. Thanks for taking the time to post @denfinella, I’ve really enjoyed your reports.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@denfinella, Great insights into PDS especially for the outer reaches and looking forward to seeing the photos. Where to next?
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Cheers for all the info, always good to pick up different viewpoints and tips.
I noticed you highlighted the Tovassiere run and red down to Grand-Paradis in your report. I'm off to Champery in a couple of weeks but mostly boarding so I was wondering if you would advise these runs for a board as I get the impression they are quite "roady"?
There's also a couple of interesting looking off piste routes that end up on Tovassiere. Am I right in thinking that the poor snow/runs were more on the Chatel side of Morgins?
Cheers.
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@denfinella, as usual living vicariously through your reports. Sounds like it was a really good trip, other people notwithstanding!
Can't believe you're done already - next on the agenda? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@scottishandy, While waiting for @denfinella to reply, I recently found GoPro videos of these long runs on YouTube as also interested. They are long and mostly cat-track from what I saw. Spectacular scenery in new snow. Yes it’s the Châtel side of the Morginns valley that generally has poor snow as sunny aspect without snow making. It’s possible to download via TS Corbeau from Chalet Neuf to Morgins
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@B1g_browner, @Ozboy, @ElzP, thanks. Next is Italy (Valtellina region) in March 
@scottishandy, yes, Grand-Paradis and Tovassiere both have long road sections. As @Ozboy says, the scenery is spectacular especially when the trees are covered in snow - but avoid in powder or sticky slush, as you would have to push / walk most of the way! From the point of view of a skier - Grand Paradis has a longish section where we had to push in the middle of it, so possibly worse for a snowboarder. Tovassiere (blue 31) only had a short flat section which was early on. This flat bit can be avoided by taking the Didier Defago blue or black run instead (35). After they join, the run is still very gentle but I don't recall having to push.
And yes, the snow was much worse on the Chatel side of Morgins (Corbeau & Culet) than on the Champoussin side.
Snow depths seem a bit unusual at the moment. There is a reasonable amount all the way down to the lowest slopes, but it doesn't really get much deeper with height until about 1800m, at which point it gets exponentially deeper with over 3m at the top of Avoriaz. The result being that some areas especially at middling altitudes are rockier than might be expected.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sun 12-02-23 3:08; edited 2 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Grand Paradis has some flat and slightly uphill bits. Usually some poling needed.
Totally worth it. Unchallenging skiing but a really beautiful run down the valley with no lift noise. Feels another world. From the bottom two high quality chairs back up to Planachaux. Couple of nice bars/restaurants early on (Lapisa and another)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks folks. Hoping to take skis as well as board but will depend on packing/weight limits! Maybe try Grand P on the skis and I can tow the laddie.
Tovassiere sounds OK, thinking we might have to do a mini tour of Swiss if French strikes come about. Really hoping for a top up to refresh the off piste but models are awffy unsure of whats going to happen.
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Photos now added to each day's posts.
I've tried to name the specific runs, which might help with some of the piste queries posted above! As for snow conditions - I doubt there's been much change since these photos were taken.
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You know it makes sense.
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@denfinella, enjoyed the read. Nice to see the pictures too, brings back some nice memories. I've been to the PdS every season back to 2019 (except the 2021 covid season) and we spent a couple of days in Morzine last June. Shame not to make it there this season, but sure it won't be long until we're back.
As I think you saw from my Saalbach TR, we did a bit of travelling around on our holiday, and this TR reminds me I really must ski the areas of the PdS i've never skied. Haven't touched St Jean d'Aulps, Abondance or La Chapelle d'Abondance and really must get round to it! Likewise, i'd like to get up to Praz de Lys.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@swskier, cheers. It's a nice part of the Alps for sure, and so accessible, including from Scottish airports which makes Austria more difficult. I hope to get back to Austria in the future (where I've only been to the Skiwelt, twice), but haven't managed to make it work financially in recent years compared with France / Italy.
Praz de Lys, St Jean d'Aulps, La Chapelle d'Abondance (Cret Beni) and Abondance are definitely all worth a visit, probably in that order of preference. The geography means you really need to be staying on the Morzine side to visit the first two, and the Chatel side to visit the second two. Hence our two different bases in 2020 and 2023 to see the two extremities of the area.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@denfinella, the cost one is an interesting one.
For our Saalbach holiday, flights were EJ Bristol-Innsbruck, and similar to the Geneva flights we've used in the past. Car hire again similar to what you'd expect at Geneva.
Apartment is an interesting one, as we stayed in Saalbach it's difficult to compare vs St Jean or Chatel for example, as it's a much more popular resort and therefore higher prices, but you could find similarly priced apartments to French resorts in smaller areas.
The difference though is in eating and drinking on the mountain. I don't think I saw a beer for more than €5.50 all week in a mountain restaurant, and no way could France keep up with that.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Praz de Lys might want to find a way to hook into Portes de Soleil pass and add a bus service.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@swskier, the flights issue is a Scottish one. Edinburgh has loads of flights to Geneva (for example, EasyJet usually has FOUR return flights on Saturdays, plus Jet2 and maybe other carriers too), which means they're usually pretty cheap (<£60 return) and often lets you ski on arrival and departure day. Italy is also really well served, with Ryanair / easyJet / Jet2 competing on routes to Turin / Malpensa / Bergamo / Verona / Treviso / Venice (<£50 return). However flights to Innsbruck or Salzburg are with more expensive carriers and it ends up costing several hundred pounds for the flights alone. Munich is sometimes an option but even these are often a bit pricey.
Car hire is fine, probably slightly cheaper than Geneva.
Accommodation is less of an issue but it's still difficult to find places for around the £30/night mark in Austria, which is still possible in many French resorts or towns near ski areas.
You're right that restaurants cost more in France (well, big French resorts), but the overall impact on costs would probably be well under €100. We tend to have a packed lunch on the mountain and eat out in valley towns in the evening, where menu prices are less. (This week was a bit different as it was so cold, so wanted to warm up at lunch in a restaurant! Away from the "Brit" resorts, France is not so expensive for food. I can't comment on beer, but a small glass of house white wine in one of the St Jean d'Aulps restaurants this week was €3.50.
Basically for France, it's the flights and the accommodation that bring the cost down a lot (and sometimes lift passes). For Italy, it's the flights, car hire and food. There isn't really a cheap component in Austria beyond the food saving, as far as I know.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Pasigal wrote: |
| Praz de Lys might want to find a way to hook into Portes de Soleil pass and add a bus service. |
Apparently there were plans for a lift link from Praz de Lys to Les Gets years ago. Joining the PdS pass would be really interesting if combined with shuttle bus from Les Gets. Not sure what impact it would have on lift pass prices in Praz de Lys.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| denfinella wrote: |
| Pasigal wrote: |
| Praz de Lys might want to find a way to hook into Portes de Soleil pass and add a bus service. |
Apparently there were plans for a lift link from Praz de Lys to Les Gets years ago. Joining the PdS pass would be really interesting if combined with shuttle bus from Les Gets. Not sure what impact it would have on lift pass prices in Praz de Lys. |
i think I'd heard that -- I'm not familiar with the terrain between the two but as a car/bike trip is not that far. I don't know if it would have an impact on PdL pricing so much as maybe drive skier visits ==> revenue.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Excellent report and wonderful well-composed photos. What camera were you using? They look too good to be phone pics. Now I have another destination to add to my wishlist
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@mr_scratchy_esq, thanks. They are indeed just phone pics!
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wow - they look great! I usually ski with a Ricoh GR III and IIIx...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Layne, not at all, yours are great! I think you were the original "live trip reporter" on snowHeads too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Awesome TR
Not arsed by all the EV stuff btw.
Maybe that should be on a separate thread about helmets.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@denfinella, What an amazing time you seemed to have. Thanks for putting in all the effort, so the rest of us could live vicariously through you!!! Photos are awesome!
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@OuatteDePhoque, thanks. Sorry about the EV stuff!
@B1g_browner, cheers, I enjoy doing the TRs and they'd be nice to look back on even if no-one else read them! We've always had a great time in the Alps no matter the snow conditions, but the weather gods smiled on us this time. It all evens out over the years.
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You know it makes sense.
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@denfinella, another epic TR. I guess your TRs are a kind of only reason to come back in snowheads these days.
As I failed in St Gervais last December , I am planning Sölden for next one. Have you ever been there before?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@dkimble, thanks... I think there are lots of reasons to come back to snowHeads!
Shame about St-Gervais. Nope, never been to Sölden, can't help there.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@denfinella, so comparing to Châtel and Abondance side last time, what was better or worse?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@dkimble, in terms of what, quality of skiing? Hard to say. I think my favourite areas are the Swiss side, Linga / Pre-la-Joux and Morzine. For access to the whole PdS I think Chatel and Morzine both make good bases, but other places aren't ideal unless you have a car.
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FAQ
