Schöngraben/Törli is quite known for its immense avalanche danger (it's in the name actually; "pretty grave")
Graben is ditch not grave, so it is a beautiful ditch. Sorry don't mean to be pedantic, but for years i also had heard it translated as beautiful grave - which serves as a better warning.
I'm aware of that difference. Grab and Graben. Small difference (Graf in dutch btw)
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 15-11-22 20:10; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@hsdee, Do you know if the Törli (little door, gate ) is still there? I'm starting to wonder whether it is eroded or something; how can it be there are not pictures in the net?
It has been 25 years for me since I was there.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
A few years ago, i did find a website with someone who posted their group skiing down through there, can't find it now though but if i do find it again, I'll let you know. It's not one I ski, don't like the lower valley or the walk back, the tree way is far prettier and no walking.
I hope you don't think i was being petty, it was just for years i always heard it called beautiful grave, then one day i was looking at a map and thought to myself that actually reads ditch, which is n't nearly as foreboding.
Also a few years ago i was speaking with one of the new inexperienced workers in town, they told me they had learned a new way to ski back to their accomodation towards Jacob. I asked how expecting they would tell me they naughtily used the toboggan track, but oh no - follow that valley down behind the drag lift on kapall. Face palm.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
A little snow in the village that dissappeard through the day. Its looking much better than we thought it would be vis a vis last week. Should be alright for the opening even if we can't ski down to the village.
has been and is currently snowing in Town....will clear up this afternoon
Next Low is coming & Tomorrow we can expect 30cm (min) above 2000 Metres
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First trip to Lech in Jan for a week. Just scoping the piste map. How extreme are the extreme routes ie 215 & 216 off the Rufikopf. Are they more like well used non-pisted runs or “proper offpiste”. my wife and I have avalanche gear/beacons but I’ll be skiing with my bro who doesn’t and wouldn’t want to take him if it’s dangerous. In Saalbach last year some of the routes were pretty much likes pistes
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@Ldj226, you should not need to have avalanche kit to ski on open ski routes as they are checked. However it is only the line of the poles that is checked, if you venture away from them then you are into "off piste". Of the routes you mention one is the well known "Langerzug" which is supposed to be the steepest "run" in Austria, it is pretty much pisted and usually has good snow (the ski school run an early morning trip which they promote as being suitable for red run skiers!) there are lots of youtube videos. The other one I have not done as it is reputed to be one of the more difficult runs and it also goes near some dangerous territory (there was nasty accident a couple of years ago, 4 people died).
Clearly it is dependent of the snow conditions at the time but the routes are more mogul fields or semi pisted runs than anything else. The ones marked in black dashed lines can be pretty steep, the red ones should be within the compass of reasonably competent skiers but you do need to be aware of conditions ie visibility, lack of snow, ice etc. There has been a fair amount of criticism of the concept over the years as it can be difficult for people who dont know the area to understand the exact nature of the runs. Some such as Madloch (link between Zürs & Lech) are effectively popular pistes but others are no more than a line of poles and can lead the unwary into places they shouldnt be.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Ldj226, I will echo what @munich_irish just said. Langerzug (215) is steep, particularly the first 150 - 200 metres, but it is almost always pisted and it is a wide run. It faces roughly north, so usually the snow is pretty good. It is well within the ability of a strong intermediate skier, but you do need to hold your nerve on those first 200 metres because a fall will almost guarantee a long side. The end of the run is on forest tracks, ie fairly shallow, with beautiful views through the trees to the back of Lech. It is well worth doing, though possibly give it a miss in flat light.
216, ie Tannegg, is a different ball of wax. It is never groomed. In fresh (safe!) powder conditions it is probably a joy. Unfortunately, it often moguls à la carte! This video, though fairly crappy, will give you an idea: http://youtube.com/v/LxtD-R9NKxI
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Thanks team that’s great info. The Madloch was the other one I was wondering about to save getting bus. Sounds similar to the Saalbach ones that it all depends on which route it is and conditions/visibility etc. My brother is still giving me poo-poo for taking him down the red route back from Zell to Saalbach last year late in season and we had to ski on one ski hopping over mud holes, rocks and ground.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Ldj226, Madloch -> Zug is always pisted. Apart from 2 pitches, near the bottom, which can get icy, it is a solid blue or relatively easy red.
Best done in the morning before the hordes get onto it, ie it is very popular. We scored first runs on it last year, ie literally nobody in front of us and did not see another person until we got to Zug. Pure joy. It was however cold as hell.
Guy in the video sounds like he's had more fun getting teeth pulled!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Official Weather Forecast--
Aktuelle Bedingungen
Die neuesten Wettermodelle bestätigen den kurz- und mittelfristigen Trend, der langfristige Trend präsentiert sich hingegen stark verändert. Das heißt, die sich zuletzt abzeichnende Warmwetterphase in der nächsten Woche scheint bei den Wetterkarten aktuell nicht mehr auf. Im Gegenteil, auch in der nächsten Woche könnte der frühwinterliche Wettercharakter in die Verlängerung gehen. Eine kurzzeitige Milderung am Freitag und Sonntag wird nur wenig ins Gewicht fallen, zumal der Samstag einen neuen Schwall Kälte bringt und es bis Donnerstag dieser Woche sowieso unterkühlt bleibt. Nennenswerter Schneefall ist allerdings kein Thema. Zwar ziehen in der Nacht auf Donnerstag, sowie zu Donnerstagmittag oberhalb von 1300m ein paar Schneeschauer durch, doch in Summe kommt bis Sonntag, abgesehen vom Dienstag kaum noch Neuschnee auf den Bergen dazu.
Current conditions
The latest weather models approve the short respectively medium-term trend, however, the long-term trend is very different. This means that the recently forecast period of warm weather throughout next week is not suggested anymore by the current weather models. On the contrary, the early wintry weather conditions will be prolonged also throughout next week. A short-term period of milder conditions on Friday and on Sunday will only slightly affect the weather, moreover, Saturday will bring a new flush of cold air and the temperatures will remain too cold until next Thursday. Larger amounts of snowfall are no issue. Scattered snow showers will cross our area above 1300m above sea level on Wednesday night and towards Thursday midday, however, apart from Tuesday, new fresh snow is hardly expected in the mountains until Sunday.
Apres Ski crackdown this season (awarness campaign/ image cleanup)
Further to the Langerzug run, the initial part is steepish but not fearsome and is wide. The snow is usually good, as has been said, northerly facing. The run does not attract crowds so it is a quiet part of the mountain. It shouldn't present intermediate skiers any fears, nice snow, gentle bumps to turn on.
However, Madloch route gets quite busy down to Zug, and even with the new lift last season the notorious lift queues were still persistent, though less so.
Again, no problems for intermediates apart from sections of busy narrow piste, paricularly after the off load at Madloch Joch.
As for the steepest in Austria, I'd nominate the Kamikaze piste in Mayrhofen. There you really do need sharp edges, the steep piste is hard and billiard table smooth. Fall there and you won't stop sliding for several hundred metres.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Ldj226, Madloch is one of the highlights of the Arlberg (hence why it can get so busy)
Last time I did it in February 2020! It runs from the right hand end of the ridge down the face, the route to Lech goes off to the left hand side behind the trees, the route down to Zug is the obvious run through the trees in the middle of the image. The run down to Lech is quite fun as (in good snow conditions) you can ski through the edge of the village right to the bus stop to go back to Zürs to do it all again (best on hire skis as they grit the roads!). In reasonable conditions can be done by most skiers though it can get chopped up in the afternoons or a bit scraped and as @ulmerhutte, said icy at the bottom
@munich_irish, The accident was on Langerzug, not Tannegg. It was closed at that time, also the Schafalp lift. It was after days of snowfall. They went in directly from Rüfikopf (the oldfashioned way, before Schafalplift was constructed). The 4 men were daytrippers from nearby Allgäu, and it was at the end of day full of powder skiing, so must have known the area very well. Probably wanted to ski back to their car at the Schlosskopf parking. Among them were father and son, and son was to become father soon...Rescuers had to walk from the village up to 2000 meters at night, but they did not find all men, it took several days. There were road closures too, due to the snow. There were several days of very negative covering about Lech in German/Austrian News. The boss of Skilifte Lech said that going in there was equal to suicide. He was clearly annoyed.
@ulmerhutte, @Ldj226 to describe Madloch as blueish/red might be technically true. But practically definitely not. In any case it is way different than a Saalbach blue/red...
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Tue 22-11-22 11:20; edited 4 times in total
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@davidthornton, Langerzug run is fabulous, and also the run from Rufikopf off-piste (or on piste) under the lift to the drag lift which serves it isn't too shabby either. Last time we went down Langerzug there was a local ski instructor hopped off the lift in front of me and he straight lined it, and took off the lip at the other side of the small compression at the bottom before it heads left to Stubenbach. Some great variants through the trees at the bottom too.
@munich_irish, Madloch as you say can get very busy, I particularly enjoy keeping right (or left) off the main piste once down the initial schuss and across the flat section. A great variant left at the end of the schuss that bring you back in at Zug but very steep and exposed (a few fatalities over the years down there sadly). 5 years ago one Easter Monday was down Madloch in 30cm of fresh powder, we'd taken the first Post Bus to Zurs and headed over., completely empty apart from lifties. Best time we've ever skied it, totally untracked.......until I caught an edge, face planted on the sheet ice just above Zug and cracked my brand new Oakley goggles, and broke my nose!
How busy does the area get during Feb? trying to get away with the family and Feb seems to be the best option for youngest missing a few days of uni!!
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kitenski wrote:
How busy does the area get during Feb? trying to get away with the family and Feb seems to be the best option for youngest missing a few days of uni!!
IMHO, early Feb is less busy, then gets busier into the month.
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@Langerzug, Cool looking buildings, not sure they add much to the architecture of Lech though, more functional than architectural gems eh? Probably an improvement versus the old post office though! The underground parking/ service diversion works they did there 3-4 years ago was done pretty seamlessly in true Austrian efficient manner.
@kitenski, Busy after week 1 February until 2nd week March ime. If you are planning to stay in Stuben however i'd suggest it is not such an issue because you'd be able to access the pinchpoints at different times and avoid any queues, eg head over early over Flexenpass to Zurs/ Lech and back into Anton later in the day if you want when many Antoners are behind you for some Apres (young people eh?), and back on the bus to Rauz, and a slide down the piste in the dark with headtorches......I know it's not allowed
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@davidthornton, Kamikaze is at Serfaus; Harakiri is at Mayrhofen. And I don't think it is a great idea to take intermediates down Langerzug either.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Scooter in Seattle, +1 it's not for the feint hearted, getting that first turn in for an intermediate could be tricky - take a tumble on there and it's a long steep slide.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Scooter in Seattle wrote:
@davidthornton, Kamikaze is at Serfaus; Harakiri is at Mayrhofen. And I don't think it is a great idea to take intermediates down Langerzug either.
Yes, you're right. I did mean Harakiri.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Markymark29 wrote:
@Scooter in Seattle, +1 it's not for the feint hearted, getting that first turn in for an intermediate could be tricky - take a tumble on there and it's a long steep slide.
My interpretation of an intermediate skier is someone who is comfortable with parallel turns.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@davidthornton, interpretation indeed….a person with 2-3 weeks experience can call themselves an intermediate. There’s no place to hide on Langerzug, paralleling on a cruisy blue and then ending up on there could be a challenge for many.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Markymark29 wrote:
@davidthornton, interpretation indeed….a person with 2-3 weeks experience can call themselves an intermediate. There’s no place to hide on Langerzug, paralleling on a cruisy blue and then ending up on there could be a challenge for many.
2-3 weeks experience - intermediate standard! Typical overstated Brit skier. Been the case since the 1970s. 2-3 weeks is beginner in any realistic book. Few recreational skiers achieve advanced standard.
At best most Brit recreational skiers are intermediate. Heard them in the bars, seen them, skied with them.
Also, snow and weather conditions dictate to influence the severity of a ski run/route, whatever the grading.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@davidthornton, aye not an intermediate until 10/12 weeks imv. So long as they can stop who cares? Paralleling on blacks minimum imv.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@munich_irish, Ha, haven't watched your video but I can imagine what it was - only trying to get over the point that the run isn't suitable for early intermediates imv, however each to their own, and if folks want to get themselves in trouble that's their prerogative.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I'm also concerned about the intermediates getting other people in trouble. There aren't many places to go fast in the Arlberg because most of them are easy to get to and thus crowded. Good skiers finishing Langer Zug will point 'em near the bottom to maintain speed through the woods. Don't need gapers with vibrating legs getting in the way...
@Scooter in Seattle, I do hope you are aware of the FIS rules. And the fact that Austrian judges know them very well and very much tend to favor the slower skier.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Langerzug, very aware. The rules are as they should be. But also, folks should have situational awareness.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@Scooter in Seattle, that are never many people on Langerzug in my experience, besides if the “gaper”, as you call them, has made it to the bottom of the steep pitch, he/she can probably ski the flat parts reasonably well.
There are far more fraught places in the Arlberg where (very?) high speed traffic mixes with much less capable skiers, eg the exits from Zürsertali & Trittkopf, from Madlochjoch, from the top of Valfagehr, and possibly others. It is reality in the Arlberg. Langerzug is nothing special in that respect.
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I've always refrained from doing Langerzug, aware of the first part.
I am rather confident on all bashed pistes, more cautious (naturally) on black ones in bad conditions. Definitely with a far from perfect technique.
But I've done Harakiri in Mayrhofen a few times and it was good fun and controllable.
Is Langerzug's first part less or more steep?
TIA
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I have not done Harakiri, but on paper they seem similar in steepness.
If you can link parallel turns on a black, groomed slope, and actively manage your speed, you are probably okay to ski it from a technique viewpoint. The unknown, and I am not being rude, is whether you can do it mentally. A tentative approach, leading to sitting on the back of your skis, and/or leaning into the slope, will not be forgiven on that slope. Only you know the answer to that question.
The hardest part is possibly the first 50 - 100 metres. You cannot see the slope from the take-off point, so it is an article of faith you are not dropping into the abyss. Once in, and you have your turns dialled in, any fear turns to thrill, it then is straight-forward. It is worth stopping where the slope flattens out, but before the small upslope at the end. Take a minute and check out the awesome scenery and the run you just did. After that, you have a pleasant cruise, albeit with a bit skating, on summer forest roads back to Lech.
If you are going to do it, pick a nice sunny morning. Hit it while the corduroy is fresh.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
) is still there? I'm starting to wonder whether it is eroded or something; how can it be there are not pictures in the net?
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