 Poster: A snowHead
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| brianatab wrote: |
Hopefully, they will make an example of this case, and , if necessary give extra powers to remove/cancel lift passes. |
Or exonerate him for being in a genuine accident- I'd much prefer that, if it were proven to be the case. I'd still be happy for your second point
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@195062, unfortunately I mean timing like the skier was timing himself going down the slope or had some other reason for the speed.. why would he not slow down otherwise.. but I don't know facts of situation and shouldn't be jumping to conclusions. But I can't comprehend how or why someone could possibly ski so fast so close to snake of 5 children other than absolute recklessness
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@dublin2, I had heard a few years ago from a ski instructor there was growing problem with rich kids doing cocaine and skiing, don't know what story with that has been more recently
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What an appalling tragedy. My heart aches for the little girl and her family.
I will definitely reminding my son (in particular) the rules and expectations of the slopes this season. The last time he skied he was 11 and still a child. He’s now 13, but 5’9 and about 10 stone, and needs to be more aware of himself.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
but I don't know facts of situation and shouldn't be jumping to conclusions |
Indeed and wasn't there a suggestion that the skier stopped to assist with first aid?
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| Quote: |
I don't know facts of situation and shouldn't be jumping to conclusions.
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No. There will no doubt be a very full enquiry.
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I was hit from behind by a straight line skier in 2015 whilst skiing a blue run Sairon in Grand Massif down to Morillon. I was thrown forward onto my head and left shoulder which left me concussed, with a clean snap of my left humerus, torn bicep and a shattered (five significant fractures) humerus at the shoulder ball joint. At the time I was 45years old, around 16stone and solid regularly lifting weights and former rugby player, fairly typically strong as an ox.
The person who hit me was a French woman in her mid twenties who weighed only 9 stones. She was uninjured as she struck me square between the shoulder blades with her right shoulder and braced impact. I actually think I got off lightly in the end.
The damaged she caused was immense really and estimates were she was travelling around 25 to 30 mph.
I’m not splitting hairs here but most references to dangerous skiers so far in this thread mention the offenders of such behaviour being men which is a bit stereotypical imo. That aside it’s clear that if a small young woman can inflict such damage skiing irresponsibly then the impact from anyone at high speed can be devastating.
It’s a tragic incident and a stark reminder that every skier no matter if you’re a big bloke, small woman, teenager or whatever must ski slower in general and with much better care and consideration for others. This story is utterly heart breaking.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Sun 16-01-22 19:17; edited 1 time in total
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| peanuthead wrote: |
| @dublin2, I had heard a few years ago from a ski instructor there was growing problem with rich kids doing cocaine and skiing, don't know what story with that has been more recently |
Jeez, Cocaine and skiing, god help us..I would imagine not limited to just kids, but foolish people of all ages.
We are probably years away from random drug alcohol tests on pistes , but i would be happier , if there were. Bear in mind the average blue piste skier can achieve 35 kmh, for short bursts. 35kmh is fast , if someone heavier than you hits you
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@jirac18,  OMG. Are you fully recovered? I hope so.
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@jirac18, wow that is a hell of a story and very scary, I hope you're ok now.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Hurtle, yes thankfully all the breaks healed nicely and I skied again the following year but I’m now a way more nervous skier and I’m generally a very confient person. I hate anyone skiing up fast behind or close to me. And I get very defensive of my loved ones when anyone skis like a tool near them. A Dutch teenager wiped out my daughter in La Plagne again skiing irresponsibly and beyond his ability, I’m still not sure how I stayed calm with that one but he and his parents tried to ski off but I wouldn’t let them and got all their details and photographed lift passes in case of any delayed injury. They knew better than to argue with me over it.
Another day the boy would miss my daughter, another day he may hit a five year old and kill them. Not enough proper risk assessment is made by many skiers, too many reckless fools out there.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@jirac18, good. And totally agreed re the idiots out there.
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@jirac18, ouch, that is some list of injuries, so well done on getting back on the horse and skiing again, I'm not sure I would have been so confident. My husband's neck fracture shot my own confidence to bits and it took some time for us to feel safe again. A child would probably have been killed outright, and as there was a ski school snake in the vicinity, I shudder to think what might have happened.
He skied again right at the end of the season although very cautiously. I spent most of it sitting in the Knife and Fork at VT in the sun with snowHeads on the EoSB.
Fortunately there was no major lasting damage, but he had 5 hours in surgery, and has an artificial disc between C5 and C6 and a collection of screws to be proud of. It could have been so different though. He was also hit from behind, and doesn't really know to this day what happened or who hit him.
All he remembers an impact from behind and regaining conciousness some distance from where he was hit with our younger son collecting his strewn belongings, skis, etc etc. Idiot then picked himself up and skied to the bottom of the slopes (not far) before deciding he really needed medical attention.
We will skip a day's skiing and do something else on a Sunday if we see huge queues arriving in coaches for the day. We can see the coach park from our apartment and indeed the place he was injured.
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You know it makes sense.
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Used to wonder how things like this could happen.
But then I went on a lads ski trip to Tignes. One of our group wanted to race back to the chalet and we agreed a finish line, well before the blue/green sloped of the town.
As we entered the baby slope area, everyone slowed down apart from the one lad who was hurtling down a very busy slope, full of nervous beginners.
He hit a 65+ year old lady at full pelt. Luckily no one was hurt but ski patrol saw what happened and took his pass away, thankfully.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Hells Bells, it surely does shake you up when there is an injury incident. Considering all the anecdotes of incidents it’s actually a little surprising there aren’t more deaths. The number of near misses must be enormous though. One can only imagine the number of what if questions and if only thoughts being asked by all parties in this case today at Flaine. A happy holiday should never end up with your entire world collapsing. So tragic I feel a bit sick at the thought of it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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In Puy St Vincent about 6 years ago, skiing on my own one morning mid mountain, I watched a snake of say 6 year olds skiing down a green run with an instructor.
I witnessed what happened next.
Two, circa 19 year olds, came like a bat out of hell from off piste joining the piste, straight-descending the mountain, over a dreaded blind hump and took out the 6 year olds at high speed.
Sickening to watch, nothing I could do from 75 metres away.
Immediately the sound of screams and crying, skis everywhere, some smashed beyond repair.
I went over to help, in shock, letting the uninjured 19 year olds know what I thought of their skiing. I helped the instructor and kids, other adults came to help too.
Because all the kids eventually got up (amazing rubbery bones and bodies), the attitude from the instructors was no long-term harm done, so the 19 year olds were allowed to ski away with no details exchanged.
Talk about laissez faire!
Seriously, the only bollocking they got was from me.
Unlike North America, my assumption is that the French authorities are only interested if there’s serious injury or death?
Perhaps French Alpine experts here could give their insight.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 16-01-22 20:17; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Can’t Express the anger I feel, when I see some idiot blasting downhill when the hill is full of kids doing their lessons - Unfortunately I see it all too often!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@peanuthead, We're in agreement, then. Likewise I find it incomprehensible. I hope that we'll all keep sad events like this in mind when we get back to the slopes. Given that I was already not of the slimmest of builds, and that two years of lockdowns etc have not been especially favourable to the waistline, I will be particularly mindful of my responsibilities when, hopefully before too long, I can return to the mountains.
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| billb wrote: |
Sorry, could I please repeat the question I asked earlier : (presumably lost amongst other posts)
Am I right in assuming that group lessons on piste (in France at least) are led by a single instructor, even for children? This person might be a highly competent skier but can't look everywhere at once. Could it be there should be TWO instructors for children's lessons with one at the back as a "lookout" (or look up)? It would cost more but perhaps this is the safer way forwards, given that slopes are especially busy in school holiday weeks when children are on the slopes.
As an aside, a primary school would never lead children along a footpath with a single adult so it does seem extraordinary that a group of young children can be left in the care of a single adult (possibly young and inexperienced) in a potentially lethal environment. |
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@jirac18, ...awful that this happened to you....it's the one thing which I worry about, after a couple of nasty incidents in the past. Back protectors do work.
This Christmas I was skiing very conservatively into a wide open junction and there were only two other skiers, one to my left and skiing out of the junction, and one way to my right, coming into the junction but timed to join the junction a few seconds after I would leave it. That was it. No-one else anywhere at all. All clear. Imagine my surprise at the exit of the junction when I heard and felt 'click click' of both bindings, and then found myself rolling, fortunately so relaxed I got up without even realising I had tumbled some distance. 'So sorry...' said the guy, who had skied over the back of my skis... '..I changed my mind about where I was going at the last minute...'. 'ff***ff$$$$$' was my initial reaction, then calming down a bit to accept his genuine apology. But yet again. Caught from behind and compromised by someone else's incompetence.
The chances may seem vanishingly small, but I have been taken out from behind three times in a decade, and my son once in that same time. Not so small perhaps.
The unnecessary death of that small girl is simple horrible.
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| Quote: |
We’ve always said, it’s got to be one of very few types of holiday you’d go on where there’s a real risk you won’t get home alive.
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How tragic. We should remember that skiing is still an adventure activity no matter how well it is managed. The definition of ‘adventure’ is that outcome is uncertain.
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@billb, although I often see lone instructors with groups of children, there is usually a second 'helper' at the back when the group is larger than 6, it isn't always the case though, and certainly in the past it wasn't.
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I'm saddened (but not surprised) by the number of skiers and snowboarders who seem totally ignorant of the 10 FIS rules I linked to in my earlier post
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@Alastair Pink, +1.
There are many more people on the slopes now who have never taken, even a single, professional lesson. Self taught, or taught by mates. Most of them will never have even heard of the code.
It should be printed on the back of every lift pass, with “failure to comply will result in loss of this pass” in bold after it.
It might just help prevent such heartbreaking incidents like this from happening.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| peanuthead wrote: |
I just cannot see mitigation factor here. That is quite a wide piste and not as busy as Tourmaline. |
Those of us that ski off piste will know the old mantra when skiing in trees, don't look at the trees, look at the gaps. I am not sure how to explain it but if you look at the obstacle then you are more likely to hit it. I have seen a collision like that happen on a wide deserted piste when I was leading a group myself. The friend who was struck ended up with cracked ribs although it could have been worse.
I suspect that might have happened here.
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| billb wrote: |
Sorry, could I please repeat the question I asked earlier : (presumably lost amongst other posts)
Am I right in assuming that group lessons on piste (in France at least) are led by a single instructor, even for children? This person might be a highly competent skier but can't look everywhere at once. Could it be there should be TWO instructors for children's lessons with one at the back as a "lookout" (or look up)? It would cost more but perhaps this is the safer way forwards, given that slopes are especially busy in school holiday weeks when children are on the slopes.
As an aside, a primary school would never lead children along a footpath with a single adult so it does seem extraordinary that a group of young children can be left in the care of a single adult (possibly young and inexperienced) in a potentially lethal environment. |
Yes - on the main slopes they are normally led by one instructor. But there are dozens of other instructors from the same ski school on the slopes at the same time. If there's a problem - they have help almost instantly.
I've skied Serpentine in Flaine many many times. It's wide, open, with excellent visibility. You'd be able to see a ski lesson of kids snaking from side-to-side from a long way off - and should be able to give them a wide berth.
It's about as benign as ski slopes get in terms of objective dangers - no trees, few rocks (aside from getting lost if it's misty - there are few landscape features). The biggest risk would seem to people skiers going too fast - perhaps because it's so benign.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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One French article I've seen suggests this happened in the area in front of the Blanchot restaurant.
This is pretty much the widest, most open area on the entire Serpentine piste.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sun 16-01-22 21:28; edited 1 time in total
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in 2009 just after my husband's accident I contacted the lift company in Serre Chevalier, I think Compagnie des Alpes had just taken over responsibility. The resort manager replied quite quickly, and was very reassuring that they were doing a lot to improve things. I will do a quick check on my next visit to see if this has been kept up, but included were more signage and barriers at busy corners (this has definitely happened), large notices on pylons reminding people to give way to the downhill skier and to control speed (also happened) and reinforcing safety teaching in ski lesssons. There were also extra pisteurs on duty at busy times. I don't have a piste map to hand to check if it is on there, but how many of you look at anything other than the map?
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You know it makes sense.
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| zikomo wrote: |
I see in other posts you are also splitting hairs about the FIS rules, . |
I've not split anything. I was clearly and obviously asking for another opinion regarding finer points.
I've cut you some slack as I've assumed that English isn't your first language due to your clumsy use of it.
Let's wind our necks in and rather than sling mud, respect the spirit in which the OP opened this post.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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This is a terrible thing to happen, and I feel so sorry for the parents.
They will never get over it.
We all must do our utmost to try to stay safe and make sure we are not the cause of one of these incidents.
I've got to put my hands up and admit I've been involved in a few incidence myself and I'm very sorry.
I've crashed into a guy at speed and cracked his ribs. I'm not proud of it, I've got to learn from this.
I worry for my Granddaughter.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Hells Bells, @frejul, thanks. Also, if it happened near the Blanchot, that's just below the end of the Cristal piste natural half pipe I think. People tend to bomb it a bit through that - but that's speculation only. Need more information.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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They put up signs over Grand Massif today asking people for “respect” and “control”… might be a coincidence given how little time passed
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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two years of lockdowns etc have not been especially favourable to the waistline
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Back protectors do work
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I am hoping to ski before the end of the season. At the moment, I don't think my back protector will fit under my jacket and I need to take some action to make sure it does again. Back protectors are a very good idea.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Also covered in a bbc or C4 documentary a few years ago, about the “anatomy” of a fatal car crash on a winding country lane. A team of expert scientists/psychologists looked at the entire thing, all events from leaving home to the collision, almost frame by frame.
They mentioned the phenomenon of both drivers/riders invariably both taking evasion action that means they’re more likely to collide, their instinct is to both take the same path.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 16-01-22 22:25; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We skied in 3V in mid december. 7 times in 6 days, on completely empty pistes, when the two of us were on one side of the piste doing regular fairly narrow turns, one behind the other and while using no more than a third width of the piste, often less, we were passed at very high speed, very very closely (closest actually went over the tail of my OH's skis), completely unnecessarily. They all had something in common though. They were all teletubbies. We represented some potential dare to otherwise uneventful piste runs for Candide wannabees without the balls to go off piste. We haven’t seen it this bad in over 20 years. Hopefully not a factor in these collisions, but my OH said at the time (maybe prophetically) "they need to sort that out, or someone will die when it's busy".
Condolences to all involved.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| frejul wrote: |
One French article I've seen suggests this happened in the area in front of the Blanchot restaurant.
This is pretty much the widest, most open area on the entire Serpentine piste.
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I think sometimes the widest areas can be the most dangerous as they encourage the largest speed differences between the fast carvers and beginners- just a catched edge or misjudgement could lead to serious injury. Whereas nobody is going to be going to quickly down a crowded narrow icy path.
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| garbageman wrote: |
We skied in 3V in mid december. 7 times in 6 days, on completely empty pistes, when the two of us were on one side of the piste doing regular fairly narrow turns, one behind the other and while using no more than a third width of the piste, often less, we were passed at very high speed, very very closely (closest actually went over the tail of my OH's skis), completely unnecessarily. They all had something in common though. They were all teletubbies. We represented some potential dare to otherwise uneventful piste runs for Candide wannabees without the balls to go off piste. We haven’t seen it this bad in over 20 years. Hopefully not a factor in these collisions, but my OH said at the time (maybe prophetically) "they need to sort that out, or someone will die when it's busy".
Condolences to all involved. |
I’m a confident skier, but take it easy on packed ‘roads’ for my safety as much as anyone’s. I don’t want to fall or hurt anyone else. I try to execute short turns or even slip-slide a bit if it’s churned up chaos.
It always surprises me on steep, packed ‘roads’ with a very steep rocky downslope to one side if it all goes wrong, how wannabee World Cup racers (in their imagination) bomb down the road’s very edge at twice the speed of all the other skiers.
I have no skiing hang ups, they don’t scare me as a skier, but they’re literally 15cm from it going badly wrong for them or others. Whizzing past very nervous skiers, who do not take a predictable path.
I wouldn’t do it.
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@Snow&skifan, I have watched a YouTube videos of American piste patrols lifting passes from youths for various misdeeds. Quite a few of these patrol guys are proper a-holes, but I wonder if we need them in europe now. I don't want them, but possibly necessary.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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That are teletubbies and Candide wannabees in this context?
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| garbageman wrote: |
| @Snow&skifan, I have watched a YouTube videos of American piste patrols lifting passes from youths for various misdeeds. Quite a few of these patrol guys are proper a-holes, but I wonder if we need them in europe now. I don't want them, but possibly necessary. |
Before we started a family (the cost of kids LOL) we skied Winter Park, Colorado and Lake Louise/Banff.
I can still recall the patrollers, to me they seemed to operate near “slow” signs or merging pistes. Very visible and with real powers.
Reassuring.
In Europe, this isn’t a national traits thing, imho. Kamikaze skiers - I’ve seen plenty of French, Italians, Brits and Dutch, for example, who love sheer straight line speed on busy greens and blues.
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FAQ
