 Poster: A snowHead
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Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 14-06-21 16:16; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hope you're feeling better.
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I am thank you  I've messaged you separately aswell!
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It's an age-old conundrum of course, balancing work and pleasure. I save up all year and live as frugally as I can manage before setting off for the winter.
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It's a smart way to go about it all!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| swskier wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| The other option is to find a job in/close to the Alps. In CH there are several cities (eg Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Fribourg, Zürich) with Int’l companies within day tripping distance to the mountains. It’s quite feasible to get in 50 days of skiing over weekends and holidays, without giving up your profession. The Summers here are also great |
The ideal option for me probably, trying, but not easy! |
It’s getting harder as most companies are trying to reduce Swiss based headcounts due to the high salary costs. I helped someone else do this by getting a list of International companies in the area that he then contacted. Was for IT positions. Can try and dig it out if any use?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| swskier wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| The other option is to find a job in/close to the Alps. In CH there are several cities (eg Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Fribourg, Zürich) with Int’l companies within day tripping distance to the mountains. It’s quite feasible to get in 50 days of skiing over weekends and holidays, without giving up your profession. The Summers here are also great |
The ideal option for me probably, trying, but not easy! |
It’s getting harder as most companies are trying to reduce Swiss based headcounts due to the high salary costs. I helped someone else do this by getting a list of International companies in the area that he then contacted. Was for IT positions. Can try and dig it out if any use? |
If you can dig it out, i'd be eternally grateful. I know I started a thread on it a while back, and you as well as others were very helpful in providing some names, but any info you've got would be amazing!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| orioriori89 wrote: |
| Very often when I tell people I am a ski instructor and that I indeed want to make a career out of it I am met with a few reactions. One is just stunned silence, they can't comprehend it, sometimes people get angry about it, they call it a waste of my education, but most often I find myself being simply job shamed. I understand that it has a lower income than many jobs, but I personally think if you work hard then the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. |
Those don't sound like the reactions of educated people.
I'm not convinced that they are specific to your choice of work, other than that you can do it without higher education.
My school-friends all had to leave school at 16.
I'd expect they, and my teachers, to have given me a very hard time if I'd not turned my advantage - an education - into financial success.
I could imagine they would have been angry that I'd failed to "make it";
that I'd "wasted a place" one of my mates could have taken and made use of;
or that even the sharpest they produced had been defeated again by the system.
I think education's kind of like money: not important if you've got it.
And careers...need to be way more flexible than some people still apparently believe.
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| orioriori89 wrote: |
*she
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Bravo to another female physicist (ok, ex-physicist)!
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- but yes this I think is very true. I looked at the possibility of spending my life locked away in a lab (which I had seen happen at facilities I did research at) and achieve "nothing". The notion of nothing in physics and all sciences is a bit of a tricky one. Say for example my dissertation. I was searching for evidence of a decay, which should not be possible with our current particle model, in some of CERNs data. We analysed it for months and months and months and found exactly nothing. As expected. And just like the previous studies. In physics this is not a worthless study, however - we set the worlds best limit (not hard when there's not much being done on it) on this particular measurement meaning we knew with more certainty than before that there was nothing there. So in physics they might say sure this was useful, but the reality was it wasn't exactly groundbreaking stuff. It gave me an insight into what my future in physics might look like. Working hard and getting good results does not equate to making some kind of breakthrough or hugely contributing.
I have chosen to pick a career with smaller milestones, more regular and obvious feedback. I wasn't okay with the idea of wasting my time as you mention.
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In case you haven't noticed (I doubt it though  ), "analysed it for months and months and months" is a skill that's in high demand, especially in today's "big data" age. "Mining" all kind of data is highly profitable for many commercial or non-commercial enterprise. Data scientist is a not-so-niche position that's highly compensated. So that's another option you may consider that would provide the "smaller milestones, more regular and obvious feedback" you like.
I bet in your work, you've been exposed to some of the cutting edge data analysis tools as you're working at CERN. Perhaps you even customized and enhanced them, probably pushing the capability for analyzing gigantic data sets in the course of your dissertation work? It's a highly sought after skill set in the commercial data science field. Though far more importantly, the mindset of digging though huge data set to hunt for minute feature is properly recognized as data scientist candidates.
Or use that skill in your ski instructor work wherever you find it suits. In short, that education is not "wasted" in any way. 
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Though far more importantly, the mindset of digging though huge data set to hunt for minute feature is properly recognized as data scientist candidates
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Haha, it's true, I definitely got very used to trawling through data and sometimes it is easy to forget the value of being able to data analyse. I use relatively simple data analysis every week right now for ski instructor work in terms of my website. Each week I do a survey-based article, analysing results and using these to create content. It's a bit of a different approach but it means I can still use these analysis skills even in a way that wasn't expected and there isn't much out there like that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I don't think I'd be impressed if it were your only job, unless you did it all year round in a fridge as well for example. But most instructors I've met have it as part of a "portfolio career" - I met a bloke in Andorra who was a ski instructor all winter, and a sparky the rest of the time. I was impressed!
A lot will be jealousy, mind. People are envious of those who have a calling rather a job.
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don't think I'd be impressed if it were your only job, unless you did it all year round in a fridge as well for example
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Corona aside I did intend to be doing both seasons by traversing hemisphere.
You say you wouldn't be impressed but you would be impressed if they were also a sparky. What is it that determines whether or not you're impressed? Is it the choice to work just the instructing, the ability to work another job, or the choice of the job itself? No judgement just curious as to your point of view.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| The other option is to find a job in/close to the Alps. In CH there are several cities (eg Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Fribourg, Zürich) with Int’l companies within day tripping distance to the mountains. It’s quite feasible to get in 50 days of skiing over weekends and holidays, without giving up your profession. The Summers here are also great |
I wholeheartedly agree. It’s a fantastic lifestyle here and I love some of the smaller resorts 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| The other option is to find a job in/close to the Alps. In CH there are several cities (eg Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Fribourg, Zürich) with Int’l companies within day tripping distance to the mountains. It’s quite feasible to get in 50 days of skiing over weekends and holidays, without giving up your profession. The Summers here are also great |
I wholeheartedly agree. It’s a fantastic lifestyle here and I love some of the smaller resorts |
Proximity to the mountain may not that high on the OP's priority. Mentioned working in CERN (Geneva). But that wasn't enough, apparently.
This being a ski forum. Everyone automatically assumes anyone who want to be a ski instructor in order to ski as much as possible. But I don't think it's always the case. The OP indicates it's more about a teaching career that happens to involve skiing.
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Proximity to the mountain may not that high on the OP's priority. Mentioned working in CERN (Geneva). But that wasn't enough, apparently.
This being a ski forum. Everyone automatically assumes anyone who want to be a ski instructor in order to ski as much as possible. But I don't think it's always the case. The OP indicates it's more about a teaching career that happens to involve skiing.
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The issue with CERN was the job itself- I really didn't enjoy it. I'd ofcourse be open to jobs located near by to mountains. As you say it's a best of both worlds kind of deal.But for now instructing is the one job I've really loved. I would take a bit of convincing to change jobs if I didn't need to per se.
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You know it makes sense.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Now we've looked at your file Mr Swskier and I think we've built up a pretty clear picture of the sort of person you are and I think we can say without fear of contradiction that the ideal career for you is chartered accountancy. |
But I want to be a Lion Tamer!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Reminds me of the time 20yrs ago I had a beer with a physicist at JFK airport while waiting for a flight to Geneva. We were both headed to Val D'isere for some skiing but he was supposedly also attending a conference. Ten minutes later our neighbor joined the convo, well here we had a super smart guy who was a little surprised to hear he was meant to spend much of his time skiing.
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Poster: A snowHead
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IMHO the best possible job is one you enjoy.
My favourite job ever was when we owned a resto in Avoriaz.
In the 4 months it was open each season, it made enough to live (frugally) from, but was never going to generate the kind of money needed to put 3 kids thru uni.
Like most pragmatic people I took a job I enjoy much less, but facilitates our life-goals.
I don't understand why job-shaming is a thing though.
1: its nobody else's goddam business
2: Would you shame a jobless person ?
3: I can only think it comes thru an inherent lack of satisfaction in ones own work/life situation, which is somehow alleviated by projecting this onto another person's career choices.
4: Demonstrates a lack of understanding & respect of others.
I have met quite a lot of MP's(from 3 parties), and while I might not respect what they stand for or how they go about their work, I absolutely respect their career choice, and their reasons for entering politics ( normally they want to help make the world a better place). They get slagged off left right and centre, and none of the ones I have met are in it for the money.
About 10 months ago a work colleague jacked in her job to go and get a Yachtmaster qualification.
A few people where I worked questioned her sanity leaving a 100K CHF job for a poorly paid itinerant lifestyle.
She is now sailing peoples yachts around the world getting ready for the Summer, and we're still the same tired old keyboard warriors.
Snowsports Instructor - FI_Ick Yeah !
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| swskier wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| swskier wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| The other option is to find a job in/close to the Alps. In CH there are several cities (eg Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Fribourg, Zürich) with Int’l companies within day tripping distance to the mountains. It’s quite feasible to get in 50 days of skiing over weekends and holidays, without giving up your profession. The Summers here are also great |
The ideal option for me probably, trying, but not easy! |
It’s getting harder as most companies are trying to reduce Swiss based headcounts due to the high salary costs. I helped someone else do this by getting a list of International companies in the area that he then contacted. Was for IT positions. Can try and dig it out if any use? |
If you can dig it out, i'd be eternally grateful. I know I started a thread on it a while back, and you as well as others were very helpful in providing some names, but any info you've got would be amazing! |
Alas struggling to find it but this link is useful. Download the industry sector fact sheets too for more details on companies by sector. You can then use LinkedIn to find job vacancies or just write to them directly. Network is very important in CH so if you have any personal contacts that can also help A lot
https://www.invest-vaud.ch/
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| The other option is to find a job in/close to the Alps. In CH there are several cities (eg Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Fribourg, Zürich) with Int’l companies within day tripping distance to the mountains. It’s quite feasible to get in 50 days of skiing over weekends and holidays, without giving up your profession. The Summers here are also great |
This is Utopia |
But quite achievable if you are determined, flexible and have up to date skills
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| The other option is to find a job in/close to the Alps. In CH there are several cities (eg Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Fribourg, Zürich) with Int’l companies within day tripping distance to the mountains. It’s quite feasible to get in 50 days of skiing over weekends and holidays, without giving up your profession. The Summers here are also great |
This is Utopia |
But quite achievable if you are determined, flexible and have up to date skills |
Most definitely as you have shown.
Utopia may have been the right sentiment but the wrong word.
Paradise Found?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| swskier wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| swskier wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| The other option is to find a job in/close to the Alps. In CH there are several cities (eg Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Fribourg, Zürich) with Int’l companies within day tripping distance to the mountains. It’s quite feasible to get in 50 days of skiing over weekends and holidays, without giving up your profession. The Summers here are also great |
The ideal option for me probably, trying, but not easy! |
It’s getting harder as most companies are trying to reduce Swiss based headcounts due to the high salary costs. I helped someone else do this by getting a list of International companies in the area that he then contacted. Was for IT positions. Can try and dig it out if any use? |
If you can dig it out, i'd be eternally grateful. I know I started a thread on it a while back, and you as well as others were very helpful in providing some names, but any info you've got would be amazing! |
Alas struggling to find it but this link is useful. Download the industry sector fact sheets too for more details on companies by sector. You can then use LinkedIn to find job vacancies or just write to them directly. Network is very important in CH so if you have any personal contacts that can also help A lot
https://www.invest-vaud.ch/ |
Thank you, appreciated! I will buy you a beer once my move is complete!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| The other option is to find a job in/close to the Alps. In CH there are several cities (eg Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Fribourg, Zürich) with Int’l companies within day tripping distance to the mountains. It’s quite feasible to get in 50 days of skiing over weekends and holidays, without giving up your profession. The Summers here are also great |
This is Utopia |
But quite achievable if you are determined, flexible and have up to date skills |
Also easily doable from London without the need to relocate. I get 45-50 days skiing each season whilst holding down a reasonably demanding job that I enjoy a lot.
The only material differences between a trip for me, and one for someone living in Geneva, is that it takes me 5-6hrs more (round trip) and costs £150 more. Day trips aren't quite worth the hassle, but I do plenty of Friday out/Sunday back for 2 days skiing.
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| snowdave wrote: |
| Day trips aren't quite worth the hassle, . |
Beauty of living here is you can pop out for a couple of hours, and come back in when it suits you
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| swskier wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| Now we've looked at your file Mr Swskier and I think we've built up a pretty clear picture of the sort of person you are and I think we can say without fear of contradiction that the ideal career for you is chartered accountancy. |
But I want to be a Lion Tamer! |
on piste?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| snowdave wrote: |
Also easily doable from London without the need to relocate.. |
it may not be next season of course depending on the situation.
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| WindOfChange wrote: |
| snowdave wrote: |
| Day trips aren't quite worth the hassle, . |
Beauty of living here is you can pop out for a couple of hours, and come back in when it suits you |
Sure, - my key point was that if you're trying to combine a job you enjoy and lots of skiing, being located in any major city with regular flights to Geneva is little different to being located in a major Swiss city. This essentially means you can do almost any "conventional" job, in London, Frankfurt, Paris etc., and ski a lot.
Clearly, being in resort itself gives you that opportunity to pop out for an hour or 2. That also requires a job that lets you do that - even if I were in resort, most days I'll have pre-arranged VCs that mean I can't just head out when I want. Then again, I have mates who live in resort who ski less than me; I call it "Seasonaire's Disease" - only wanting to go out if it's blue sky/powder whereas once I've put the effort into flying over, I'll go out in anything!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| davidof wrote: |
| snowdave wrote: |
Also easily doable from London without the need to relocate.. |
it may not be next season of course depending on the situation. |
True, tho' living in France wasn't much good post 15th March either from a skiing perspective this season!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| snowdave wrote: |
Sure, - my key point was that if you're trying to combine a job you enjoy and lots of skiing, being located in any major city with regular flights to Geneva is little different to being located in a major Swiss city. This essentially means you can do almost any "conventional" job, in London, Frankfurt, Paris etc., and ski a lot.
Clearly, being in resort itself gives you that opportunity to pop out for an hour or 2. That also requires a job that lets you do that - even if I were in resort, most days I'll have pre-arranged VCs that mean I can't just head out when I want. Then again, I have mates who live in resort who ski less than me; I call it "Seasonaire's Disease" - only wanting to go out if it's blue sky/powder whereas once I've put the effort into flying over, I'll go out in anything! |
Seasonaire's disease is definitely a real phenomenon but there is definitely also a ballache factor to weekend trips - managing your workday on getaway day, airport faff, late transfers the other side often to ski some fairly mediocre or worse conditions. Can get exhausting if you try to pack too many in. Probably works for CHX due to the number of shuttles.
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@snowdave, You're right about the seasonaire disease.
I get more Piste time now (Regular job in Nyon, CH) than when we had a restaurant in Avoriaz.
I try and make sure my schedule is free from meetings in the afternoons on days when I WFH so I can get a cheeky hour or 2, and then go back on line later to catch up with colleagues in the US.
I did the commuting thing for 6 months (Friday 4:30 Pm flight from City airport, Monday 7AM flight from GVA) which worked well in the season as Swiss was cheapish if you were organised and booked in advance.
I know and work with lots of people who live in GVA and Lausanne and who come up at weekends, but like Ray Bradbury said "If they give you lined paper, then write the other way".
So we do the opposite - live in the mountains and commute down for work.
Unless you get some amazing lake front gaff, you are much better at altitude as the air quality (smog) is bad in the leman basin, the Annecy basin and the valley de l'Arve.
So many days it's bright and sunny up here, and then I descend down below a carpet of cloud for my working day, before escaping again in the evening.
look at jobup.ch - there's loads of jobs on there.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| The other option is to find a job in/close to the Alps. In CH there are several cities (eg Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Fribourg, Zürich) with Int’l companies within day tripping distance to the mountains. It’s quite feasible to get in 50 days of skiing over weekends and holidays, without giving up your profession. The Summers here are also great |
This is Utopia |
But quite achievable if you are determined, flexible and have up to date skills |
Most definitely as you have shown.
Utopia may have been the right sentiment but the wrong word.
Paradise Found? |
In my case it was getting married and wanting to start a family that brought us back from a 4 year stint in Australia. Switzerland just happened to be where work offered me a transfer too that was close to the UK, and our families. So in my case it was luck and not the stuff above. But being here I see it is very achievable if you have the motivation, and with a decent job, it’s for sure a better quality of life for a family, than the UK
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@WindOfChange, that's a nice way round to do it. Sunrise and sunset in the mountains!
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Poster: A snowHead
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@swskier, here’s the original list I had:
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| snowdave wrote: |
Sure, - my key point was that if you're trying to combine a job you enjoy and lots of skiing, being located in any major city with regular flights to Geneva is little different to being located in a major Swiss city. This essentially means you can do almost any "conventional" job, in London, Frankfurt, Paris etc., and ski a lot.
Clearly, being in resort itself gives you that opportunity to pop out for an hour or 2. That also requires a job that lets you do that - even if I were in resort, most days I'll have pre-arranged VCs that mean I can't just head out when I want. Then again, I have mates who live in resort who ski less than me; I call it "Seasonaire's Disease" - only wanting to go out if it's blue sky/powder whereas once I've put the effort into flying over, I'll go out in anything! |
Seasonaire's disease is definitely a real phenomenon but there is definitely also a ballache factor to weekend trips - managing your workday on getaway day, airport faff, late transfers the other side often to ski some fairly mediocre or worse conditions. Can get exhausting if you try to pack too many in. Probably works for CHX due to the number of shuttles. |
I only worked one season but I only did not ski one day (excluding transfer days when I worked 8am til 11pm) the whole season.
Obviously I was disgustingly keen and it was partly because I knew I would be starting a "proper career" when I got home and this was the one opportunity I had to really sort out my skiing. I was also 23 and had the constitution of an ox which helped with burning candles at both ends. My non-skiing girlfriend ( who I met in resort) tried to deploy all sorts of rather delightful tactics to deter me from getting up to go skiing and was understandably rather put out that they weren't more effective  I took the attitude that such antics could wait until the lifts were shut
There were of course plenty of seasonaires who hardly ever got out and some who had worked multiple seasons and were still cr@p skiers. Each to their own.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| BobinCH wrote: |
@swskier, here’s the original list I had:
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Thank you again! I've actually applied for a role at Nestle this morning, which i'm over qualified for, but, worth trying to start somewhere.
I'll take some time to go through these companies over the weekend.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| PrimroseAndBlue wrote: |
| I don't think I'd be impressed if |
This is the thing. Why do people feel the need to declare whether they are impressed? Or even more to the point whether they are not impressed? It doesn't matter.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| swskier wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
@swskier, here’s the original list I had:
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Thank you again! I've actually applied for a role at Nestle this morning, which i'm over qualified for, but, worth trying to start somewhere.
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Nestle treat their staff about as well as they treat the environment and suppliers so with any luck you won't get the job.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| davidof wrote: |
| swskier wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
@swskier, here’s the original list I had:
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Thank you again! I've actually applied for a role at Nestle this morning, which i'm over qualified for, but, worth trying to start somewhere.
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Nestle treat their staff about as well as they treat the environment and suppliers so with any luck you won't get the job. |
This wasn’t my experience. Have you worked for them in Switzerland?
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I agree with the sentiment that a decent job in and around the Alps is a great quality of life trade for a family.
@snowdave, I've done the weekend hopping a fair bit but find it quite pricey and utterly exhausting. Where do you ski? Have you got your own place & car out there?
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@LittleBullet, own place, rental car (less hassle than my own, somebody else deals with servicing and MOT!) or private transfer.
I ski in Chamonix which is an easy drive. 2-3 days full on skiing is tiring, but the travel makes no material difference to me either effort or price wise. I either use Avios or bulk-buy my tickets so it’s about £150 return each time when I pay, and I probably average closer to £75. 2019/20 season I did 5 weekends (2-3 days), 1 fortnight, a week, and had 2 weeks and a long weekend that fell victim to COVID.
Pre COVID I was on a plane most weeks anyway so I’m quite used to it (I sleep really well on planes!) and BA looks after me pretty well so I find it a reasonable experience. Even travelling with pre-teen kids for weekends is doable, we’ve done a few of those now.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@snowdave, how many of those 5 weekend runs got derailed by winter storms?
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| orioriori89 wrote: |
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don't think I'd be impressed if it were your only job, unless you did it all year round in a fridge as well for example
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Corona aside I did intend to be doing both seasons by traversing hemisphere.
You say you wouldn't be impressed but you would be impressed if they were also a sparky. What is it that determines whether or not you're impressed? Is it the choice to work just the instructing, the ability to work another job, or the choice of the job itself? No judgement just curious as to your point of view. |
I'd say it is having multiple trades that would impress me more, although I appreciate the skill needed to be an instructor.
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