 Poster: A snowHead
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@clarky999, but the quarantined areas (Paznaun, St Anton, Sölden) will remain so. The Austrians seem to be one of the few with plans (or at least publicly known ones anyway) to start coming out of the shut downs.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| Seems like a lot of restrictions will be lifted here (Tyrol) from tonight... For example will be allowed to go running again. It *SEEMS* (ie please don't take my word for it) that technically skitouring and MTB will no longer be prohibited either - though it's still asked that people don't go (again, SEEMS). |
That's how I read it too, and things like taking a longer walk that crosses into the next Gemeinde, something that is easy to do once you get up onto the forest path. And we can go shopping in the city again. I never thought I would be so happy to be allowed to go to Lidl 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sounds promising. Hopefully it works and other countries will be able to follow suit once they get over the peak...
This was the comment on the Guardian
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Interesting use of technology being proposed, either by smartphone app or a dedicated tracking device.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Interesting use of technology being proposed, either by smartphone app or a dedicated tracking device. |
Yep and seems most people supportive if it means a quicker end to the lockdown. Can see this crisis accelerating the use of technology in many domains
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Yep and seems most people supportive if it means a quicker end to the lockdown. Can see this crisis accelerating the use of technology in many domains |
Yes, although I'm sure many will expect there to be a sunset clause in whatever legislation underpins that requirement.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Interesting use of technology being proposed, either by smartphone app or a dedicated tracking device. |
Yep and seems most people supportive if it means a quicker end to the lockdown. Can see this crisis accelerating the use of technology in many domains |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| Yep and seems most people supportive if it means a quicker end to the lockdown. Can see this crisis accelerating the use of technology in many domains |
Yes, although I'm sure many will expect there to be a sunset clause in whatever legislation underpins that requirement. |
Not sure about that. The idea of using mobile data has been mentioned, but I haven't seen any mention of compulsory use - definitely nothing about extra devices for those without phones - in the media here, and definitely haven't heard public support for the idea either... I could be wrong of course and/or have missed it. Or perhaps the Guardian have got something lost in translation?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@clarky999, Yeah, I read that in Bob's post above, muttered a few expletives and went off looking for the evidence. Nothing, so I hope it doesn't go further. The graun had some errors in their posts about Austria a few weeks ago, so I don't think you can take it as totally accurate on foreign news, not that you ever could
Also, really really surprised at the Tirol restrictions getting lifted – I was sure they would at least eek it out till the 13th just for the hell of it. It wouldn't make much sense after that though if they started opening other shops and no-one could get to them. They must be under a lot of pressure to loosen the restrictions with the infection numbers dropping so much.
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It was the Graun so it probably meant Austrailia 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Scarlet This site has some very good graphics of the progress of the virus in Austria https://npgeo-corona-npgeo-de.hub.arcgis.com/app/1b9af672fe1140329ebff73b2ca8d722 . As you can see the main concentration of the virus was in ski resorts, Landeck, St Johann im Pongau & Kitzbühel etc (click the Bezirke button top right) which has now subsided given that the populations have dropped a lot and they have been quarantined (shown by the graphs with new infections dropping to almost none). The level of infection in the rest of the country is actually very low compared with most other places. Given the huge economic pressures to get society functioning again it makes sense to move forward with slowly getting back to some sort of normalcy. I suspect a lot of people will be observing what happens in Austria.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| Yep and seems most people supportive if it means a quicker end to the lockdown. Can see this crisis accelerating the use of technology in many domains |
Yes, although I'm sure many will expect there to be a sunset clause in whatever legislation underpins that requirement. |
Absolutely all states will need to have mandatory sunsetting on their use of tracking technology and not to pull the coercive "accept it without protections or don't go out" trick. No greater gift for a future authoritarian government than a population that has already surrendered fundamental rights and protections.
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Just saw this which gives a bit of background on what has been happening in the Tirol
Slovakia registered 49 new cases of coronavirus infections in 24 hours, Prime Minister Igor Matovič said today — an increase of more than 10 percent over the total number of infections detected previously. The total number of infections now stands at 534.
The results were based on 1,036 tests, the lowest number of samples examined in a week. A total of 14,667 tests have been carried out to date.
According to Matovič, 34 of the positive results came from a large group of people who had returned from the region of Tyrol, Austria, and were therefore obliged to have themselves tested.
Chief Hygienist Ján Mikas said there were more than 130 people in the group, some of whom had worked in restaurants or doing other jobs.
The folk who were shipped back to the UK were not subject to any tests as far as I know......
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You know it makes sense.
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@munich_irish, interesting, thanks, I hadn’t seen that site before. I know why they’ve done it this way, but it still amuses me that the numbers per 100,000 population give results such as 18, where the actual number is only 5 because nobody really lives there I was surprised my own region of Innsbruck-Land was relatively low, given the proximity to ski resorts in all directions, number of people who work in tourism and slightly higher population.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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For the data munchers, in addition to @munich_irish’s link to the Austrian dashboard above, Tirol now have their own dashboard which breaks the numbers right down into Gemeinde (essentially villages): https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/d225672c788d4847b231f1283d63aead/page/page_3/
I think the total population of Tirol is about 765,000. You can now see that the number of active infections has been overtaken by the number of recoveries, which is nice.
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Poster: A snowHead
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A little update on how things are going in Tirol, based on my limited excursions.
I think we've done about six weeks now, since the ski stations closed. The first couple, when we were "quarantined" were pretty hard as we weren't really allowed out for exercise (too dangerous  ) and could only access the supermarket in the village. Once those restrictions were lifted, a week earlier than planned, things have been much easier. Also, since the first wave of shops opened almost two weeks ago, any essential item restrictions were lifted.
We were going to take the bikes up the mountain a bit today, but the weather was a bit dodgy and we didn't fancy hurtling down in the wet, so we stayed pretty low and did a loop around the airport (~40km). There are counters on the route that were all in the 650-800 range, which I'd guesstimate as being a little lower than normal, but maybe only 10% as it's usually quieter on Saturdays. I'd expect double that in the week, but haven't been down to check. There is a beach at the end of the runway which was quite busy despite the rain, and lots of cyclists and walkers on the paths.
Mask wearing was higher than I've seen before, which I guess is a result of them being compulsory in shops and buses. Approx 50% were tied around necks, under chins, hanging out of pockets etc. so the idea of them being a sterile(ish) item is clearly lost. The growth is also interesting because there has been a >75% reduction in the number of cases and therefore the chance of catching it since the beginning of March. There are now fewer than 400 known active cases in the whole of Tirol (pop 750,000), so the chances of picking it up wandering around outside appear to be pretty slim.
Another bonus this weekend – the ice cream parlours are open again, albeit with a reduced menu so that they can have two queues. I'd seen in an ad for another place further down the valley that they “obviously were not able to offer cones for hygiene reasons”, but there was none of that nonsense at Baggersee. What did seem counterproductive though was the cordoning off of the benches outside the parlour which meant everyone was crowded into the carpark with nowhere to sit  so we wandered back down the path a bit to find a suitable plot of grass.
For the first few weeks and around Easter, compliance was very high and it was easy to see that most people out and about were families, couples, or small groups of housemates. Despite the rules having not fully lifted yet (we're hoping for 1st May but full details are not out yet), it is clear from looking around and at social media that a lot of people are getting fed up and starting to defy the rules about meeting up etc. I saw three police patrols on that route at Easter, but none today, so maybe they have scaled back but I'm not certain about that. They will still fine you if caught I think.
Hairdressers open in about a week, but everyone has to wear masks so that will be interesting as I normally have to remove my glasses because they get in the way  I presume that also means I can't have a coffee in the two hours I'll be sitting there
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Hairdressers open in about a week, but everyone has to wear masks so that will be interesting as I normally have to remove my glasses because they get in the way I presume that also means I can't have a coffee in the two hours I'll be sitting there
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@Scarlet, I had my haircut the day the hairdressers opened here. I had to wear a mask as did my hairdresser but it didn‘t get in the way.
I was provided with coffee and allowed to drink it...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Gämsbock, Yes, I had mine done about a fortnight ago. Let's just say I'll give the hairdressers 2/10 for compliance, none of these things were remotely an issue *ahem* and I drank my coffee in peace...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Scarlet, there‘s a hairdressers opposite the main police station here. I walk past it on my way to the supermarket. From Day 1, none of the staff or customers had masks on...
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@Gämsbock, It's not actually law in Switzerland though, or is it? N says his was very compliant, but they're in the centre of town whereas mine is upstairs in a commercial building with no passing footfall.
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I should add that with <40 recorded infections in Tirol now, chances of being exposed are pretty slim. When we were out walking the other day, we were passed by a police car with three officers. All were wearing their masks on their chins (you have to wear them in vehicles if travelling with people you don't live with). If the police think it's nonsense, they don't have much chance getting anyone else to comply.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Scarlet, I‘ve not really figured out whether it‘s law or just a guideline. But it is at least „official advice“ for hairdressers. Don‘t think it‘s more than 1% on the street but that‘s not even a suggestion. We‘re running at about 5 new a week now in Basel so people don‘t seem to be unduly worried.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
| I should add that with <40 recorded infections in Tirol now, chances of being exposed are pretty slim. |
By way of a comparison with the UK, the ONS has just released a report in which they estimate 61,000 new Covid-19 infections per week in England in the last two weeks. The chances of getting a haircut here look slim for the next few weeks at least.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@rob@rar, To clarify, that's the total number, not the weekly rate, which would be about 5. Everyone gets tested several times afaik, so they can be recorded as "recovered" in the stats once the test comes back clear.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
| @rob@rar, To clarify, that's the total number, not the weekly rate, which would be about 5. Everyone gets tested several times afaik, so they can be recorded as "recovered" in the stats once the test comes back clear. |
Yup, the contrast is stark.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Scarlet wrote: |
| I should add that with <40 recorded infections in Tirol now, chances of being exposed are pretty slim. |
By way of a comparison with the UK, the ONS has just released a report in which they estimate 61,000 new Covid-19 infections per week in England in the last two weeks. The chances of getting a haircut here look slim for the next few weeks at least. |
I‘m not suggesting that the picture in the UK isn‘t vastly different to that in Austria and Switzerland - but comparing recorded infections (i.e. with a positive test) in one state in Austria to a modelled estimate of total infections (i.e. with many that aren‘t confirmed by positive tests) in the whole of England is just as disingenuous and misleading as the b0llocks the politicians are spouting at the moment.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Scarlet wrote: |
| I should add that with <40 recorded infections in Tirol now, chances of being exposed are pretty slim. |
By way of a comparison with the UK, the ONS has just released a report in which they estimate 61,000 new Covid-19 infections per week in England in the last two weeks. The chances of getting a haircut here look slim for the next few weeks at least. |
Not surprised with all the VE party congas and the like which appeared on social media....lockdown #2 coming.....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Gämsbock wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Scarlet wrote: |
| I should add that with <40 recorded infections in Tirol now, chances of being exposed are pretty slim. |
By way of a comparison with the UK, the ONS has just released a report in which they estimate 61,000 new Covid-19 infections per week in England in the last two weeks. The chances of getting a haircut here look slim for the next few weeks at least. |
I‘m not suggesting that the picture in the UK isn‘t vastly different to that in Austria and Switzerland - but comparing recorded infections (i.e. with a positive test) in one state in Austria to a modelled estimate of total infections (i.e. with many that aren‘t confirmed by positive tests) in the whole of England is just as disingenuous and misleading as the b0llocks the politicians are spouting at the moment. |
Disingenuous? Hardly. As you said yourself, the picture in the UK is vastly different to that in Austria, which was the only point I made. Scale up the situation in the Tyrol to Austria as a whole, add whatever compensation you would like to account for differences between actual test results measured in Austria and an estimation of new infections in the UK and you still end up with a vastly different situation. That's neither disingenuous nor misleading.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@rob@rar, I disagree - you quoted <40 recorded infections in Tirol (population 750k) with an estimated 61k per week in England (population 56 million). The point is valid, but for me at least, it carries a lot more weight when you don’t try to make it sound (even) worse than it is.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Gämsbock wrote: |
| @rob@rar, I disagree - you quoted <40 recorded infections in Tirol (population 750k) with an estimated 61k per week in England (population 56 million). The point is valid, but for me at least, it carries a lot more weight when you don’t try to make it sound (even) worse than it is. |
Sorry, I'm a bit bemused by this. How far out does that estimation need to be for you to think the situation that there is not a significant situation in the new infection rate between Austria and the UK? I'm not trying to make it sound worse, I'm simply pointing out the difference in the number of new infections, as a rough approximation.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
lockdown #2 coming.....
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we're still essentially in lockdown 1. A continued moderately high rate of infection, but not so bad as to overwhelm the health service, is my bet about the next few months. With big crowds, busy restaurants and pubs either forbidden or with very limited numbers, and emphasis on outdoor activities being safer, we might well avoid a further lockdown. Many of the "vulnerable" are still too scared to go anywhere, with people doing elaborate (and unnecessary) dances round each other on roads and pavements. I've just been out cycling and had fortunately anticipated the action of the silly cow who stepped off the pavement right into my path to ensure she was 12 foot away from a young guy walking the other day. Death wish. I suppose if I'd been an articulated lorry she'd have heard me.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Gämsbock wrote: |
| @rob@rar, I disagree - you quoted <40 recorded infections in Tirol (population 750k) with an estimated 61k per week in England (population 56 million). The point is valid, but for me at least, it carries a lot more weight when you don’t try to make it sound (even) worse than it is. |
Sorry, I'm a bit bemused by this. How far out does that estimation need to be for you to think the situation that there is not a significant situation in the new infection rate between Austria and the UK? I'm not trying to make it sound worse, I'm simply pointing out the difference in the number of new infections, as a rough approximation. |
Because every country will have more actual infections (what the ONS is estimating for England) than recorded infections (the actual positive tests given above for Tirol). So you’re taking 2 different measures, applying them to 2 different areas of vastly different populations and then saying that demonstrates how much worse the situation is in England as compared to Tirol. The situation is much worse, I’m not suggesting for a minute it’s not, but that comparison unnecessarily inflates your point and undermines your argument.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Gämsbock wrote: |
| The situation is much worse, I’m not suggesting for a minute it’s not, |
On that we can agree.
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