 Poster: A snowHead
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@billb, You're missing the point. The #1 reason for investing in winter tyres in the UK is that as soon as you've splashed out you KNOW we'll be guaranteed a mild winter.
In all seriousness, I live near Edinburgh, fit winters each year to one of our cars and can count on the fingers of one hand how many times they've been useful since 2010. BUT.....on the rare occasions when it has snowed I've sailed past folk stranded on gentle slopes. My wife & I keep our cars a long time, have space to store 4 tyres in the garage and just view the cost as spreading the wear over 8 tyres instead of 4 at a time.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Here’s an update from the OP. Ended up replacing by old merc e-class Estate RWD and now have a new e-class estate with 4matic (AWD). After lots of consideration, reading posts on snowHeads and trawling tyre reviews I’ve ended up choosing CrossClimate+ summer-biased all-season tyres which will be fitted tomorrow.
A) I didnt want to swap tyres twice yeary (£160 + storage)
B) the majority of my driving is pootling in London traffic
C) in reality I will only drive to the alps (Chatel) once or twice a winter season during Dec or February, but three times in spring/summer/autumn
D) AWD should add some benefit
E) I have also invested in easy fit chains as a backup
We are off to Chatel in October and keen to see how they behave cruising along the motorway. Also have a trip planned in February and hopefully I’ll be able to provide a complete review after these two trips.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sounds sensible. Our use is similar and we took a similar decision but got winters as well. But then we live outside london and have a garage to store the winters. Takes me about an hour twice a year to swap the wheels over. Not a job I particularly enjoy but not a big problem.
Had the car 3 winter seasons. Not sure we have had any benefit from AWD beyond peace of mind but that is worth something. Still carry chains in the ski season but haven't needed to consider using them.
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Someone early in this thread mentioned snow spikes rather than chains as being better tech....are they recognised as acceptable by French police at the bottom of the resort hill do we know? I think I read that snow socks are a bit subjective in that respect.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| MHskier wrote: |
| Someone early in this thread mentioned snow spikes rather than chains as being better tech....are they recognised as acceptable by French police at the bottom of the resort hill do we know? I think I read that snow socks are a bit subjective in that respect. |
I think the reference was to Spikes Spiders which are a form of very quick fit chain. I've used them for years and never had a problem with them nor been challenged by the police. The are expensive but they are very adjustable so you don't have to replace them when you change your car.
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| Ozboy wrote: |
Here’s an update from the OP. Ended up replacing by old merc e-class Estate RWD and now have a new e-class estate with 4matic (AWD). After lots of consideration, reading posts on snowHeads and trawling tyre reviews I’ve ended up choosing CrossClimate+ summer-biased all-season tyres which will be fitted tomorrow.
A) I didnt want to swap tyres twice yeary (£160 + storage)
B) the majority of my driving is pootling in London traffic
C) in reality I will only drive to the alps (Chatel) once or twice a winter season during Dec or February, but three times in spring/summer/autumn
D) AWD should add some benefit
E) I have also invested in easy fit chains as a backup
We are off to Chatel in October and keen to see how they behave cruising along the motorway. Also have a trip planned in February and hopefully I’ll be able to provide a complete review after these two trips. |
Ozboy, I'm also heading to the Portes Du Soleil for the season. Last time I did a season, 5 years ago, I was in a Land Rover Defender on snow tyres. Appalling on the motorway trip down, a pain in resort most days due to rubbish heater and unreliability. Yet on the 20 or so days when the snow was heavy, and I was heading out early, it was a simply brilliant vehicle. It was also superb at the Ardent car park as you could park it on round bits of piled up snow, near the lift, even if the rest of the carpark was full.
This time, I am going out with my wife and newborn baby. And my family car is an AMG Mercedes estate - rear wheel drive, low and powerful, and franlky a handful British roads when they are wet, even with all the driver aids engaged, let alone icy Alpine ones. Whilst I am sure that on winter tyres it would be fine most of the time, I am not confident that should the very worst happen in very bad weather, and I needed to get somewhere in an emergency, that it would fill me with confidence.
So I have arranged to lend it to someone for the winter here in London, and I am borrowing their 4x4 which is fitted with snow rated tyres and will cope with everything. Winter tyres are definitely the deciding factor, and locals make do in vans and cars with these fitted. But having done a season before, and watched my housemate's Audi estate struggle in the worst conditions, I've decided on a proper 4x4 again, this time around.
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| Quote: |
my family car is an AMG Mercedes estate - rear wheel drive, low and powerful, and franlky a handful British roads when they are wet, even with all the driver aids engaged
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which invites the question - why would you carry your family around in a car which is problematic on wet roads?
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| pam w wrote: |
| which invites the question - why would you carry your family around in a car which is problematic on wet roads? |
Cos he's a Flashman 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
my family car is an AMG Mercedes estate - rear wheel drive, low and powerful, and franlky a handful British roads when they are wet, even with all the driver aids engaged
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which invites the question - why would you carry your family around in a car which is problematic on wet roads? |
I should probably have been a bit more clear, and probably a bit less dramatic. It's not really problematic on wet roads if I drive it normally and with all the driver aids on etc, and I don't exactly use its full capabilities with the baby in the back. You do have to be judicious with throttle use in damp conditions, or the traction control light flickers and the car cuts power to the rear wheels. Such systems are fine in the wet. They aren't great on ice. The car is absolutely fine for normal use in the UK, and my wife drives it very happily in all conditions.
However, it's a very powerful car, it's rear wheel drive, and it's low enough that getting snow chains onto it would be a problem. And frankly even on winters, I am not a fan of rear wheel drive on snow/ice due to the driven wheels not being the ones doing the steering as well - a recipe for both understeer and oversteer in icy conditions, and less confidence inspiring on gradients. Hence not wanting to use it in the Alps, on icy roads, or in fresh snow.
This is not a problem in the Uk as a) we rarely drive, living and working in London, and b) we don't really get regularly bad conditions here in the south. I do see it as a problem in the Alps, in winter.
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Mind you, this is really just opinion. Germans and Austrians have been driving rear drive BMWs and Mercedes in snow and ice for generations, and they don't seem to get themselves killed any more or less than anyone else.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Ozboy wrote: |
Currently have a merc e-class estate and wondering if it will be ok for driving to the alps long term or if i should reluctantly change to a 4x4?
Our situation is we will take ownership of a holiday apartment in Chatel this summer and plan to drive a couple of times a year during winter (xmas week and 1/2 term) and also in summer. The property is up a hill on a well maintained centrally located road which I reckon has a gradient of around 5-7pct for about 500 meters. Our route to the alps will probably take us through CH which involves going over the Juras(?) and the Morgins pass. We are a family of 4. Doubt very much we would need to drive once we arrive in resort as we are close to the super Chatel lift.
My options are to either change the car to a 4x4 fitted with all seasons (with winter marking) or stick with current car and run winter marked all-seasons (carrying good chains). I have only driven 16k miles in almost 4 years and current car still feels quite new and my intention was to run this car for many years. Changing the car at this time seems unnecessary as it will be expensive and provide less cargo space. I don't have space at home to properly store a full set of winter tyres.
Question: would i be able to get by with the proposed setup of e-class with winter marked all-seasons and chains or should I bite the bullet and get a new 4x4? |
Get a set of winter tyres and if the weather is very bad go around to Geneva to avoid the Morgins Pass. For the last 500m just have chains along - just in case. But a good set of winter tyres and as trained driver you will only need chains in extreme weather.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Hyst, posted that earlier last year and I have since upgraded to an newer version e-class estate with AWD and all-seasons CrossClimates. Have Thule Easyfit CU-9 chains as backup.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Ozboy, The Easyfit chains are awesome. Kooky got a pair last year.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Scarpa, I hope I never have to find out 
They arrived on the weekend and will try fitting them soon.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Ozboy,  Although the ads show one being fitted in 12 seconds that is in perfect conditions. But they are damn easy, just make sure the central bar is lined up the same vertical way when you take them off.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| billb wrote: |
@welshskier, well, yes, of course winter tyres are better below 7C and in snow and ice. I was trying to make the point that summer tyres are better when the temperature rises I.e. most weeks of the year in the UK, on average. So I find it odd that someone would choose to run winter tyres all year. Summer tyres are called summer tyres for a reason but actually they are easily "three season" tyres in most of the UK.
I've driven summer tyres all year with no problem. I've rarely had abs operating and when it did was probably on loose road surface. |
I've never had an issue even when I got caught in a freak blizzard in my old race car on R compound tyres, was it pleasant? No. Would I do it by choice? No. Do I have two pairs of wheels / tyres for my car? Yes. Pilot Sport 4's for the summer and Goodyear Vector Gen2's for the winter.
I prefer having snowflake marked all seasons for Scotland come October time when the roads get wet and greasy, it doesn't often snow here until Jan / Feb but its nice to know my car is covered. If it turns into a silly warm winter like it has a few times then the PS4's get swapped back on, it takes me all of 20 mins.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dear All
Please can I add to this thread. I will be in Megeve from early January to late April. I am planning on taking my car with me an i10 1.2 engine. I have seen small cars in the Alps ( I think). Will it cope and what do I do about tyres? Should I change once I get to the Alps or before I leave? Do I have to have snow chains as well as winter tyres? I have seen something about Spikes Spiders...
I do not wish to play the distressed damsel card -but I am feeling a bit distressed as to how best to do this. I will be travelling there and back by myself and am small and slight and I want to make sure I am sorted properly before I go. Any tips would be much appreciated as I have never driven to Alps before. Many thanks in advance
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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BTW Missed that it is a Hyundai i10 -oops!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@tinabf, the car will be fine. You really should carry chains which are the correct size for your tyres as this is sensible as a measure of last resort if the driving conditions are very bad (and you might be directed by the local police to fit them if they are managing the traffic on the occasional days when the driving conditions are bad).
Winter tyres will give you much more traction when you are driving on snow (and in colder conditions, even on dry roads), will reduce the number of times when you have to fit chains to the car and generally be a safer option all round. Most locals will be using winter tyres. In some countries winter tyres are mandatory, although it's being discussed in France I'm not entirely certain if this is the case yet.
Spikes Spyders is a particular brand of snow chain which fit to the wheel (by connecting to a wheel nut) without going around the back of the tyre. Easier to fit as you don't have to grub around putting your arms behind the wheel, but more expensive to buy (and larger to carry around in the boot).
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| Quote: |
Please can I add to this thread. I will be in Megeve from early January to late April. I am planning on taking my car with me an i10 1.2 engine. I have seen small cars in the Alps ( I think). Will it cope and what do I do about tyres? Should I change once I get to the Alps or before I leave? Do I have to have snow chains as well as winter tyres? I have seen something about Spikes Spiders..
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@tinbf Get them done before you leave so you're good to get to the resort and you have a few months to pick your booking time etc, they'll be useful in the UK before you go anyway as it gets colder and wetter so no harm doing them anytime from now. If you're returning in later years you can store them or you can sell them on your return and get some of your money back. As @rob@rar says spikes spyder are a particular make of snowchain which you may have to use if directed to by the gendarmes and/or the weather is particularly bad; go for the simplest to put on to make your life as easy as possible. Most snowchain sites will tell you which fit your car and then read the description as to how simple they are to put on, remove. Practice in the relative warmth of the UK at least once before you go so you're not struggling with cold hands in a layby in the mountains.
Very envious of your 4 months in Megeve.
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@tinabf,
small light cars are better than large heavy ones - you don't need much power to take it easy on slippery roads
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@tinabf, In Megeve! I'd be more worried about parking costs. I'd be inclined just to put what "Le post" put on their cars, they get everywhere.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for all responses...This is proving to be much more expensive than I'd anticipated. But no parking costs to worry about at least!
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@tinabf, Having a car in Megeve will be useful for food shopping, the main supermarket is right at one end of the town or you may want to go down to Sallanches or Domancy. Winter tyres will make it much easier to just get in the car and drive somewhere, you don't need to plan ahead on whether you will need to put on the chains.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks @rjs, Do you live in Megeve or have lived there by any chance?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have Spike Spider Easy front-fitting chains, but as mentioned, these (and similar from Thule etc) are expensive (£300 for mine) albeit extremely easy to put on and they do fit a wider range of wheel sizes, so more likely to be transferable to your next car. Whether you go for these or something cheaper, bear in mind that many chains need or benefit from adjustment to fit your specific wheel/tyre size. So this also makes pre-fitting ahead of the trip a must.
It's obvious (although I didn't pick this up until recently) but it's a lot easier to test fit chains when there's not a car attached to the wheel  i.e. try the chains out first on your spare wheel if you have one. Especially if they need adjustments. ANd also if you need to roll the car forwards to finish the fitting. If they're the cheaper type, you can also see exactly how they're meant to sit on the inside of the tyre. You can then give it a go on the car once you're confident.
You can then also get a good idea of how best to store them for easy removal when you really need them: often, separating the two sets with a plastic bag or sheet will stop the usual 'chain spaghetti' that is a nightmare in the dark, up a mountain, in the snow. Also put in an old carpet piece to kneel on, and if you have them, an old pair of light gloves. Up the mountain, carry a head torch in the car, and keep your outdoor boots/shoes handy, so you can get back into dry driving shoes once you've fitted/removed the chains.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 9-10-18 11:44; edited 1 time in total
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Thanks for that...dare I mention that I don't even know where my spare tyre is...It's ok I have till Jan to get my poo-poo together folks. Thanks!
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You know it makes sense.
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@tinabf, I don't live in Megeve, I have done the last 13 winters in the Val d'Arly which is the next nearest lift system and know Megeve fairly well. Will post something in your other thread.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@tinabf, if you are there for the season and intend to use your car frequently, fitting winters before you go is a no brainer. Modern tyres have tread patterns designed for low noise, low rolling resistance etc but this results in a tread pattern that is frequently terrible on snow & ice. I have had vehicles with normal tyres fitted that have ground to a halt on quite shallow inclines and a very thin layer of snow.
The winter tyres on my van got thoroughly tested when we drove out to the gnarbug and sopib bashes, driving around deeply rutted snow & never once needed to fit the chains, having the normal tyres on the van would have been a royal pain in the butt as they barely grip on wet roads never mind snow.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
you may want to go down to Sallanches or Domancy
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I wouldn't bother - unless you have other errands to run. Being small and slight is irrelevant - putting on snow chains requires little in the way of strength and driving on snow and ice calls for light feet and finesse, not strength and heft. I am not only quite slight, but also extremely old, and can put chains on in the twinkling of an eye. Practice! Yes, you definitely need chains but you'll rarely need them getting to and from Megeve. If you need to use side roads they could well be needed, especially if (as you hope) it's another snowy winter. But I wouldn't bother investing in expensive fancy ones.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thank you! Perhaps you could do a You Tube video and post for us newbies! Practice - note taken
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@tinabf, if you are there for the season and intend to use your car frequently, fitting winters before you go is a no brainer. Modern tyres have tread patterns designed for low noise, low rolling resistance etc but this results in a tread pattern that is frequently terrible on snow & ice. I have had vehicles with normal tyres fitted that have ground to a halt on quite shallow inclines and a very thin layer of snow.
The winter tyres on my van got thoroughly tested when we drove out to the gnarbug and sopib bashes, driving around deeply rutted snow & never once needed to fit the chains, having the normal tyres on the van would have been a royal pain in the butt as they barely grip on wet roads never mind snow.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hi again Tina,
A few more tips from a pretty inept local:
- do get winter tyres in the UK, travelling there and back in Jan and April they can be more than useful even on the motorways.
- get chains too, and practice (without worrying too much, it's just an omnifaff when the time actually comes!)
- always have light e.g. gardening gloves (it's fiddly but dirty) and a torch in the car.
- use a car mat to kneel on. Don't worry about them getting dirty, you'll stick them under the wheels to get out of parking spaces anyway - it's less work than digging.
Small cars are fine and will mark you out as in the know. Especially Panda 4x4s. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Ugo, the resort snow car of choice was historically a 2cv, or a Lada Niva if you were Chelsea-style flash
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Ugo, the resort snow car of choice was historically a 2cv, or a Lada Niva if you were Chelsea-style flash |
Well I do feel a bit flash, what with the Panda not even being first generation; but at least it's got a solid roof not a beach awning like the deudeuche.
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FAQ
