 Poster: A snowHead
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| DrLawn wrote: |
| @Charliee, Whats wrong with breaststroke? |
its the way the legs kick out that can cause damage or hurt. stick to breaststroke arms and crawl legs
glad to hear you have a diagnosis
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| yorkshirelad wrote: |
| To reduce the swelling use a towel soaked in apple cider vinager, not drippng wet, but well damp and lay on the area and wrap with clingfilm, leave it for an hour at a time, works wonders, better than ice, which is not now recommenced anyway as ice causes damage !!! |
Ice is still recommended. you shouldn't put it directly on the skin - use an ice pack wrapped in a teatowel
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@DrLawn, as @balernoStu, wrote, the breaststroke kick may be very uncomfortable with lateral ligament damage - just try it gently, if it doesn't hurt go for it.
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The Apple vinager is proven, it causes a chemical reaction and 'draws out' the inflamation, look it up on the internet, ( also, yes it does have origins in jack n jill, because it worked !! bit like pressure points work to stop certain headaches...) Again check out new information regards RICE.... using ice is now found to cause more damage to tissue then it helps,
I was very sceptical about the apple-cider Vinegar , but i was shocked to see how it worked on my broken knee. just because it does not come in a tube and is prescribed by a doctor does not mean it does not work, here i only tried to pass on usefull information which helped me..as i wanted to get back skiing quicker than the doctors predicted...please ignore if you prefer drugs..
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@yorkshirelad, link for the ice damage please? I am not dissing the vinegar remedy.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Interesting...but he isn't a world authority.
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| Quote: |
look it up on the internet
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Must be true then 
(Not saying it is or isn't, but there is more than enough bogus information on the internet about pretty much any subject)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Oh No ! I just saw this thread and was mortified, your signing up for the PSB2016 was enough incentive for me to sign up too but now with much relief I see.....
| DrLawn wrote: |
| I'll see you all at the Montreaux Jazz Bar in December. |
I am not in great shape either but I recon even if I don't ski I will be able to make it to the bar and spa at Le Taos.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@yorkshirelad, I know this can be a controversial subject and I don't want to derail Dr.Lawn's thread into a discussion of the merits or otherwise of alternative therapies (happy to have that discussion elsewhere though). Personally I will stick to following the advice of professionals (Doctors / Physios etc) based on the current consensus.
I'm glad that you got your knee fixed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@holidayloverxx, & @yorkshirelad, In Austria many people use the quark cheese in a tea towel wrapped in clingfilm around the knee. Again, the reaction is documented and pharmacological companies now make poultice versions.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Scarpa, as I said..I wasn't dissing the vinegar remedy. I was sceptical about not using ice.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@holidayloverxx, Ah, hadn't seen your post lol. Yup, ice is highly recommended and I have found it brilliant especially for the first few days.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Well I'm still doing the ice ...
But I suppose it wont hurt to try the Vinager trick.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ah! ... So that's why I am very slow at breast stroke.
Anyway cheers all of you.
Update:
I'm still a bit swollen around the knee, and very stiff.
But I am able to walk, fairly well. But I know its stupid to walk too far.
The important thing is ... that every day its a bit better.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I remember that my parents would swear by wrapping swollen joints in a 'vinegar bandage'. I also remember mentioning this to a well-respected physio back in 1986 who was treating my badly swollen ankle. He dismissed this treatment as 'an old wives' tale'. Maybe there is something in this.
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I feel your pain my knees have been giving me trouble the last few years. When I went to physio they recommended hip exercises to take some pressure of the knees. Since I've started the hip excercises the knees have been feeling a lot better  . Wishing you a speedy recovery!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I just got a letter CC'd to me today from the Fracture Clinic.
This is a section of it:
"X-rays were not taken initially in A&E so I have conducted this today. There is small ossicle of bone on the
medial side of the knee which has the appearance of Pellegrini-Stieda lesion.
However, his knee is stable and he is non-tender here.
This may be chronic.
There is also possible suggestion of Segond fracture on the anterolateral tibial plateau in the context of his clinical examination I suspect he may have and this is difficult to interpret.
I suggested we see him in a few weeks' time once the swelling has settled and we can make a further assessment of the knee."
Now should I be worried?
I have a horrible feeling they are going to say "Nay" to me going skiing in a fortnight.
Bother .. I'm going anyway, but should I cart my skis?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's at times like this it would be useful to see Jonathan Bell on the forum if he has time
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@holidayloverxx, It would.
As was pointed out to me last Jan, only an MRI will show the true extent of a TPF (or ligament damage). Have you had a scan yet?
Is it 4 weeks since now, so 6 weeks when you go? I'm no expert but you'd be lucky to fully heal in that time even if it's minor. I wouldn't be risking it not being healed and making it worse. Some of the TPF fracture stuff I read was not pleasant... @holidayloverxx, old x-rays should be enough to put you off.
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@DrLawn, that jargon is quite scary  - do you have a date for the post-swelling follow up?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hi Guys & Gals thanks for the sympathy again.
I've got a date to visit the fracture clinic again next Friday.
Perhaps I'll push for the MRI now.
I'm almost sure he's going to say you cant go skiing anytime soon.
So I think I'll leave my skis at home on this PSB trip.
This may finally be the chance to have a go at snow boarding!!!!
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| DrLawn wrote: |
| I'm going anyway, but should I cart my skis? |
Glad to hear you are still coming. Hiring skis should be relatively cheap, not worth carting skis unless you have already booked carriage. You can always ski on the other leg. It is good training as I found out when I pulled a ligament at Vail.
I am not sure how much skiing I will be doing as I am suffering from Planar fasciitis and no chance to get into shape but I saw how nice the apartments look so not a bad place to hole up. The doc may advise you not to table dance at the Folie Douce and spare us that spectacle.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@DrLawn, We can still do lunch/apres! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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And spa time!
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You've all cheered me up!
One ski eh?
Yes .. I'll perfect, sorry I meant learn, to ski on one ski.
I'm lucky that its my left knee that is the problem, if I can ski on one leg, then I would naturally use the starboard one.
I could save weight and just bring my right boot as well.
I don't know if I can be on permanent apres ski duty, but I'll try ... Cheers!
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You know it makes sense.
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Went to the Fracture Clinic again yesterday.
The doc seemed very experienced and says that he is almost certain that I have damaged the meniscus.
He wants me to visit him again 30th December to see how its going and decide whether to do the Key Hole stuff.
He said I can do anything I like on it as long as it does not hurt...
I said, "so its OK to go skiing next week?"
No Way!!!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Oh dear... I would normally say that most consultants are often a little cautious and to see what the Physio says BUT given your stage and injury in this case think he is right
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Poster: A snowHead
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Menuscus? Pah...who needs it with strong quads hamstrings abd vmo? Seriously
Though you did say there might have been a fracture...is that ruled out? But it would probably be healed now so it's all about soft tissue
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@DrLawn, that is a real shame. I should have thought that they would want to be certain about meniscus damage before embarking on surgery and a scan would clearly identify a meniscus tear which won't get better on its own after this length of time but could possibly get worse if it's a bad one. I suspect it would also provide evidence of any other damage otherwise how can they make a sensible decision? They need serious prodding in that direction before your entire season falls into the NHS oblivion that is their ageist appointments system 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@DrLawn,
Sorry im a bit late to this. Pelligrini Stieda lesion ossicle suggests it is old. Old bone frangments are easily identified on xray. They have a coating of dense bone around the whole fragment ( like the sugar coat on a smartie). Freshly fractured bone is missing this layer on the fractured surface.
If you have a meniscus tear on scan thats helpful to know but by no means the most important factor. Here is what i consider if i see someone referred with a meniscus tear. Im not a fan of using an MRI as an electronic doctor as the scan provides no reasoning/decison making.
Was there and injury or did it just creep up on someone.
How long has it been present.
Which meniscus is it.
How irritable is it making the knee.
Is it causing secondary patella pain
Are the joint surfaces healthy?
How old is the patient.
What sport are they trying to do and what is their level of skill
What is the pattern of the tear ( horizontal/ displaced etc)
I send many people each year skiing with a simple medial meniscus tear if the knee isn't too irritable. Each case needs to be judged on the above but in essence if the knee isn't too sore and its a horizontal tear of the medial meniscus without a displaced fragment ( These are the commonest) ill "let" someone ski if they have a good technique ( red run carved turns etc). It is much more likely to give trouble if the conditions are poor, especially if icy. Well groomed pistes are usually fine.
Jonathan Bell
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Cheers @Jonathan Bell thanks for the input,
I'm not sure if we have met before but I see your name has been mentioned on this post already.
You must be in the bone business!
I just imagine what its like at every party you've ever been to and your talking to someone and as soon as they find out what you do for a living you have to trot out all the advice you can give for their bad back.
I nearly have the same problem with people asking me how to get rid of moss when they find out what I do for a living.
You're input is very encouraging. But I'm not going to go on the Pre Season Bash next week now.
Of course I want to get back in the bindings as soon as possible, but I have to be sensible.
I'm going to answer the points you raise as best I can:
Was there and injury or did it just creep up on someone?
This was an instant problem where I saw all my ski life disappearing before me.
How long has it been present.
since 19th Oct.
Which meniscus is it.
I think its the inside one ... medial?
How irritable is it making the knee.
Not too bad at all, It was making me wake up in the night at about 3am and making it difficult to get back to sleep again.
Is it causing secondary patella pain
I'm not sure what that is but I guess not.
Are the joint surfaces healthy?
I dont really know about this, but I have not been playing football all my life. So I dont deserve it.
How old is the patient.
He is 67
What sport are they trying to do and what is their level of skill
He is trying to do skiing and he is very technically proficient with a couple of Instruction Certs behind him, but not as good as a good Snowhead.
What is the pattern of the tear ( horizontal/ displaced etc)
I really dont know yet .. it is just suspected from pressing in a certain spot on the front of the knee in the "leg straight" position, which makes me go ouch!
So whats the prognosis doc?
What I'm really hoping for, is to return to the Fracture Clinic on 30th December an be told that looks OK,
Or we're going to dive in the keyhole and check it out.
If they can do anything , then just get on with it.
So I can go skiing again by end of January 2017
Or am I living in dream world and that is not going to happen.
Your input is well appreciated. Cheers!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Good News!
No more sympathy required, but thank you.
I've seen a surgeon at the fracture clinic, and he says "yes you can go skiing!"
He said .. "Well anything can happen skiing .. so we may see you back again."
Now where to go?
Soll, Zell am Zee .. somewhere I can take my patient and understanding wife to cruise the blues.
Hopefully in a couple of weeks time.
So I can do some more exercises.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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MYAsHbash3!
...and the knee clinic is pretty good in Livigno just in case 
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FAQ
