Is Piste Skiing Now More Dangerous Than Ever? Are Helmets To Blame?

A snowHead

I, too, sense that average piste speeds have risen over the past 15 years. Helmets seem to be unlikely to be a primary cause, though, not least because I see far fewer uncontrolled speeders on North America where helmets have been the norm for many years.

I blame better skis, piste 'improvements' and ski apps, probably in that order. Better skis increase the speed that an early intermediate can attain without feeling unsafe. Piste 'improvements' have seen bottlenecks widened, moguls flattened and ubiquitous snowmaking. It used to be seriously hazardous to hurtle around a blind corner, as you might find a narrow, crowded or icy piste and be unable to stop. These days, the blind corner nearly always opens into another wide, smooth motorway, so speeding idiots take their chances. Finally, ski apps have created a macho minority who want to raise their peak, average or best speed on a section. Their behaviour infects the entire crowd and leads to herd-like uncontrolled mayhem.

Bad behaviour has always been with us. These days, it's a little easier and a little less personally dangerous to ski too fast, so people do it.

Am I alone in having noticed British skiers as being the worst offenders, btw?

A snowHead

Overheard in a gondola in merited. Small group of English kids about 12-14. Too each other 'what speed did you get on that section, I got 44' then a minute later too me 'have you got this app it's really cool, it shows you how far you've gone but also allows you to compare top speeds'

So if the kids have that as their target then it's not surprising that some (or their elders) ski irresponsibly

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

[quote="KennyEverett"]

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Resort design had something to blame as well - it's always struck me as odd when learner / improver and thru pistes get mixed together as often seems to be the case with val thorens (although there is now a new magic carpet serving a more dedicated beginner area under cascades although it's quite narrow and handily has a clump of bushes in the middle of it)

The classic example has to be meribel mottaret, you have the long blue back from the top of platieres which is a great improver piste, but it's also the main route back from Vt, so you have people absolutely tanking it. OK so there isn't many other options around that part of the mountain, but it's wide enough to create zone tranquil sections, or otherwise create some slow down zones

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I have noticed that different ski areas seem also to have different levels of dangerous skiers. Much as I love the Ski Welt, I have to been nearly smashed into many more times by out of control skiers than in the more family focused Ski Juwel nearby (or elsewhere). Something I take into account when choosing where to take my 6 year old. Also Les Arcs at Easter though v busy also seemed to have less dangerous skiers than the Ski Welt - is that because more people are family skiers and thus take a little more care seeing the kiddie school snakes?

Mind you I have to admit the only person to crash into my daughter so far has been me Embarassed

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I think I go faster because I wear a helmet now. When I used to wear a woolly hat it always seemed to blow off if I was going too fast.

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@Valkyrie, haha 😆

I see there has been a tragic accident in Meribel yesterday resulting in the death of a 17 year old British skier. Dreadful news that reminds us, once again of the dangers of our sport.
Thoughts are very much with the family.

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Another helmets thread.

Whilst I don't wear one, as prefer the wind in my thinning hairline, I have no doubt that helmets contribute positively to safety on the slopes.

There is the perception of more accidents on the slopes and I think this perception is likely true. I think the more significant causes are...

- More shaped skis, allowing people to carve across the piste at greater speeds and using more of the piste. When skis were less radically shaped, most skiers used to slip down the hill with their ankles together, alternatively facing left and right, but following a more or less downhill direction, making them easier to avoid. Yes, I know the FIS code, but when I turn sharply across the piste I still look behind me, even though it's my right of way as the downhill skier and I don't turn sharply on crowded pistes.
- More snowboarders, who have a different blind spot from skiers and different behaviour to avoid. By the way, I'm not blaming snowboarders at all. I used to be one. They also have a right to enjoy the mountain. Ironic that snowboard designs have gone the opposite way from ski design (soft boots, soft bindings = less carving, more slipping, generally).
- Snowboards and fat skis allowing those with lower ability and awareness of the risks to venture off-piste more easily.
- Snowboards making more noise, increasing the perception of danger, though not the actual danger.
- More groomed pistes, allowing greater speeds
- Faster uplift, putting greater numbers on the pistes, rather than in queues at the bottom of them.
- A more litigious culture = more claiming of damages for liability and hence, more reporting of accidents.
- There could be an aspect where a helmet reduces field of vision and awareness, but this effect is negligible and more than compensated by their contribution to safety, IMO.

As for Kenny Everett, nobody doubts your right to live life on the edge and "push your limits". Just don't do it near my kids, thanks.

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@snoozeboy, Just to confirm, in 30 years of skiing I've never collided with another skier, ironically the closest I have come is at Xscape last week.

I thought forums were somewhere to share opinions. Obviously only the case provided your opinion matches that of the regulars. Oh well . . . .

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@KennyEverett, I think you've read me wrong.

In 32 years of skiing, I've never hit anyone either. I've been hit once a couple of years ago and it felt like I got hit by a train (was in fact a chubby, 14 year old girl, totally out of control on a hard piste). 2 weekends ago, someone skied across my tips at about 40mph, when I was skiing slowly behind my 5 year old son. We were practically alone on a not-steep piste the width of an 8 lane motorway.

I'm happy for you to ski as fast as you like when you endanger only yourself. I enjoy the same thing myself. However, when there're are others around, people need to be aware of the physics involved and be more considerate.

I don't mind people skiing fast/out of control when no one else is around. There is defo an increasing trend of using moving humans as slalom poles - which is a huge worry.

I don't get where it came from - when on the mountain I like to avoid people, ski the empty piste, move away from people. I don't get the culture of human slalom that seems to have developed recently

You know it makes sense.

After 30 years of skiing, is'nt possible you've slowed down a little, I know I have!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

The answer lies in changing the piste conditions (IMO), now if they were to not piste bash certain section of a piste run (or make them more challenging) , this would make many people slow down, as there super carving skis, need to be reigned back for the change in condition, almost like creating slow zones. Also means people have to become aware of there technique on changing environments.

We have all seen that end of day carnage of a chopped up piste and people all other the place. So to stop this you have a magic carpet to by pass it for beginners.

I think it would promote more Ski tuition.

Just a thought.

A snowHead

I agree that there are more irresponsible boarders and skiers on the slopes than there used to be. There is also much more selfish and rude behaviour. I have to say I think this is a reflection of the noms on our society - more rudeness, aggression and selfishness pretty much across the board in my view.

Chairlifts all over the mountain don't help - a tough surface lift is a very effective way of filtering slope users based on ability. Modern skis and the growth of snowboarding have also contributed to the increase in speeds and decrease in technique and control.

What amazes me, though, is the lack of enforcement of the very simple rules that should improve safety (i.e. the FIS code). European resorts do precious little to enforce the rules (in fact lots of places do nothing at all). It used to be that in Scottish resorts at least it was self-policing - we would all intervene and deal with rude or dangerous behaviour - but this seems to be in decline also. Those that ski or board in a dangerous manner and the resorts that do nothing to enforce the rules are at very high risk of a very big bill, in an ever more litigous society they will find themselves paying out large damages.

Please also bear in mind that if someone does crash into you as a result of reckless behaviour it is very likely that a criminal offence has occurred. The police in most European countries take this pretty seriously, especially the Italians. It does no harm at all to remind people of this.

A snowHead

I think you've got to keep it a bit real. We all strap planks to our feet and head off down snowy mountains surrounded by other people. There's risk invovled. If you want risk free then get into crown green bowls or something - and yes I know that sport has a high moratailty rate but that's down to the age demographic of the participants rather than inherent danger.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I learned to ski at Hillend near Edinburgh 35 years ago. The school also ran trips to Glenshee and Cairngorm. The teachers included one who was on the ski patrol at Glenshee - and although we had a great laugh, safety was important.

We were all taught basic rules which I still use today -

1. If stopping, do so at the edge of the piste, and not just out of sight over a roller
2. If you are above and behind someone, it is entirely your responsibility to pass them safely.

For me, you cant do number 2 unless you are skiing in control and within the range of your ability for the piste and weather conditions.

I feel ski helmets deaden your senses and I prefer to be aware of whats going on (in case I need to take evasive action). I dont wear a helmet (either on my daily bike commute, or on skis) but I have no problem with people who do.

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I have also noticed a number of people using slower skiers like slalom poles, almost as if they are deliberately trying to get as close as possible, I learned a lesson early in my ski history when a skier that I was overtaking at highish speed made an unexpected turn into my path, I hit him with a glancing blow that knocked him over on the spot and sent me end over end. Fortunately no-one hurt but 100% my fault and I have skied expecting the unexpected ever since.

As far as speed is concerned, my 2m GS skis were more stable in a straight line than my carvers and I certainly don't hit the seriously high speeds that I used to, as the carvers always need to be on an edge to be stable. I agree that the style of broad sweeping turn when a skier is really carving has it's safety issues but I rarely see anyone actually carving their turns.

Well groomed pistes are a catch 22, most, less capable skiers want the whole mountain pisted but I would agree that this encourages higher speeds.

Perhaps skiers / boarders should only be issued with a lift ticket when they can produce proof (online test???) that they have read and understood the FIS rules and no matter what stupid, unexpected manouver the downhill skier does, it is your responsibility to avoid them.

One of the guys skiing with us last year commented that he found it difficult to avoid building up excess speed, I suggested that the fact that he was about 30kg lighter than me and on skis that were about twice the footprint (wider and longer) may have something to do with this. In my ski gear, I'm 15 stone and skiing on 170 skis that are about 67mm underfoot, I have tried a small number of wider offpiste skis and they were ok for long carving turns on piste but were hopeless for quick, short radius turns on piste and bumps. So, I think the use of fat skis on piste plays a part in poorly controlled skiing.

Helmets?, whilst I think it would be hard to prove that helmets cause accidents, there are more theoretical scenarios kicking about that suggests they do than they don't, bottom line is that if you hit your head, wearing a helmet will reduce or prevent injury to your head, they have no other safety benefit, I've tried skiing with a helmet and absolutely hated it.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Fifty years of skiing, on and off. As far as I can remember I'd never been hit before 2 seasons ago, since when I've been hit from above 3 times. Maybe I should stop wearing that jacket with a big target logo on the back. Well, it's starting to feel that way.

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I think the apps are the worse culprits, on these very boards a mother was boasting how her kids had hit 85kmph on the Grande Motte. That's just not safe.

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Helmets is the same as Volvo Drivers.

Blinkered & Blind Useless

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I think it's a lack of lessons and very little to do with helmets. Although if there is a camera attached to the helmet or a selfie stick in hand that has an affect as well.

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Never had lessons with ESF but does it stand for Everyone Sour Faced?

I don't think it's got much worse to be honest. There have always been idiots. And as others have said, when I was a teenage beginner I simply didn't realise how out of control I was. As I got better I realised what being in control really means. These days I am quite intolerant when I see people which much less skill than me taking chances (i.e., margins of distance and speed) with the risk of collision with other skiers that I wouldn't take. But I'm not sure it's got worse - just that I'm more aware and I now have kids with me a lot. It's hard not to get annoyed when you see people taking risks with your children's safety for cheap thrills.

I do think there is a bit of an issue with carving. I carve the vast majority of my turns on piste - this involves "skiing the slow line fast". Most skiers don't do this, at least not on steeper sections. This can put you in conflict even when you technically have the right of way (e.g., skiing fast across the piste when there is an uphill skier who is doing pivoted turns closer to the fall line). If they are looking in a channel in front of them, you can suddenly appear from wide left or right. So despite your right of way you need to be careful with safety margins, shoulder checking, etc. The risk is a 90 degree impact with a big closing speed.

Unlike all those of you who are very confident that they don't risk compensate, on the rare occasions I'm not wearing a helmet I do tone my speed down a shade and probably don't commit quite so much to very high edge angles, particularly if the pistes are hard. It doesn't make a difference to how close I ski to other skiers though.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

At Stubai in November, I was skiing a crowded run at less than half the speed I would have skied it had it been empty.

Whhoooff! A hurtling teenage girl came out of nowhere and - at Olympic downhill speed - clipped the front of my skis as she cut me up. Fortunately I didn't crash.

As she stopped shortly after, I approached and politely told her that she had come from behind, hit me and was skiing too fast on a busy run. Her response was: "If you are so afraid of being injured you should wear a helmet...." At which point I asked "Would a helmet have stopped you breaking my legs?"

IMO, the problem of reckless-couldn't-give-a-f***-skiers is definitely getting worse Confused

. New Year week will be just fantastic with conditions the way they are at present....

Ski patrollers ripping up lift tickets would be my answer.

A snowHead

A snowHead

Several people have suggested faster/higher-capacity lifts as a cause of more people on the snow but they are mainly an affect, resorts increase lift capacity in response to increased numbers and prevent the resulting queues at old lifts putting them off and going to a different resort.

I've not seen anyone mentions the cost of flights though, and that IS a cause as airlines start new routes in the hope of attracting passengers, rather than because there's a queue of them at the airport asking for flights to a destination that isn't served. Back in the 70s/80s it was an expensive ferry/long drive through a country where you couldn't drink the tap water* and didn't know what a toilet was or the equivalent of £200 per-person to fly. Plan ahead these days and you can get flights for next to nothing, making it a viable holiday option for a lot more people.

* Does anyone know if you actually COULDN'T drink the tab water in France in 1980s, or did my parents just have the ingrained belief of the time that civilisation ended at the white cliffs and it was a mix of 20,000 Years BC/Mad Max everywhere beyone?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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I'm also surprised nobody has mentioned university snow sports, when my folks were at university the ski club went to caringorm. I've spent four years repping university ski tirps and the number of people has grown massively year on year. You have thousands of people week on week, a lot of them pissed / beginners, very basic lessons. You only have to look at the scale of accommodation building in the student resorts to see how many more folk its brining over.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

The 'wearing a helmet gives you a false sense of security' argument only works if someone started out not wearing one and then later started. If someone always skis with a helmet (right from their first lesson) then they will perceive the risk in the same way. It's not like you put on a helmet and think "right, now I'm safe". One of my other hobbies is motorsport, does the fact that I wear helmet for that mean that I take risks and crash? No of course it bloody doesn't. Does the fact that I wear fireproof overalls mean that I splash fuel around and have dodgy wiring? Wearing a helmet is about risk assessment. Is there a risk of me falling over or being hit when skiing? Yes. Can I reduce the risk? Yes, by learning to ski properly and being careful. Can I reduce the effect of the risk too? Yes, by wearing a helmet. Seems like a no brainer to me.

I also find it funny that people argue against helmets by stating how many times they get hit by others. Surely that's when you want a bit of protection? If I get caught up in someone else's accident and there's a risk of me hitting my head, then I want it to hurt less. Like others have said, advances in ski technology is probably a far greater contributor to people skiing faster than their limit.

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. . ."Ski patrollers ripping up lift tickets would be my answer" . . .

100% agree . . .is there any data from resorts on this ie. how many get confiscated / banned in a season . . ? Doubt anyone on here will 'fess up! Embarassed

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Ok here's my two penny's worth. I'm 52, skied a few times upto 18 year's old, back in the 70's!! the equipment was nothing like the carvers of today, it took most people two weeks of group lessons to become reasonably safe and competent. I then had a 30 year lay off, marriage, children yadder yadder!! got back on the skis at 48 thinking it will take me another two weeks to get back to where I was previously. Wrong!! the difference in the equipment is massive, the things turn as if by telepathy! it took me 1 hour to get back to where i was 30 years previous. i never wore a helmet, but the following year i did, mainly because everyone else seemed to and i reckoned if some numpty skis into me and is wearing a helmet they're likely to damage me pretty badly. I've also seen quite a few crashes, one of which involved an old Austrian guy stood on the side of the piste having a breather, hit hard by a young guy with a helmet skiing a straight line (ish). the poor guy didn't stand a chance and took quite a while to come round! The pistes are definitely more crowded and the cheap flights etc. play a large part of that, but i think it's good that skiing is no longer the exclusive plaything of the rich and that the rest of us "all so rans" can enjoy what has to be the finest way to spend a week or two on this god forsaken planet!! i think the pistes should be patrolled to weed out and or educate those that ski out of control and risk injury or worse to themselves and others. See you on the white side

Toofy Grin

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I don't think it has that much to do with helmets or carving skis; the biggest problem is the sadly-prevalent attitude of 'I'm a good skier, I don't need lessons'.

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Is Piste Skiing Now More Dangerous Than Ever? Are Helmets To Blame?

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