 Poster: A snowHead
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| Peter S wrote: |
Hard carving whether on skis or boards cut up pistes more quickly than short light swings down the fall line.
On the other hand snowboarders are usually quicker to ride the off piste and the chop...thereby spreading the load. Therefore perhaps swings and roundabouts ? |
I guess this would depend on your definition of "Damage" to the piste, all through this thread I had assumed it to be scraping the top layer of loose snow off to leave a hard, icy surface. Also, if you are carving correctly, you will not be scraping any snow anywhere, there will be a single sharp line in the snow from a boarder or two parallel, continuous sharp lines from a skier. It is the scraped turns that cause the bumps and icy patches. When did you ever see more than 1 in 20 actually carving their turns?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| spcsnow wrote: |
| How are moguls created? |
In heaven!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Young skiers would do less damage to the piste if they weren't all determined to stop in a huge spray of snow every time.  |
I'm middle aged, and if this was taken away from me I would stop skiing. There is no better feeling than spraying your mate after they have fallen. Full. Stop.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I don't think I've seen so many testosterone charged replies on a forum since I left the Large pint Support Group.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
| I don't think I've seen so many testosterone charged replies on a forum since I left the Large pint Support Group. |
Isn't it fab!, helmets have been done to death and the forum has been seriously lacking in something to fire up the soul
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A skidded turn on a board does appear to scrape more soft snow/slush off the surface but I'm not sure it's an actuality and the level of 'damage' is probably similar for both skis and boards.
What I find more interesting is that boards and wider skies have helped to increase the number of people off piste. I remember skiing "spring snow" off piste where the surface was firm with a sprinkle of sugary snow on top. It remained this way when people stopped using those slopes once the surface started to soften (lunchtime ish) and it didn't become chopped up. These days the use of wider skis and boards makes skiing the soft snow so much easier and consequently it is much harder to find these spring snow conditions, as the snow is covered with deep hard grooves in the morning and soft but more skiable in the afternoon. Anyone agree or am I just a boring old fart 
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| tangowaggon wrote: |
And if you can't avoid the downhill skier/boarder when they make a sudden change of direction, you are too close or too fast!!!!
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Agreed, but I'd add that if you can't avoid being 'forced' into a snow fence when the skier in front doesn't do what you hope then you were too close or going too fast.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Stop the Brutal Grooming.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yes
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've just been informed that snowboarders breathe out more Carbon Dioxide too and are affected global warming affecting our sport. Your cat is also more likely to be killed by a snowboarder than a kitten and their trousers are bigger, raping the Earth of vital resources.
They also damge the English language and our heritage by innapropriately using terms such as stoked.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| What is daft is the way what might have been an interesting technical discussion about the 'damage' caused by snowboards vs Skis has been turned into this sort of squabble. |
Agree..
| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| It seems to be the boarders who instantly took umbrage and decided to divert the discussion. |
Can't really agree. I think the post below kicked it all off. It has everything to do with boarders' behaviour as perceived by one individual, and nothing to do whatsoever with the OP..
| zikomo wrote: |
| This debate is always fun. My experience is boarders in general often either don't know or don't give much credence to the FIS code. Just a quick glance at youtube and the comments left by boarders backs this up, with constant complaints that crashes were caused by skiers "not looking uphill before turning", "cutting me up", "not leaving enough space for me to pass" - in short not understanding that anyone coming from behind has the responsibility to avoid those in front. I think lots of them simply cannot stop/change direction quickly enough to avoid collisions when someone does something unexpected. Frankly that is why Deer Valley ban them - their clients feel safer with no boarders around and frankly so do i (especially when skiing with kids). Sorry boarders! |
I'm 42, been skiing since the age of 5, boarding since I'm 33. Love both. I can see a boarder pushing a lot of snowdown when they straight slide their way down on steeps. On the other hand, where beginner skiers do their chasse neige from top to bottom, they are also pushing and scraping a lot of snow down where a lot of beginner boarders will do a falling leaf across the width of the piste all one edge and no doing any damage worth talking about. Intermediate skiers also do long sweeping sliding turns and it can hardly be called carving...so it'll damage the piste just like an intermediate boarder will when they use a similar king of turn.
All in all, who knows who creates more damage. Maybe the boarders do, but they are vastly outnumbered by skiers so in absolute terms are probably still way behind skiers.. Do we really care?
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You know it makes sense.
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Who cares about who does what to the snow.....there's enough for everyone (apart from big-foots and blades) and so long as people ski/ board safe I'm happy. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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To the OP's point - one situation where boarders absolutely do cause more damage is Glenshee in marginal conditions. There are often thin ribbons of snow on steeper sections on the lower part of runs, skiers tend to ski straight down them and control speed afterwards, boarders tend to side slip due to the steepness/lack of skill and you can actually see the thin cover being worn away. I have seen some pretty heated "discussions" in these circumstances! To my mind it comes back to the point that boarders seem to progress to steeper/more challenging terrain more quickly than skiers, and are often clearly on a slope they cannot board with much grace or control (but can get down). You see skiers in this position also, but again I would say the proportion is lower.
On the point I made about the FIS code - interesting that many skiers have commented on the importance of being able to (and responsible for) allowing for ANY unexpected action by the downhill skier. I have not seen any boarders commenting on this important aspect of slope safety.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| tangowaggon wrote: |
| essex wrote: |
| The rules don't need changing. Uphill rider needs to be prepared for whatever the downhill person does. |
+++++1!
And if you can't avoid the downhill skier/boarder when they make a sudden change of direction, you are too close or too fast!!!!
I would add though, everyone should be taught to avoid going right to the very edge of the piste either for a turn or to stop and leave a "gateway" for an overtaking skier to pass, ie if skier A is overtaking skier B and B suddenly moves to the left, forcing A to go left too then B continues to go left and it's too late for A to go right, if B goes all the way to the edge of the piste, A has nowhere to go. ( ruined a perfectly good Aldi ski jacket by being "forced" into the snow fence at the side of the piste) |
Especially ESF instructors with their riduculous traverses.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Minion1980 wrote: |
| "oh they make a scraping sound when they come up behind me". I mean seriously this bothers you? Maybe you should take up a different hobby. Where is the joy, the fun and the love? |
Yes it intimidates me. If you'd been crashed into from behind as many have, in some cases causing serious injury, maybe it would intimidate you too. I don't recall saying that snowboarders should therefore be banned from the piste. Thanks so much for your suggestion I should take up a different hobby, that's full of joy, fun and love.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
I would add though, everyone should be taught to avoid going right to the very edge of the piste either for a turn or to stop
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Stopping at the edge of the piste is one of the rules. If you leave a little passageway you encourage some idiot to pass you fast on the inside.
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if you can't avoid being 'forced' into a snow fence when the skier in front doesn't do what you hope then you were too close or going too fast
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+ 1
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@zikomo, fine - if it'll make you happy - As a snowboarder who has never once worn skis, I am aware of the FIS code and abide by it.
In addition to the code I was taught that if you're going to be pulling an unexpected maneuver as the downhill rider, like pulling over to one side or slowing unexpectedly, you should make some form of signal to those behind you, like clearly pointing in your direction of travel.
If you're wondering why the FIS code sometimes rubs snowboarders up the wrong way - there are two reasons, firstly, FIS have a history of being anti-snowboarding so anything with the word FIS on it always chafes. Two, there was a move afoot a while ago to have an extended set of rules which would have put extra emphasis on snowboarders to take responsibility as the downhill party to check that their heelside was clear PRIOR to initiating a turn. There was also stuff around leashes and being in control but thats just guff.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| tangowaggon wrote: |
| essex wrote: |
| The rules don't need changing. Uphill rider needs to be prepared for whatever the downhill person does. |
+++++1!
And if you can't avoid the downhill skier/boarder when they make a sudden change of direction, you are too close or too fast!!!!
I would add though, everyone should be taught to avoid going right to the very edge of the piste either for a turn or to stop and leave a "gateway" for an overtaking skier to pass, ie if skier A is overtaking skier B and B suddenly moves to the left, forcing A to go left too then B continues to go left and it's too late for A to go right, if B goes all the way to the edge of the piste, A has nowhere to go. ( ruined a perfectly good Aldi ski jacket by being "forced" into the snow fence at the side of the piste) |
Interesting question. Clearly it is correct for someone to stop on the edge of the piste and therefore it seems to make little sense to designate this some sort of overtaking area. How does a stopping skier move to the edge of the piste without passing through this lane? The answer is obviously for everyone to ski sensibly, responsibly and keep a good look out above and below. However, if we are defining 'rules of the road' I'm not sure this should be one of them. I'd argue that a better rule might be for the overtaking skier to aim to pass behind the downhill skier.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@foxtrotzulu, I tend to look back up the hill before moving to stop at the side of the piste and also signal if it's busy. That's self-preservation; it remains the responsibility of the uphill skier to avoid me.
In many, many, months on the slopes in the last 12 years I've seen little reckless skiing (because I am mostly in a non-testosterone area) and scarcely any collisions. I did have one (both of us on skis) which fractured my pelvis but it was near a lift, in an area where the rules were not really applicable and I wouldn't like to claim it was the other bloke's fault (he was French, a lot bigger than me, and very concerned and apologetic). I think we both contributed, actually.
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can somebody please explain what damage to the piste actually means?
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
@zikomo, fine - if it'll make you happy - As a snowboarder who has never once worn skis, I am aware of the FIS code and abide by it.
In addition to the code I was taught that if you're going to be pulling an unexpected maneuver as the downhill rider, like pulling over to one side or slowing unexpectedly, you should make some form of signal to those behind you, like clearly pointing in your direction of travel.
If you're wondering why the FIS code sometimes rubs snowboarders up the wrong way - there are two reasons, firstly, FIS have a history of being anti-snowboarding so anything with the word FIS on it always chafes. Two, there was a move afoot a while ago to have an extended set of rules which would have put extra emphasis on snowboarders to take responsibility as the downhill party to check that their heelside was clear PRIOR to initiating a turn. There was also stuff around leashes and being in control but thats just guff. |
A very sensible approach to, where possible, look uphill and adjust if you are intending to do something unexpected (and I guess as boarder that is sometimes harder to do so signalling intent is useful). The problem being of course that "unexpected" quite often involves "unintentional"!
For what is is worth I agree there needs to be one set of rules for all, and it is up to skiers to adjust for the different turn shape taken by boarders below us (even if that is a little inconvenient at times!). The fact that FIS chafes is simply irrelevant - those are the rules and need to be understood and abided by. Serious injury or even death can result in not doing so - and we should all be conscious that we live in an increasingly litigious environment so the cost of ignorance can be quite high!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Why - How a snowboard grips the snow , how a snowboarder balances on snow and the level of ability at which a snowboarder stops skidding and starts carving.
I'll start with how a snowboarder balances. This is where a snowboard is most different to a skier. A stationary skier is just standing there, with 2 planks and doesn't fall over just because they are stationary. But consider a snowboard, if you are on a slope and not blessed with very good balance you can't be stationary as you have only one edge in contact. A snowboard requires motion for balance as does a bicycle. But unlike the bicycle it doesn't have the benefit of a gyroscope to keep it up so you have to keep adjusting your position or push against something to stay up.
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No, most competent riders can stand on the bolard while stationary without much difficulty. The edge digging into the snow provides enough platform to maintain balance.
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But why does all this pushing and balancing have any effect on the piste. Well a skier at many pints in the a turn and when running straight or just relaxing isn't trying to exert any force on the snow just to stay upright, they don't need to they won't just fall over. If the snowboarder isn't pushing against something they have to tightrope balance to stay up - unless it's completely flat a straight, but then you'd be scared of catching an edge. (Not the greatest description I know but snowboarding is dynamically challanged).
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Again, just no. Any competent snowboarder can cut a straight traverse, run on a flat base etc. in exactly the same manner as a skier, completely relaxed with no slip. Equally, the amount of grip/slip can be varied smoothly through the turn in the same way as a skier. Really not sure what you're trying to say here.
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How a snowboard grips the snow? like a ski right? Er no, the left and right turn are two very different things, one you stand on your heals the other on your toes, and you are riding in boots so soft it would be like skiing in 1950's leather ski boots, maybe even less support than that! The snowboard itself has a very different flex pattern to a pair of skis, not just because your standing sideways instead of inline but where the flex changes in relation to length and relation to sidecut, yes a pure race carving board is somewhat similar to a ski but then that's not relevant here. A snowboard is so wide compared to a ski (not talking huge powder skis here) that it had a dynamic skis don't. Flex across it's width. But more than any of the above a snowboard was intended to ride IN snow not ON snow, hence the dynamics are all about pushing against the flat of the whole base not riding on an edge.
On a snowboard you are really up against it when trying to grip precicely on a piste , hence more skidding and piste damage.
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A snowboard grips the snow exactly like a ski. It is a metal edge cutting into snow, there is no difference. The biomechanics required to achieve grip are, of course, somewhat different. The lateral flex of the board is not relevant as your weight should be balanced over the edge you're riding on. What is relevant is the torsional flex of the board. A competent rider can vary the grip between the tip and tail of the board by dynamically twisting the board using fore/aft weight distribution and conscious twisting of the board via foot-pedalling.
Again, the biomechanics of heelside and toeside turns are slightly different, but the output in terms of grip and turn-shape should be the same for a competent rider. The difference in flex between ski and snowboard boots is irrelevant and the binding + highback combination provides additional stiffness for heelside turns (although it's perfectly possible to make grippy heelside turns / carves even using soft boots and bindings with the highbacks removed!).
I would broadly agree that the level of skill/experience required to make grippy turns is higher on a snowboard than on skis and, unfortunately, the vast majority of riders either never achieve this level, don't feel the need to achieve this level because they're already having loads of fun or don't even realise that this level of performance exists (e.g. loads of riders will say it's "impossible" to get grip on a steep/icy piste). It's unfortunate that skiers tend to take more lessons due to the different learning curve and due to many people learning to ski as kids and hence doing many years of ski school. Unfortunately, the snowboard equivalent of a snow-plough turn is enough to let you ride the whole mountain, which is not the case for skiers, so many people never bother to learn higher-performance technique. Fundamentally though, the difference is more down to demographics / experience / training than to physics.
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When I used to teach both skiing and I used to think that you could teach a fit determined person to snowboard at a level they could navigate the mountain on their second day, but regardless of how careful you were it was gonna hurt. But it might take a week to do the same with a skier but it wasn't going to turn them black and blue in the process. It takes longer to grasp the basics of skiing than snowboarding, but you can learn to ski without having to crash a lot. On a mellow piste an intermidiate skier can (on modern skis) start to carve, even if they are not they are not scraping their edge hard against the piste. A snowboarder of the same experience level will be dragging either on edge or the other against the piste to balance and would probably not think about trying to carve, it's not their thing.
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Broadly agree. It's possible to teach someone to snowboard without loads of crashing, but does tend to require one-to-one teaching. Self-teaching or group lessons are likely to mean a few crashes. Intermediate snowboarders can easily start to learn to carve, but, as you say, it doesn't occur to many. This is a real shame as a lot of the things which snowboarders are naturally keen to do (riding park kickers, halfpipe) actually require good carving skills. It's almost impossible to ride pipe if you can't carve and the setup required to spin a 360 (or beyond) off a big kicker means carving on the approach and up the transition. The mechanics of a carved turn also translate better to powder than the typical tail-sliding skiddy turns that many intermediates use.
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So yes, snowboarders do damage piste more than skier, most of it is equipment physics not the individual. If you want proof, find a busy piste that's steep enough that you need to turn to avoid hurtling down the hill and sit and watch how skiers and snowboarders apply pressure eto the snow.
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As above, I'd say exactly the opposite - it's down to individuals, not equipment (or is it that the equipment shapes the individual? Chicken and egg situation...). Your "proof" is superficially true, but mostly because the technique of most snowboarders is not worth watching!
Not slating my fellow riders here..... as always, the best rider is the one having the most fun....
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@zikomo, I'm not sure why you're so determined to troll this thread. If you truly are or were a patroller your attitude to boarders as if they were some homogeneous group to which you have assigned your own fantasy attributes is pretty disturbing.
None of this is a question which can be answered definitively without a controlled test over a significant population because people differ more in their ability level and attitude than they do in what's on their feet. A douchebag is a douchebag, an overconfident teenager is an overconfident teenager, a grumpy old codger is a grumpy old codger. So you get upset if a boarder sideslips on your critical patch of snow - man up and find another if you don't like it. Part of it is just mechanics, harder for a low intermediate to get into the fall line in a tricky position to point it on a board as they don't have the snowplough/stem. Equally they are highly unlike to be blocking your path because they are gathering skis and poles or digging in a crater for their lost ski.
Re the FIS stuff - what is most disturbing I find about people who are absolutist re the FIS rules is that this frequently means they only recognise "downhill skier has right of way" and think the others are in some way less important as this always has priority. It doesn't and it's downright dangerous when people ignore the others because they do set off into peoples' paths, stop in crazy or obstructive places, increase danger to kids by ineffectively screening them etc etc. If you are a remotely advanced skier this should be more of a concern to you than having all boarders explicitly swearing loyalty to the code.
+ when it comes to hazards the number of skier that don't appreciate boarders have a blindspot on their heelside turns is extraordinary. If you are in a position that causes a boarder tp have to alter path coming out of a turn you have got too close.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Tue 8-12-15 12:28; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yes, and people! Should only be allowed off piste in there rightful environment (sorry should have written IMO)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| tangowaggon wrote: |
| ruined a perfectly good Aldi ski jacket by being "forced" into the snow fence at the side of the piste) |
Said no good self respecting snowboarder ever 
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
@zikomo, I'm not sure why you're so determined to troll this thread. If you truly are or were a patroller your attitude to boarders as if they were some homogeneous group to which you have assigned your own fantasy attributes is pretty disturbing.
None of this is a question which can be answered definitively without a controlled test over a significant population because people differ more in their ability level and attitude than they do in what's on their feet. A douchebag is a douchebag, an overconfident teenager is an overconfident teenager, a grumpy old codger is a grumpy old codger. So you get upset if a boarder sideslips on your critical patch of snow - man up and find another if you don't like it. Part of it is just mechanics, harder for a low intermediate to get into the fall line in a tricky position to point it on a board as they don't have the snowplough/stem. Equally they are highly unlike to be blocking your path because they are gathering skis and poles or digging in a crater for their lost ski.
Re the FIS stuff - what is most disturbing I find about people who are absolutist re the FIS rules is that this frequently means they only recognise "downhill skier has right of way" and think the others are in some way less important as this always has priority. It doesn't and it's downright dangerous when people ignore the others because they do set off into peoples' paths, stop in crazy or obstructive places, increase danger to kids by ineffectively screening them etc etc. If you are a remotely advanced skier this should be more of a concern to you than having all boarders explicitly swearing loyalty to the code. |
I am not trolling anything. I am reasonable and balanced in everything I say, might be a good idea for you to read the actual words I use and not attribute me with negativity that is simply not there.
I do not say anywhere that boarders are a homogenous group - in fact I specifically talked about proportions being different amongst skiers and boarders, there are good and bad in both groups.
I do not assign fantasy attributes merely share my observations, which seem to match those of quite a few others.
I did not say I get upset if a boarder "sideslips on your critical patch of snow". What I said was I had seen some heated "discussion" in such circumstances, i.e. others arguing about it. I would never do so as it is not my patch of snow, it is for everyone on the hill to use as they see fit.
All of the rules are important and should be followed. That being said, the downhill skier does always and in all circumstances have the right of way. The rule is not made conditional for a reason, which is self-evident. Ignore this fact at your peril (and the peril of others). Or is your assertion that the rules are deliberately obtuse and the authors simply forgot to add "except where you are skiing fast and someone does something you think they should not do in which case the uphill skier actually has priority"?
Screening kids does not in my experience increase the danger to them. I would be interested to know why you think that is so. Also why you think parents should not do what the can to protect their children from potential dangerous skiing or boarding?
I believe I have remained balanced, respectful of theres and polite throughout. Lets all try and keep doing the same.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, For the record, what I actually said:
I would say - the only time I have been crashed into (breaking 3 ribs) it was an out of control skier who had no right to be on the slope he found himself on. And believe me I see plenty of poor behaviour from skiers (and I regularly confront them). So no, I am not biased and am happy to admit some skiers are irresponsible.
"My point is, that as a group, boarders do not seem to either understand or believe they need to follow the FIS code. I have tried multiple times to explain to boarders causing issues, to no avail. And I have observed others also struggling to get across that if you crash into someone from behind it is your fault. I think it comes from the fact that boarders DO generally glance uphill before turning because they know other boarders might struggle to avoid them if they are locked into a turn, so they believe this is what is necessary to avoid crashes. The problem with that approach is it ignores the fact that beginners/kids/numpites will always behave in unpredictable ways and is the uphill slope user who is responsible to avoid a collision.
Looking at pretty much any forum/blog or at comments on youtube videos involving slope collisions - there is consistent ignorance or denial of the FIS riles by snowboarders. I am sorry - but the evidence is there for all to see.
I personally have no problem with snowboarding, but something in the culture needs to change. Friends of mine who board tend to have come from a skiing background (and are very good!) and do not have this attitude!"
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| zikomo wrote: |
Looking at pretty much any forum/blog or at comments on youtube videos involving slope collisions - there is consistent ignorance or denial of the FIS riles by snowboarders. I am sorry - but the evidence is there for all to see.
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eg?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| zikomo wrote: |
@Dave of the Marmottes, For the record, what I actually said:
"My point is, that as a group, boarders do not seem to either understand or believe they need to follow the FIS code." |
QED
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As a boarder, if I make large radius turns I'm "downhill" from anyone above me, but not necessarily progressing down the fall line at a faster rate. If I was to fail to look for them before I turn, I could easily collide with them.
You are suggesting that it's my right to cause that collision, which is manifest nonsense.
Therefore you are a troll and I claim the prize. I doubt you'll ever change.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| tangowaggon wrote: |
| ........ruined a perfectly good Aldi ski jacket by being "forced" into the snow fence...... |
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| There was also stuff around leashes .. |
You mean as in, "No snowboarders, except on a leash..."?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| philwig wrote: |
As a boarder, if I make large radius turns I'm "downhill" from anyone above me, but not necessarily progressing down the fall line at a faster rate. If I was to fail to look for them before I turn, I could easily collide with them.
You are suggesting that it's my right to cause that collision, which is manifest nonsense.
Therefore you are a troll and I claim the prize. I doubt you'll ever change. |
As a skier uphill of you I am well aware of the turn characteristics because i will have observed your speed and style before approaching, i also will be aware of what you might do worst case scenario. Having said that i appreciate you adding a little consideration for me via an uphill glace or whatever, but it's my lookout if you don't.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I may have a solution to bring us all together...what about if boarders put rear view mirrors on the end of their selfie sticks ? 
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| zikomo wrote: |
@Dave of the Marmottes, For the record, what I actually said:
I would say - the only time I have been crashed into (breaking 3 ribs) it was an out of control skier who had no right to be on the slope he found himself on. |
Your private resort, perhaps? 
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| philwig wrote: |
As a boarder, if I make large radius turns I'm "downhill" from anyone above me, but not necessarily progressing down the fall line at a faster rate. If I was to fail to look for them before I turn, I could easily collide with them.
You are suggesting that it's my right to cause that collision, which is manifest nonsense.
Therefore you are a troll and I claim the prize. I doubt you'll ever change. |
Nope, I never said that. Nice try but I refer you again to what I actually said. I actually dislike this need to make it personal and also to not accept anyone who presents an opposing view. Stop accusing me of saying things I dod not say, I would never suggest that anyone has a "right" to cause a collision.
Everyone should do what they can to avoid collisions, and that is what I have repeatedly said. It also remains true that downhill slope user has right of way, and the uphill skier is liable in the case of a crash. The two are not mutually exclusive.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Red Leon wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
@Dave of the Marmottes, For the record, what I actually said:
I would say - the only time I have been crashed into (breaking 3 ribs) it was an out of control skier who had no right to be on the slope he found himself on. |
Your private resort, perhaps? |
Well caught! I of course meant the skier did not have anywhere near the level of skill required to ski the slope safely, hence he lost control and crashed into me. I had seen his earlier and he was an accident waiting to happen!
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| zikomo wrote: |
| philwig wrote: |
As a boarder, if I make large radius turns I'm "downhill" from anyone above me, but not necessarily progressing down the fall line at a faster rate. If I was to fail to look for them before I turn, I could easily collide with them.
You are suggesting that it's my right to cause that collision, which is manifest nonsense.
Therefore you are a troll and I claim the prize. I doubt you'll ever change. |
Nope, I never said that. Nice try but I refer you again to what I actually said. I actually dislike this need to make it personal and also to not accept anyone who presents an opposing view. Stop accusing me of saying things I dod not say, I would never suggest that anyone has a "right" to cause a collision.
Everyone should do what they can to avoid collisions, and that is what I have repeatedly said. It also remains true that downhill slope user has right of way, and the uphill skier is liable in the case of a crash. The two are not mutually exclusive. |
However a downhill stationary slope user has to look uphill before setting off. I had a near miss once when a skier stationary on one side of the piste suddenly decided to traverse to the opposite side, without looking before setting off. I had spotted them stationary from higher up, so purposely chose my line to be at the opposite side of the piste. They set off as I was just above them and making a heel side turn, therefore in my blind spot, and despite checking, as I was coming out of the turn they were about a metre to the side of me, but I was able to then get in to my toe edge and away from them.
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FAQ
