jimmer, They are not pure carved though as he is skidding the tails of the skis quite a bit as far as I can see as he changes edges. His trail is a bit Z shaped as a result rather than pure carved S's.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
jimmer wrote:
The 'expert parallel' and the first guy doing the 'corridor' drill are very carved, would they fail?
If the examiner thought so then yes. Well you would drop marks, I am not sure which disciplines are a must pass for L4.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
jimmer, yep, looked as though the skis were doing what they were designed to do (carving) to me too...
Kenny, surely for L4 all disciplines must be a full pass?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I have never heard of this no carving in CSIA business before, all the L4s I've skied with carve well. Some of those turns are definitely carved as far as what I understand carving to mean.
I don't know why the stivot came up, it's harder than carving and has a very specific application.
Merry Christmas everyone, I've already instructed for 32 hours this week, need a break!
rob@rar, they all have it wrong above don't they - you know what I'm on about don't you? Not the turns in that racing video, or the stivot turns or the pivot turns. I'm on about those steered turns when you engage the inside edge of the outside ski and twist the foot to inscribe a curve of the size you want into the snow and steer the ski around the turn as opposed to the pure carved turn which, to do perfectly, results in a curve determined by the turn radius of the ski. Personally I think the steered turn is almost as hard to do as a carved turn, but I think it is more generally useful - the purpose of the thread was to see if folks agreed, but if they don't understand the steered turn and what I'm on about they can't do so. I think it's the difference between actively piloting a front wheel drive car and letting it pull itself around a cambered track at an optimum speed. Rob do you know of a slow mo steered turn video that will demonstrate the turn I'm interested in please?
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 25-12-13 19:05; edited 1 time in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Megamum wrote:
... engage the outside edge of the outside ski ...
Inside edge (underneath your big toe) of the outside ski. Outside edge of the outside ski is quite a challenge.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Am I wrong in thinking that when all is said and done, pure carved turns are only useful in a very limited set of situations? So limited in fact that in practical terms, they are almost useless? Steered turns are what you need under almost all circumstances?
Not that I care, you understand...
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Steilhang, carved turns are more difficult on steeper terrain because of the speed and the forces involved, but I wouldn't call them useless. The more skilful you are the wider the range of terrain you can use that kind of turn on.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Steilhang, Get an empty wide piste ahead of you and they are wonderful (on the odd time you manage to get it right) I'd just say being able to mix and match and apply it to the terrain is what matters.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rob@rar, outside on the brain - yes, inside edge of outside ski of course!!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Avalanche Poodle wrote:
I'd just say being able to mix and match and apply it to the terrain is what matters.
This.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Avalanche Poodle wrote:
Steilhang, Get an empty wide piste ahead of you and they are wonderful (on the odd time you manage to get it right) I'd just say being able to mix and match and apply it to the terrain is what matters.
Yes indeed, but I don't really get that all that often. My problem is that carving is held up as being somehow the ultimate goal, but actually is only really something that most skiers can do on relatively flat and empty pistes. Nice when you get it, but not something I'd get hung up about. I guess what I'm trying to say is that other stuff is more important!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Steilhang, I'm actually getting more into short and medium turns these days. I get more fun out of those than anything on piste now that I am trying various SL and XR skis as opposed to the fat things I've been using for the past 6 years. I just found an old vid of me playing with the Kneissl White Star skis on the EOSB, I needed more shadow as I was actually doing turns all the way down but it looks from my head that I am straight lining lol. But take a look at this piste, this is what you could carve on. I had a grin from ear to ear. First 25 secs is track though http://youtube.com/v/kTTWVBUygyo
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Avalanche Poodle, funnily enough I'm currently piling sacrilege on sacrilege and am questioning whether you really need big fat skis to ski powder...* Just bought myself a pair of Völkl RTM 81s. and am having a lot of fun with them. I'm thinking the thing that makes the difference is the rocker and the fat shovel, which brings the tips up in the pow. The center of the ski isn't so important. I might be wrong though cos I have not yet had a chance to take them into really deep stuff.
Yes, that does look like fun btw!
*Bearing in mind that I learned to ski powder on 207 GS skis and did that for about 15 years before I switched to my first set of race carvers ( with wider tips, which suddenly made it so much easier ).
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Steilhang, Mine are not too fat, 98mm underfoot and not rockered but have what they used to call an early rise tip, but they are pretty good on piste, you can actually get them to carve, but given that I am a latecomer to skiing and my technique is sadly lacking I found switching to those from B2's made a hell of a difference, especially in very variable conditions. Last year I skied with a young racer who was on GS skis, he was skiing a forest so fast he was basically touching bumps to turn and going twice the speed I was But in powder, crud, doing small drops etc, I love something about 100 underfoot as a good all rounder. I took SL skis off piste for short distances last season and really struggled surprise surprise
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Steilhang, a lot of manufacturers agree, skis seem to be getting thinner at the waist again as the rest of the ski geometry gets more refined.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 25-12-13 21:39; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Steilhang wrote:
Avalanche Poodle, funnily enough I'm currently piling sacrilege on sacrilege and am questioning whether you really need big fat skis to ski powder...
I think I'll be going back to a 85-90ish underfoot twin tip next time.
Hmmmmm... Next time I'll be heading for a 105-110ish non twin, but I now own SL's for the hardpack days and will keep the 98 twins for general use, touring and park. I think that the ability to plant the skis in steep ground to put them on may outweigh the twin tip benefits for purely off piste.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Megamum wrote:
rob@rar, they all have it wrong above don't they - you know what I'm on about don't you? Not the turns in that racing video, or the stivot turns or the pivot turns. I'm on about those steered turns when you engage the inside edge of the outside ski and twist the foot to inscribe a curve of the size you want into the snow and steer the ski around the turn as opposed to the pure carved turn which, to do perfectly, results in a curve determined by the turn radius of the ski. Personally I think the steered turn is almost as hard to do as a carved turn, but I think it is more generally useful - the purpose of the thread was to see if folks agreed, but if they don't understand the steered turn and what I'm on about they can't do so. I think it's the difference between actively piloting a front wheel drive car and letting it pull itself around a cambered track at an optimum speed. Rob do you know of a slow mo steered turn video that will demonstrate the turn I'm interested in please?
So you really think that no-one in this thread understands what a steered turn is?
Can you carve a turn? If not, why would you not understand that they are harder to do than a steered turn, which I assume you can do?
Carved turns are not only at the radius of the ski, incline more and the ski bends more and makes a tighter arc.
Hmmmmm... Next time I'll be heading for a 105-110ish non twin, but I now own SL's for the hardpack days and will keep the 98 twins for general use, touring and park. I think that the ability to plant the skis in steep ground to put them on may outweigh the twin tip benefits for purely off piste.
You can plant twins should you so wish, I did it multiple times with mine when off piste last week, and we sure skied some steeps.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
jimmer, Yup, you can carve a ski much tighter than the stated radius, until you reach a point where your body weight / velocity combination can't bend it enough to make the turn. By that point you should be looking at turning pro
After all it is free
After all it is free
rasmanisar, I have the old Nordica Enforcers, the tail is so upturned that they are pretty much impossible to plant. It's almost at a kick backed 60 degree angle Glad to hear that the standard format are capable, I do like having twin tips.
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My two-pennorth - steered turns are a lot easier than carved turns. I can do a reasonable kind of steered turn but struggle mightily to do even one decent carved turn on a gentle blue piste.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
pam w, + 1
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Avalanche Poodle wrote:
rasmanisar, I have the old Nordica Enforcers, the tail is so upturned that they are pretty much impossible to plant. It's almost at a kick backed 60 degree angle Glad to hear that the standard format are capable, I do like having twin tips.
Damn, that must suck for getting them on! Mine are Atomic Alibis.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
pam w wrote:
My two-pennorth - steered turns are a lot easier than carved turns. I can do a reasonable kind of steered turn but struggle mightily to do even one decent carved turn on a gentle blue piste.
To be honest I doubt you can struggle that much? Carving (at least, for me) on a blue is literally a matter of tipping your ankles sideways so that your skis sit on the edges, and away you go. It gets harder on steeper terrain with varying snow conditions, but IMO lovely smooth blues are carving heaven.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rasmanisar wrote:
To be honest I doubt you can struggle that much?
Most people do. I see a very small proportion of skiers on the hill making cleanly linked carved turns, even on gentle slopes.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rob@rar, I really think it's more a matter of confidence and being able to take things really slowly. I tried learning to carve on greens and gradually built up; it is honestly so difficult to make the transition from one direction to another without skidding a bit. After almost 50 weeks of skiing I still struggle on steeper slopes, you pick up so much speed.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Avalanche Poodle, I think that's exactly right. When I'm teaching those skills I will start on gentle slopes (steep green, very easy blue perhaps) and build up the key moves step by step. Lots and lots of skiers, including those with many miles beneath their skis, struggle to make a clean transition from one turn to another without twisting their skis, so the first part of their turns are often skidded to some degree.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rob@rar, at least pam w and I are honest about our failings!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The Flying Gooseberry, But also most women underestimate their abilities, and most men overestimate the same. Not a hard and fast rule, I've known some female motorbike racers that beat most of the professional men in the sport.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Megamum wrote:
rob@rar, they all have it wrong above don't they - you know what I'm on about don't you? Not the turns in that racing video, or the stivot turns or the pivot turns. I'm on about those steered turns when you engage the inside edge of the outside ski and twist the foot to inscribe a curve of the size you want into the snow and steer the ski around the turn as opposed to the pure carved turn which, to do perfectly, results in a curve determined by the turn radius of the ski. Personally I think the steered turn is almost as hard to do as a carved turn, but I think it is more generally useful - the purpose of the thread was to see if folks agreed, but if they don't understand the steered turn and what I'm on about they can't do so. I think it's the difference between actively piloting a front wheel drive car and letting it pull itself around a cambered track at an optimum speed. Rob do you know of a slow mo steered turn video that will demonstrate the turn I'm interested in please?
If you're turning and not carving, you're probably doing steered turns - that's the default turn for pretty much everyone.
. After almost 50 weeks of skiing I still struggle on steeper slopes, you pick up so much speed.
The physics are the same. I've always found that steeper slopes hurt less when you fall and if you stay committed the skis work and you don't fall. Very similar to counter steering on a bike. Works OK at 20 MPH. Works even better dropping on your knee at 100+ but your brain is shouting 'this won't work - I will die.' Once you don't die a few times your brain stops pestering you to bail out and it works without fail. Do a few track days and then remember that you never really go very quickly on skis
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Kenny, surely for L4 all disciplines must be a full pass?
No. You need to average 60% and pass 6 of the 8 runs.
Last edited by After all it is free on Thu 26-12-13 13:24; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
jimmer wrote:
I have never heard of this no carving in CSIA business before, all the L4s I've skied with carve well
Well now you have! It was explained to me by an examiner that if you check out the tracks in the snow they shouldn't be pure railroads.
rollo on Epic wrote:
I remember on a level 4 exam a few years back a lot of guys from the coast turned up to the 6m corridor on their SL skis, 13-14m skis, they skied inside the corridor, but due to their lack of steering skills, the aggressive sidecut and the width of the turn that they needed to perform they were unable to create arc to arc turns, instead it turned into looping turns where they threw the skis sideways and hoped and prayed, increasing speed as they went. Needless to say, when the requirement of the task was to show arc to arc, steered high performance turns, and the examiners were making 8 to 12 turns down the corridor and the coastal candidates only made 5, you can probably guess their results.(I used a 16m ski in a 174 showed more pivoting and grabbed a 7/10)
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
jimmer wrote:
So you really think that no-one in this thread understands what a steered turn is?
Can you carve a turn? If not, why would you not understand that they are harder to do than a steered turn, which I assume you can do?
Carved turns are not only at the radius of the ski, incline more and the ski bends more and makes a tighter arc.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
I'd just say being able to mix and match and apply it to the terrain is what matters.
But in powder, crud, doing small drops etc, I love something about 100 underfoot as a good all rounder. I took SL skis off piste for short distances last season and really struggled surprise surprise 
Glad to hear that the standard format are capable, I do like having twin tips.
