 Poster: A snowHead
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achilles,
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But they are very expensive for a humble punter like myself. And their scope - for me - is also limited to 'Peak Experience'.
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Yes, quite, that's partly why I'm wavering.
Latchigo,
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Perhaps if you were in a rep resort and took the opportunity to ski with the rep for a day you might have a different outlook
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Maybe. I usually ski with friends who are not Ski Club members.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Latchigo wrote: |
I must admit I like the idea of foregoing drinks at the AGM and giving David Goldsmith vouchers to do missionary work on the club's behalf in that part of the world. Travel to each venue to be by carbon-friendly means. Free green wristbands for all attendees. |
Latchigo, I understand that 35,000 green wristbands were supplied to the Club. According to the SCGB website, "£6,816.22 was raised from the sale of Respect the Mountain wristbands", which is a total sale of 3,400 wristbands at £2 each (if 'raised' is the gross sales figure)
From memory, the production cost of the wristbands was £7000, so if the £6,816 figure is net, a total of about 7,000 wristbands have been sold.
From the above calculation we can conclude that there are around 28,000 to 30,000 unsold wristbands (though some may have been given away). If there are any left I'll consider your missionary position.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 26-11-07 15:51; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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there are around 28,000 to 30,000 unsold wristbands
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(1) how long will it take them to biodegrade? (2) can you run a Saab on them?... maybe link them together and wind up (3) piled up in a heap and cannoned with snow, what elevation would there be and how long would the run be? (4) would it save on postage if copies of Ski & Bored were catapulted to members using the bands?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Never mind all that. What's your neck size, Swiller?
Respect the Marketing
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
| if the reps are done for, I would fold the lot - though I am puzzled why 82%, or whatever, of the members belong now. |
Inertia.
And, of the remaining 18%, most would probably remain as members. I was clearly joking above about scrapping everything but, in reality, you could get away with stripping out loads of money-eating fringe activities and refocus to give members what they really could use. Why, for example, have an office near London? Why not several satellite offices in the alps? (phones work out there too you know). Why not buy a few club hotels in a few strategically important resorts? Take on full-time UIAGM guides? None of that may be the answer but time for some re-invention methinks. |
Exciting stuff. But I think without the reps, all of that would be better run by a straightforward commercial operation. Trouble is, despite what some snowheads have said, the Club as it stands really is a not-for-profit organization, run by a board of directors who, apart from expenses receive no remuneration. Mostly they are reps - or ex-reps. So I wonder what their interest would be if the rep system was spayed. Maybe the best thing that could happen (should the rep system fold) would be for the club to be bought out by entrepreneurs who might reinvent the Club along new lines. Who knows? There could even be a management buy-out.
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There could even be a management buy-out
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There's a famous phrase I'm searching for... something about lunatics, asylums, can't think now.
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achilles, you've implied that the Club is mostly run by reps or ex-reps.
Here's a relevant point from the Ski Club Governance Statement, section 3 "Compliance with principles of good corporate governance":
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| Council comprises independent non-executive members and no group dominates decision making |
So ... does 'a group' dominate decision making, in your view?
I think we should be told.
I have sat on SCGB Council as a non-rep (or non-ex-rep) and felt quite comfortable with that. I was there to represent the membership - simple as that. I do support the governance statement - the focus must always be on the whole paying membership, its best interests and common demominators.
I don't share your implication that people aren't willing to give up time to run a ski club unless there's repping. There are hundreds of ski clubs around the world without repping [in fact, I think the SCGB is unique in its emphasis].
There are also many ways of running a national ski club which don't over-burden the directors ... especially with litigation issues etc, so let's eliminate the causes of those issues.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
There are hundreds of ski clubs around the world without repping [in fact, I think the SCGB is unique in its emphasis].
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Indeed. However, my take on that is that is a special feature worth cherishing.
Without it SCGB just becomes another run-of-the-mill, two bob ski club with no particular benefit over any other.
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It seems the members have spoken and they all want repping to continue. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David Goldsmith, if you still have access, look for yourself at the composition of the council on the SCGB site. It is a few years since I bothered to check but IIRC when I did, all bar one of the council were reps. I suspect they were the only group who could be bothered to be put up for nomination. If the repping system goes, I cannot imagine anyone would run a 30,000 strong organization for all the hassle and grief for no financial reward. So if the reps go, then it's either flog off the assets and shut the shop - or cry havoc and let loose the commercial dogs, IMV.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
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There could even be a management buy-out
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There's a famous phrase I'm searching for... something about lunatics, asylums, can't think now. |
Maybe. OTOH CST ran Freshtracks as her own company before she became Chief Exec. Given a free hand, she might make a fist of it again.
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Another model which could be adopted would be less commercial - a kind of BBSki. You pay a licence fee to own a pair of skis (ski detector vans would trawl every street for transgressors) and you fund a universal entertainment, news and information organisation for skiers.
Actually, maybe it would be safer to make it a 'ski goggle licence' or 'thermal underwear licence'. Everyone owns those, whereas many people rent skis abroad.
Joking apart, though, I think there's a lot to be said for a bit of 'blue skies thinking' here.
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You know it makes sense.
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achilles,
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Maybe. OTOH CST ran Freshtracks as her own company before she became Chief Exec. Given a free hand, she might make a fist of it again.
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How successful was it, if it was a commercial success why was she willing to let SCGB take it over?
The question is not rhetorical I haven't a clue how successful or otherwise it was, but thought it was a funny deal at the time. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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T Bar, it was before my time, but this how I was told it went. Remember that CS-T ran the Ski Club before going off to form Freshtracks. After her departure things fell apart a bit and the club nosedived (particularly in financial terms). She was then persuaded to come back, I assume with extensive arm-twisting, heartstrings etc and some sort of offer she couldn't refuse, and a condition of that was that she could bring Freshtracks back into the fold with her.
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Poster: A snowHead
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GrahamN,
Thanks, sounds like a buy out could suit everyone then. David Goldsmith, could get a return on his years of membership and be able to tell everyone that he was right about it being a commercial organisation.
Other members would get money and . the reps would still be there if commercially viable and admin, would be able to sell them an effective snow based forum and everyone would live happily ever after. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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T Bar, pretty much as GrahmamN tells it - plus a 'goodwill' payment for FreshTracks, IIRC.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Another model which could be adopted would be less commercial - a kind of BBSki. |
All the money would be spent on administrators. Rep numbers would be curtailed.
The BBSki would spend all it time telling us it was the finest in the world
Subscriptions would go up by more than inflation every year.
All skiers in other clubs would moan about also having to pay a fee to BBSki
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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That reminds me the BBC used to have a ski club. We went to a lot of dry slopes with them, as one of our lot worked for the BBC.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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GrahamN, It's correct that Caroline Stuart-Taylor left the Ski Club to establish and run Fresh Tracks for a few years, but before that she never ran the Club - she was a departmental manager (marketing, holidays). The Club was run by various ex-military gents and a general manager at one time. The first Chief Exec to be appointed - Inga Grimsey (who came from the retail sector) - ran the Club while Caroline S-T was operating Fresh Tracks.
Caroline's first major responsibility on returning as Chief Exec, in conjunction with the then Chairman Alan Chandler, was the disposal of the lease of 118 Eaton Square and the move to Wimbledon.
This all happened in 1996. The trade and goodwill of Fresh Tracks was purchased on 15 June 1996 for £40,000.
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David Goldsmith, what (apart from charity and masochism) keeps you in the club as a member? For pretty well everyone else on this thread it seems to be reps, freshtracks and discounts.
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The general cultural stimulation and heritage
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ok, disband it, sell the building and share the proceeds among the members with the payment weighted towards those who have been members the longest. Building and other assets worth maybe £5m, add in the green wristband mountain... = maybe £6m... divided by 19,000 paying members... = £315... weighted for longevity... D Goldsmith you are due £2.8 million. Nice one.
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I'm preparared to sell my vote for £150 for my share of cultural stimulation and heritage, if the reps go. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The rules have been changed so that you need an enormous percentage of the membership to vote in favour. An anti carpet bagging measure. I am sure David Goldsmith can give you chapter and verse.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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David Goldsmith, what (apart from charity and masochism) keeps you in the club as a member?
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......yep .............even though he's banned from the ski club chatroom he hasn't taken the hint................... 
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even though he's banned from the ski club chatroom
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How anal can a club get? He's not exactly Osama Bin Laden or out there proliforating nuclear arms. It's a chatroom FFS. No wonder SCGB doesn't appeal to the masses... 1.2 million skiers, 104 years to get it right... under 19000 paying members, under 2% penetration, go figure.
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You know it makes sense.
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Latchigo, sure. I think you'll find the AA had a similar clause. And Northerrn Rock 
The membership voted happily enough in both cases. Without the reps, I don't think there would be any loyalty amognst the membership. So if the Council could not keep the reps, and wanted to flog off the club, I think the membership would go along with it. As DG says, blue skies thinking (yuk) may be needed.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Bode Swiller, its a club . If you don't like what its doing, go join it and become chairman. Now that would be fun.
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Poster: A snowHead
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blue skies thinking
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or, in their case, taking a helicopter view 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bode Swiller, just out of interest, what have you done that could be considered noteworthy as far as wintersports is concerned?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bode Swiller, It may be a forum but you could count the number of regular posters on the fingers of two hands.
It did get too intense, but those posters who turned up were very civil to one another at the AGM.
Maybe there is something in the notion that ski club members are not interested in internet forums.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Latchigo wrote: |
| .........Maybe there is something in the notion that ski club members are not interested in internet forums. |
I think that is true. On the rear occasions that I have mentioned this and the Club forum to other SCGB members, there has been little knowledge or interest. To be fair, taking the wider skiing public what - 2million or so? there is very little interest in snowheads, either.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bode Swiller, - were you there ?
IMHO the quality of "chat" has improved and more "newbies" are hanging around since DG's access was restricted ( denied) Threads on subjects such as Reps and off piste skiing are able to follow a rational debate. Before there were half a dozen members trying to refute DG's interminable and oft repeated arguments on a dozen annually repeated topics - and several people getting fed up of the whole thing and leaving the chatroom and/or club.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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achilles, there would be sweeping changes... 10 quid a year membership for men, free for fit women, £765 for snowboarders. No HQ, no mag, no green wash, autonomous profit-making club hotels in top twenty alpine resorts, improvement-based ski holiday programs, resident UIAGM guides overseeing reps and running their ongoing training, demo centres, change name, free milk, OBE and/or Knighthood for me. Vote Swiller on Thursday and I'll bung you good and proper.
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| PJSki wrote: |
| Bode Swiller, just out of interest, what have you done that could be considered noteworthy as far as wintersports is concerned? |
I refer you to my manifesto above.
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Bode Swiller
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| He's not exactly Osama Bin Laden |
No, not this year.
It got me into Windsor Castle, but people tend to dress more conventionally for the AGM.
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| Scrumpy wrote: |
| ...more "newbies" are hanging around since DG's access was restricted ... |
Makes me sound like some sort of child molester!
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FAQ
