 Poster: A snowHead
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| Pruman wrote: |
That Planet ski interview tells you all you need to know. You can somehow tell that he didn't believe in it and identified the issue perfectly:
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| "Our existing demographic is getting older and older and we are not bringing new blood into the club..... the average age of our membership was 46 in 2009 and now, in 2018, it's 53." |
The momentum is all the wrong way and accelerating. The "new blood" as he puts it will do anything but join a crusty old idea. It's why some clubs just pack up and divi up the remaining cash among the members. If you were starting a brand new club from scratch would you end up with something that looks and feels like SCGB? No, no you wouldn't. So it's simply no longer fit for purpose, has a very limited shelf life left and may as well quit while the cash balance is still positive.
The benefits aren't unique, too few people really love it and care about it and the club doesn't seem have a defined vision or purpose. |
Everything you say there was said by snowHeads in 2004 yet the Ski Club is still going. The Ski Club demographic seems to follow the disposable income demographic of the UK. I joined the club at 22 when skiing was cheap and so were houses.
It’s been interesting to see how hard some of you are prepared to work to perpetuate negative myths about the Ski Club and its members.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Gerry wrote: |
The Ski Club demographic seems to follow the disposable income demographic of the UK. I joined the club at 22 when skiing was cheap and so were houses.
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Snowheads seems to be populated by quite a few comfortably off crusties too so you may have something there.
I note in the PSki interview " at a time when almost the entire UK based ski industry is contracting"
so there is a general decline, well except for Snowhead's socks !
Still here is Neylon's problem he wanted to: create compelling reasons to be a member of the Ski Club, through fun on snow experiences and engaging social activities, providing our members memorable lifetime ski journeys
l guess it looked good on a Powerpoint but it is management claptrap that isn't going to speak to a 16 year old.
They also want to create "new initiatives"
as opposed to "old initiatives" ?
Seeing "snowboarding" as the future makes me think they've just about caught up with... the 1990s! (still that's better than the 1890s and Arnold Lunn, I guess).
So what does the future bring?
> possibly a ‘resort takeover'
sounds like something Bullingdon club members would like ! It would be like dad's army I think.
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| "Make no bones about it, this is a sink or swim moment for the Ski Club of Great Britain, It is at a cross roads, it needs to dust itself off and get back on its game, some think it is past its sell-by-date but only time will tell" said James Cove, who was the ski club's cliche rep of the year in 1962. |
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Fri 26-04-19 16:56; edited 6 times in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Gerry,
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It’s been interesting to see how hard some of you are prepared to work to perpetuate negative myths about the Ski Club and its members.
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Your own actions, as an officer of the Club, caused me (with no previous axe to grind at all) to have negative feelings about the Club. No need to blame other people's 'hard work' your own work is successful in its own right.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
The Ski Club demographic seems to follow the disposable income demographic of the UK. I joined the club at 22 when skiing was cheap and so were houses.
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Snowheads seems to be populated by quite a few comfortably off crusties too so you may have something there. |
And? It is also populated by many not-so-crusties. And a snowHead holiday is significantly cheaper than a Ski Club one, or it was last time I looked.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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[quote="Hurtle"]
| davidof wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
The Ski Club demographic seems to follow the disposable income demographic of the UK. I joined the club at 22 when skiing was cheap and so were houses.
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And a snowHead holiday is significantly cheaper than a Ski Club one, or it was last time I looked. |
Self catering? No instructor/guide included in the basic price? Ski Club holidays cost more than your Bashes because they include more in the price.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 26-04-19 17:59; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Pruman wrote: |
Been trying to get on the Ski Club website since yesterday morning.
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| The forum is down too. |
Doesn't really matter, nobody posts on there any more.....
For example, last post in "Snow Conditions", 12th Feb, at least it was this year 
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| Gerry wrote: |
| ... The Ski Club of Great Britain doesn’t make a profit although I do accept this is difficult for small minded snowHeads to get there limit intellects around. ... |
Obviously non-profits have to be aware of their numbers or they will not survive. Selling insurance is a commercial enterprise, irrespective.
They do need to get a media relations policy in place. A few rules would stop people representing them behaving badly and
leaving a very negative impression of the organisation out here on the internet. I suppose I didn't care either way, but this
sort of behaviour leaves a very bad taste.
| Hurtle wrote: |
| Your own actions, as an officer of the Club, caused me (with no previous axe to grind at all) to have negative feelings about the Club. ... |
Me too - it's a sort of negative media relations l-)
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Sooo defensive...seems like a guilty conscience...wasn't me guv, ''twas the evil snowheads...blame dem, blame dem!! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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[quote="Gerry"]
| Hurtle wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
The Ski Club demographic seems to follow the disposable income demographic of the UK. I joined the club at 22 when skiing was cheap and so were houses.
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And a snowHead holiday is significantly cheaper than a Ski Club one, or it was last time I looked. |
Self catering? No instructor/guide included in the basic price? Ski Club holidays cost more than your Bashes because they include more in the price. |
There are several bashes which are half board in excellent hotels and excellent value too. 
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Some with excellent guides too 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
@Gerry,
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It’s been interesting to see how hard some of you are prepared to work to perpetuate negative myths about the Ski Club and its members.
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Your own actions, as an officer of the Club, caused me (with no previous axe to grind at all) to have negative feelings about the Club. No need to blame other people's 'hard work' your own work is successful in its own right. |
Me on my own? Here's one of your Ski Club forum posts from 09 May 2007:
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I propose a little survey...
1) Do you think David Goldsmith's many suggestions posted on this site might enhance the running of the Club or would you be happier just to allow the elected Council members to get on with the job?
2) Do you feel you have enough information about the way that the Ski Club is run? If not, what further information would you like (eg copies of the Memo and Arts, minutes of Council meetings etc)?
3) Do David Goldsmith's contributions enhance or detract from your enjoyment of the Club or of this forum?
4) Do you feel you get value for money from your membership?
5) Would you like to contribute your services to the Club in some way?
Please answer as briefly or in as much detail as you wish. It will be interesting to see just how many people can be bothered to contribute to this forum at all.
To start the ball rolling, my answers are as follows:
1) I'd prefer the elected Council members just to get on with it. However, if I were to get in touch with 'management' with a suggestion, or any matter that was worrying me, I'd like to think that they would at least give me a fair hearing.
2) Yes, I have as much information as I want. I haven't read the Memo and Articles, nor do I attend AGMs - I have simply no desire to do so.
3) They enormously detract from my enjoyment. My personal view is that people would do better not to respond and then these mind-numbingly boring threads would die a natural death. I would rather have no forum at all, than one which is so hugely dominated by one person and his views - whether they are right or wrong. The goings-on on this forum contribute to my reluctance to attend any social or business meetings of the Club whatosever.
4) Yes, and that's even without skiing with the Reps. I have derived value from the extensive information on this website, from numerous valuable discounts and from Freshtracks/the travel service.From everything I see and hear, the repping service is wonderful, I simply don't happen to have availed myself of it, as I usually ski with non-Ski Club members.
5) No. I contribute my services voluntarily in other fields (apart from skiing), I'm not a good enough skier to rep and I am not competent to contribute to the running of the website.
I shall look forward to seeing people's replies, particularly if there are any from others than those who might be called the usual suspects. |
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Gerry, fair point. Not quite on your own! But it was you who pushed me over the edge and I'm sure that you could find suitable evidence of that, though I don't expect you post it. Your quotation does prove that I was a fan of the Club once.
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@Hurtle, I can't quote things that you insisted were removed at the time now can I?
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You know it makes sense.
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@Gerry, if you say so
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| @Gerry, if you say so |
Give me a clue what I'm looking for then.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Gerry, my memory is hazy, but I seem to remember that I cited you, either on the forum or in a message to 'management', as a reason for flouncing. But, whether there's evidence available or not, your shocking behaviour and language were what pushed me over the edge.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Hurtle, did I tell Goldsmith to fuck off or something? Director or not, I wouldn't put that passed me. I work on a building site, I'm not Henry fucking Kissinger. Although I don't swear when I'm doing on-snow stuff for the club.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Gerry, well, to be fair, I have been told more than once that you are sweetness and light on snow.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Gerry like @Hurtle I've got no interest in the Ski Club, but if I had then your contributions here would certainly put me off joining. I'm telling you this just for information, I don't expect you to change as you seem incapable of accepting feedback.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Valkyrie wrote: |
| @Gerry like @Hurtle I've got no interest in the Ski Club, but if I had then your contributions here would certainly put me off joining. I'm telling you this just for information, I don't expect you to change as you seem incapable of accepting feedback. |
I would never judge any large group of people (25,000 in the case of the Ski Club) on the basis of one individual from that group. If you do then that’s a problem your have.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Too much of the entrenched position in all this.
I like being a Member of SCGB. I like a bit of the history. I really love the Rep/Leader idea and elevate to god-like position those who perform this role. I like the camaraderie that I share with others who have skied with the same Leaders. I went , on my own, to two resorts this year simply because there was a Leader in each, I knew each Leader, and I knew I would have company. I love the skill-level based holidays and see nowhere else where this is offered. The groups I ski with at other times all take their basis back to meeting folk as Club Members and I have loyalty to The Club for having given me those friends. Skiers tend to be isolated in their living locations because it is a minority sport and some sort of central gathering point is really marvelous.
In fact I rather think that all the above is the position where Snowheads would progress to if SCGB wasn't there.And eventually it would become "The Establishment". And then some upstart organisation would start up thinking it could reinvent the wheel, far better than the old duffers who were in charge.
But all that costs money. Any decent snowhead chips in around £30 quid a year just for the privilege of being able to go online and chat, or give advice, or criticise, their chosen sport. ( memo; Am I up to date with payments ?)
SCGB does more than SH so needs more money....it is a fine point to decide how much more can be expected before reaction sets in.
And a fine point to decide how much peripheral background the organisation can provide before it starts to get top-heavy.
I am pretty confident that Ski Club Council Members (who rotate and thus remain dynamic ) can think likewise , and do, and I am stopping now because I have come to the difficult bit.....providing the answers.
The Club needs to be encouraged to progress organically rather than to fold up and die. It fulfils a great need. All strength to The Council.
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@Farley Goode, as a matter of interest, have you ever been on a snowHeads Bash?
I have been on Freshtracks holidays. On one the Leader was wonderful, on another the Leader was terrible, almost to the point of negligence. And, on the subject of skill-based holidays, I have posted on here before about the annoyance of going on a holiday which was billed as being for people new to off-piste and finding it peopled with a clique of expert skiers who were on their annual trip to their favourite resort to ski with their favourite instructors, and were pretty impatient with the beginners.
By way of contrast, I have never been on a Bash which has done anything other than what it says on the tin. I have made many friends, people look out for one another even though there are no formal 'leaders' and top level instruction/guiding is available for every level of skier (and even boarders!) extraordinarily cheaply. In short, I really don't agree that, in resort, SCGB does any more than snowHeads. It certainly has a much bigger administrative structure to find money for, though!
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| Farley Goode wrote: |
... Any decent snowhead chips in around £30 quid a year just for the privilege of being able to go online and chat, or give advice, or criticise, their chosen sport. ( memo; Am I up to date with payments ?)
... |
You can do that for free.
But you haven't really pointed out a problem. All seems well for you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I was once gonna buy a freshtracks holiday but you had to join the club to spend a lot of money on a holiday that was not a bargain by any stretch. Seemed strange that joining would be required to go on a pacKate holiday.
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@madlondoner, Quality control, old chap. You should see some of the riff-raff they let on bashes!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@martinm, Don't be so hard on yourself 
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@Hurtle, I haven't been on a SH Bash...often intended to but ski weeks are limited . They get more numerous by the year and ultimately, as I said, they will reach the stage of categorising and then more admin will be needed, etc etc. And I think we agree that running costs is at the heart of The Club's dilemma at this time.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Farley Goode,
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they will reach the stage of categorising
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They are already categorised. And I wouldn't say they've got more numerous, rather that a few of the Bashes have become two-weekers, which presumably facilitates administration.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Some lively and entertaining banter on another thread ...
"Ski Club End of Season party, anyone going?"
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=147712
| Gerry wrote: |
Yet the Ski Club remains relevant to its 27,000 members. |
Another downturn?
The SCGB officially states today "over 30,000 members" on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ski-club-of-great-britain
But the key point is that the Club outlined (in late 2018) a strategy to double its membership in 3 years. This is exactly what SCGB chairman Malcolm Bentley stated in the Club's annual report last autumn:
"The plan identifies a large number of initiatives across all our activities to ... deliver a doubling of membership and subscriptions, holiday numbers, revenue, insurance policies and commission over the next three years.
On that basis, why is it reported that a member who asked for the membership figure to be quoted at the last annual general meeting [15 Nov 2018] was only given this figure (apparently privately) "later in the meeting"?
If the 2018 three-year plan was/is to double membership from Nov 2018 ... i.e. to achieve 55,000 to 60,000 members by 2021 ... what has been the progress with this by season-end 2018-19?
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Poster: A snowHead
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A certain @Gerry, is no doubt scaring them away.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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maybe they are counting sockpuppets on their forum in that figure... oh hang on...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If I had to bet using the "family membership" numbers they are probably at 12-13k paying units - let's say they flog holidays to 2500 people then that multiple doesn't look crazy. Doubling membership to say 25 k payers looks like a pipe dream although arguably if they are making all their moolah from holidays, insurance and "commissions" they only need charge a nominal membership fee to bring sheep through the door to be shorn.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Let's remember that the Skeeb also has its 'Line-S' division going ...
https://www.line-s.co.uk/
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With over 20,000 members, we are the the largest student snowsports club in the UK.
Proudly part of the Ski Club of Great Britain |
And, further down the page ...
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| Started in 1903, the Ski Club of Great Britain is the oldest and largest organisation of its sort in the world, with over 28,000 members. |
Line-S is now 4 years old (founded 2015) and the same questions continue:
1. Are Line-S members (paying no subscription fee?) also members of the SCGB?
2. Do Line-S members (students) ever graduate?
3. When they graduate, do they cease to become Line-S members?
4. How many Line-S members have converted to become conventional SCGB members?
[that's enough questions - Ed.]
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The actual SCGB membership numbers are freely available on the SCGB website. They are included in the Annual Reports under Member Statistics. They're a little difficult to find but look under "About the Ski Club" and "About us" at the bottom of the home page then click on Annual Reports. The 2018 figure was 26692 and a figure of about 500 less than that was given at the AGM - half way through the reporting year. The membership has been falling by about 1000 per year for at least the last 10 years. If I could work out how to add graphics to this I would be able to show you how the membership has fallen and how this looks by age group. All of this information is available on the website.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| Valkyrie wrote: |
| @Gerry like @Hurtle I've got no interest in the Ski Club, but if I had then your contributions here would certainly put me off joining. I'm telling you this just for information, I don't expect you to change as you seem incapable of accepting feedback. |
I would never judge any large group of people (25,000 in the case of the Ski Club) on the basis of one individual from that group. If you do then that’s a problem your have. |
Bit of a naive thing to say. A decision is based on evidence for and against - and if you only have evidence against something, then that's what you'll base your decision on. Word of mouth is one of the most important aspects in informing a decision. It may not be fair but it's how the world works. That's why companies invest in PR/Marketing/Online Search - to inform people of the good things about your club/brand etc.
There may be a thousand brands/clubs out there hidden that may be suitable for me, but without marketing/PR/word of mouth, I'll never know.
My point is - I ski 3-4 weeks a year and spend quite a bit of money, yet I know nothing about what the Ski Club do. I've never seen any marketing/PR, never seen them come up in my online ski searches, I don't know what they stand for or what I would get for my money. Who know's, it might be the perfect club for me!
However, in my pre-snowhead days, all my snow related google searches seemed to point me to Snowheads and the wealth of information here. It seemed to answer every question I had! So eventually it made sense to register.
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'I really love the Rep/Leader idea and elevate to god-like position those who perform this role.'
All the reps I've come across have been of a type: failed public schoolboys with a plummy accent and ingrained sense of entitlement whose pitch is along the lines of 'of course, anyone discerning would want to be a member, yah?' and a total inability to justify the cost/benefit of membership. I rejected joining when I was 35 and in the intervening 30 years, whenever I've revisited SCGB, I have seen nothing to change this. If anything, the market has moved on and I see even less benefits for the cost of membership in the Internet age.
And if you can't make a succinct case after 132 pages of posting, then I'd say the odds are that the proposition is no longer convincing.
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@LaForet, To be fair lots of skiers have non-skiing partners, are single or simply have family or work commitments that place various constraints on their ability to ski at a time of their choosing. At the same time lots of skiers are uncomfortable skiing alone or prefer a social environment around their skiing. It seems that SCGB used to address this amply - the rep "guiding" system providing ready made ski buddies for people in such circumstances plus more formally organised holidays.
As the "on snow" value of the rep service has eroded and it is easier than ever to find people of a similar mind when you happen to be in a particular resort (e..g by simply posting on sHs) obviously it seems to me that the value proposition has changed somewhat. Despite my antipathy toward it ( as I tend toward the Groucho Marx view of clubs and in particular the cliquey behaviour that clubs tend to facilitate/encourage) I have no reason to criticise those that do benefit from its services. And let's also be clear some SCGB members are bloody good skiers. I bleive lots of SCGB members have also attended and enjoyed/defected to SH bashes.
So if @Gerry or any other self appointed keepers of the SCGB flame want to state and justify the current value proposition that's fine by me. Shame he can only do it by throwing around the bedwetting jibes.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
never seen them come up in my online ski searches
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Not sure what you're searching for, but I've just googled 'Snow Reports' and 'Ski News' and in both searches the Ski Club was the second result. Not paid, but organic search.
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| Handy Turnip wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| Valkyrie wrote: |
| @Gerry like @Hurtle I've got no interest in the Ski Club, but if I had then your contributions here would certainly put me off joining. I'm telling you this just for information, I don't expect you to change as you seem incapable of accepting feedback. |
I would never judge any large group of people (25,000 in the case of the Ski Club) on the basis of one individual from that group. If you do then that’s a problem your have. |
Bit of a naive thing to say. |
I'm not so naive as to imagine people don't think like that, it's just I don't personally do that. For example, I don't think that every bloke who drives X make of car is a wanker, nor do I think that all Dutch people think like Stanton. People who do think like that are the very people I don't want to know.
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FAQ
