 Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, From southern NL I go through Trier - roughly Mulhouse/Basel then you know... "east".  It's probably time I investedin a satnav because there must be limits on how many times you can go the wrong way around Lake Lucerne...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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NATS update
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Statement on Icelandic volcanic eruption: Monday April 19, 0830
Based on the latest information from the Met Office, NATS advises that the current restrictions across UK controlled airspace due to the volcanic ash cloud will remain in place until at least 0100 (local) on Tuesday 20th April.
Anyone hoping to travel should contact their airline before travelling to the airport.
Conditions around the movement of the layers of the volcanic ash cloud over the UK remain dynamic. NATS is maintaining close dialogue with the Met Office and with the UK's safety regulator, the CAA, in respect of the international civil aviation policy we follow in applying restrictions to use of airspace. We are currently awaiting CAA guidance.
We are working closely with Government, airports and airlines, and airframe and aero engine manufacturers to get a better understanding of the effects of the ash cloud and to seek solutions. |
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Nadenoodlee, That is the point, isn't it? The extent of this ash cloud (invisible though it is) is much greater than anything I've seen promulgated in Indonesia or the West Indies. The wrong kind of ash?
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planeurge, I have heard it suggested, by aviation industry spokesmen, that the maps of the extent of the cloud are derived from computer models rather than direct measurement. Does anyone have more information?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Quite a few aircraft appear to be flying "in" the ash cloud this morning from what I can see. e.g. AF380S which looks like it's on the way to Paris maybe. Test flights, I guess?
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Husband going to be at least one week late coming home, even for him thats bad...
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Best comment I have seen so far on this
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The problem here is that there is no quantified scale of risk and response associated with volcanic events. We have an ever-improving ability to monitor and detect atmospheric anomalies such as volcanic residue, but we don't have a recognised methodology for determining a factored 'safe' suspension of contaminants in the atmosphere. At the moment, because we have ancient and now demonstrably inadequate rules, the mantra is 'any volcanic dust, don't fly'. But that rule was instigated at a time when our only reliable way of detecting such residue was visual - so, if it could be seen, it was relatively simple and not too disruptive to apply a defined 'avoid' area, which included a buffer zone 'just in case'. That worked fine, and the many hundreds of volcanic eruptions where that rule has been applied and followed have not caused us more than temporary inconvenience.
Now we have a situation where we can not only see far more of the stuff, but we can use very powerful computers to estimate, extrapolate and give 'worst case' projections - to which we then apply the 'any dust, don't fly' rule. As we are beginning to realise, the regulatory tools just aren't up to the job. In tandem with our improved detection and prediction techniques, we need - and very quickly - a comprehensive analysis of what is safe, what is 'safe enough (but possibly expensive in engineering terms)', what is marginal, and what is a definite 'no go'.
Without that comprehensively revised regulatory matrix, we are stuck with VAACs saying 'there's potentially dust EVERYWHERE', rules that say 'you can't fly', and politicians unwilling to put their careers on the line to make some kind of pragmatic decision. In the meantime, economies, airlines, importers and exporters, and many millions of peoples occupations, go to the wall.
Safety is not an static absolute. It is always a dynamic compromise. It's time a few politicians woke up to that. |
To be fair, it's not just politicians and bureaucrats in NATS - the aircraft and engine manufacturers also need to be involved - together with authorities such as the CAA and FAA. I think this will get resolved - and by normal standards the resolution will be very quick - but that could still be a matter of weeks, though I hope not.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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achilles, that quote seems very reasonable, with the exception of the final sentence. Do we really want politicians anywhere near decisions like this - especially at the time of an election?
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rob@rar, I think the politicians should limit themselves to making sure that the relevant people are speaking to each other, and that appropriate authorities are taking a lead.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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achilles, agreed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Chaps in the bar say April 28th before commercial flights might fly again normally 
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 19-04-10 11:05; edited 1 time in total
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I think you'll find our current shower of shite are more interested in Cheryl Cole's marriage and Wayne Rooney's foot than running the country. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, I wouldn't say that I was driving quite like that, but I admit I wasn't dawdling along at 100 kph either, which would make me lose concentration and less alert. There were loads of mobile Police radars around as well - at least 3 I saw on the way up and quite a few cars pulled over (mostly Brits and Belgians), so it wasn't advisable to really put your foot down anyway.
I made a couple of brief petrol/loo/sandwich stops, but I was 100% alert until I hit the long queue at passport control which was a drag but understandable given the circumstances. If you park at the Eurotunnel terminal until your train is called, and if it is as busy as on Sunday, try and park in the first one or two lanes as they were getting into the queue for passport control relatively quickly whereas it took a long time to be able to filter into the queue from where I was.
But otherwise the roads were very clear, although driving on a Sunday always helps as there are few lorries on the road.
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Poster: A snowHead
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yes we normally try to drive on Sunday but this time for domestic reasons at home, that won't work. Generally I drive to the speed limits, traffic permitting (which it generally does) and have to make sure it doesn't creep over the 130 every now and then. With minimal stops every two hours (which is the recommended interval) we take 10 hours to Calais when the roads are dry - longer when they're wet with a 110 km/h limit - and we're just over an hour and a half further than Geneva. This time we're going to take two days and stay off the peage, spending the toll money saved on a night somewhere, and take the slower (if shorter) route across the Jura which is always a nice option.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Whitters, I am sitting here whiling away a happy hour with my road atlas of France and viamichelin.com looking at alternative routes home. My base comparison is straight from Geneva to Calais on the motorway all the way (which viamichelin says will take 7hours 15 minutes, with no stops. If you did that in 6.5 hours there's no possible way you stuck to the speed limits. It's 820 kms so at 6.5 hours you are doing an AVERAGE of just over 126 kph.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, "and have to make sure it doesn't creep over the 130 every now and then"
Do you have "cruise" fitted to your car? I use it all the time on motorways, even in the busy UK.
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billb, no, I don't have cruise control - so I have to ensure I stay within the limits by old fashioned means. My car is very basic.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Trust me guys you aint going anywhere soon based on the situations I know.
Me, I was due to fly out to China last night, flight cancelled and no transfer offered, only a full refund as the flight is cancelled not delayed. Only thing I can do is re-schedule for next Sunday, which will cost another £1600 on top of what I have already paid, going to clear it with the boss first.
A colleauge, Was stuck in Milan when it started last Thursday and just missed the flight. He managed to get to Calais for saturday am by all means of transport, his wife had booked him the only ticket available which was a bicycle travelling passenger. When he got to Calais they would not let him on as he did not have a bicycle. He then had to go into Calais with all the other suits to buy the cheapest bike he could find, carrefour now sold out of bikes, Seriously.
Another colleauge, Who was meant to be travelling to china with me, he has been stuck in Rome since Friday and has been sitting it out (there are worse places) Now being told next available flight will be next Monday and their are no places on buses or trains and no hire cars available. He has gone out today to buy a jalopy that just might get him to Calais, they want €1500 for something that is dropping to bits.
So based on my experience and others I know, you ain't going anywhere soon. 
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Kel, my parents are stuck in Rome too, and are interested in car-sharing if poss 
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pam w, I'm not sure the Jura route is actually much slower, and i find it much w more enjoyable than the autoroute.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ITV News:
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The volcano may have paused or finished erupting...
...met office predicts Scotland clear of ash by 6am |
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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welshskier, The Jura route is 20 minutes more for us than the autoroute from Annemasse, saves 17 Euro's on the tolls, quarter tank of petrol and is far more enjoyable and relaxing
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Well a colleague of mine managed to get out to Afghanistan on Saturday - god knows how!
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When he got to Calais they would not let him on as he did not have a bicycle. He then had to go into Calais with all the other suits to buy the cheapest bike he could find, carrefour now sold out of bikes, Seriously.
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You know it makes sense.
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cathy, I think thats called rendition
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Good news but we are now in dithering time, unsure what to do. I was going to drive out tonight as my next flight is not to Wednesday however if it is going to clear up, I would rather fly(and save some cash) decisions decisions
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Poster: A snowHead
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A close call indeed.
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European air navigation providers are recommending re-opening of airspace and the resumption of flights by 08:00UTC tomorrow [20 April].
The recommendation has been put forward during an operational teleconference involving air traffic control providers today, says air navigation services organisation CANSO.
"They have suggested there is enough information to begin resuming flights tomorrow," says a spokesman for CANSO.
CANSO states that the statement is only a recommendation, and that a final decision must be taken at government level.
Director general Graham Lake adds: "We should caution that it will take several days for operations to return to normal."
He adds that there is no clear indication as to the extent to which airspace will be re-opened.
UK air navigation service NATS states that meteorological advisories state that the Icelandic volcano Eyjafjallajoekull is "less active than previously", although UK airspace will remain shut at least until midnight on 20 April. |
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/04/19/340778/ash-cloud-live-atc-services-eye-20-april-for-re-opening-airspace.html
However, I note that the ash over the alps has been sat there for ages and doesn't look like shifting for a while.
I also imagine that, if operations do start again, planes will be subject to rigorous testing each time they land just to make sure that all is okay. So no more 40 minute turnarounds! And will they have enough boroscopes to go around - or will they have to borrow some?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 19-04-10 14:28; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dwarf Vader, having followed your plight for the last few days I'd make the decision to drive. At least you'll have the certainty that you're going.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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altis, Next NATS update is 1500, I don't suppose anything new will be announced then.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Tiger2, Yep I would agree but I don't want to spend an extra £200 just to gain one days skiing. I can wait a few hours before making my mind up
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Looking at the maps again I note that there is predicted to be no high-level ash over the UK from 01:00 BST tonight. This could mean that long-haul flights might start operating again - particularly from Scotland where there will be no low-level cover from 07:00 too.
This might help lizski - or rather her hubbie.
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Obviously not a snowhead:
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1346 Mike Gore paid 2,200 euros (£1,935; $2,950) to get a taxi from the French Alps to Birmingham in the UK. He writes:
There were eight of us - five adults and three young children. It was a tough decision to part with the extra cash, which cannot be recovered from insurance - but with deteriorating prospect of a flight home and the cost of prohibitive cost of hotels and food in France, we were just relieved to get home. |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8629051.stm
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Holding my breath, but have just seen on SKY that Midlands open by 12h00 tomorrow and South at 18h00, so far husband booked at 19h00, but dont know if backlog cleared first;
or if volcano will behave...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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so if the midlands is 1200 is that flying to GVA ok i.e. south or not ? Or is that just for east west flights?
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NATS update
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Statement on Icelandic volcanic eruption: Monday April 19, 1530
The volcanic eruption has reduced and the volcano is not currently emitting ash to altitudes that will affect the UK. Assuming there are no further significant ash emissions we are now looking at a continuously improving situation.
Based on the latest information from the Met Office, NATS advises that the restrictions currently in place across UK controlled airspace will remain in place until 0700 (local time) tomorrow, Tuesday.
From 0700 (local time) tomorrow, Tuesday, Scottish airspace will be open, and south to a line between Teesside and Blackpool. Mainland Scottish airports will be open.
This is a dynamic and changing situation and is therefore difficult to forecast beyond 0700 local; however, the latest Met Office advice is that the contaminated area will continue to move south with the possibility that restrictions to airspace above England and Wales, including the London area, may be lifted later tomorrow (Tuesday).
We will continue to monitor Met Office information and review our arrangements in line with that. We will advise further arrangements at approximately 2100 (local time), today.
It is now for airports and airlines to decide how best to utilise this opportunity. Passengers should contact their airlines to find out how this will affect their travel plans. |
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FAQ
