 Poster: A snowHead
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@NickyJ,
I'm not saying it's simple or easy, I'm saying for most it's possible but you have to be strong minded. It's you doing something for you for your health.
Another example is the change of mindset after the end of a long relationship/marriage.
People get comfortable in the relationship, even though they dabble with dieting/exercise some put on weight over the years and one day their partner no longer finds them attractive and leaves.
There are many fantastic examples (mostly women) who have transformed themselves from seriously overweight to very fit, attractive and healthy people.
What changed? They dieted and exercised for years before. It was their "I'm going to show that bar steward" change of mindset. Stuff it I'm not going to play this dieting / exercise lipservice anymore I'm going to show that !$%%&!$, no excuses no question this is going to get f'in done.
Why wait for the divorce, the health problems (or next health problem) - can I suggest changing your mindset now or would that be too un-PC?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@DB, oh I agree completely with you with respect to the low fat products - but you can follow the “low fat” advice without buying the products and still be disappointed by the outcome.
Lots of detail about the insulin levels in that book and how they are impacted by different things.
There was doing exactly what I was saying was part of the problem - trying to simplify how I presented it 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@DB, I wasn’t saying you were per se. Was more referring to the NHS / government advice, the bodies out there to profit from people like weight watchers etc. People buy into the “it should be simple” so think it doesn’t work for me.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@NickyJ,
Sounds similar the stuff I've been looking at.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=3225549&highlight=diet#3225549
Maybe we should all be testing our sugar levels not just the diabetics amongst us. It's just that I hate needles (goes back to me having a full body scan for around 8 hrs with a needle/drip in my arm while I was a chid after a suspected disease). If I have to use needles then so be it but do you know (or anyone else know) if there is an easier way of testing bloodsugar levels on a regular basis?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| DB wrote: |
@NickyJ,
Sounds similar the stuff I've been looking at.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=3225549&highlight=diet#3225549
Maybe we should all be testing our sugar levels not just the diabetics amongst us. It's just that I hate needles (goes back to me having a full body scan for around 8 hrs with a needle/drip in my arm while I was a chid after a suspected disease). If I have to use needles then so be it but do you know (or anyone else know) if there is an easier way of testing bloodsugar levels on a regular basis? |
Could well be - it was a video so I didn't watch it (sorry, my personal preference for acquiring information is reading it, I will make some time later to watch it, but if you know of a transcript for it that would be great  ).
However what I didn't QUITE get over is that people can be putting a lot of effort into doing what they have been told is the "right" thing but it isn't the right thing for them, and telling them, you need to put more effort in, would then feel like an insult.
More helpful is - maybe suggest reviewing what they are doing against the various (and often on the surface conflicting) advice and research out there, to try and understand what is going wrong in achieve their goals.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| NickyJ wrote: |
Another book I am part way through reading is Michael Moseley’s 8 week blood sugar diet (or something like that in the title). He is (at lest in part) blaming the last several decades advice of low fat eating as the root cause of a lot of continued weight gain and obesity trend. |
I can highly recommend this book (although I haven't read it!) and the website https://thebloodsugardiet.com/
I heard him give a talk in January to a group of doctors and I was really impressed. It was all the latest scientific research into obesity & weight loss, and basically he was saying everything we thought we knew about weight loss was untrue and patients were being given the wrong information. There was a lot about recent advances linking obesity with chronic inflammation and its effect on insulin resistance which is fascinating, and really good data on diabetes and the impact of weight loss.
The main things I remember - fast weight loss is better than slow, low carb is the way to go, and exercise is useless for losing weight! Obviously exercise has other benefits, but losing weight isn't one of them. The possibility of actually reversing Type 2 diabetes was a good motivator, and the results were impressive, although I can't remember the numbers.
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@JackSkier, have you read the research and studies????
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| Pending repair wrote: |
| NickyJ wrote: |
Another book I am part way through reading is Michael Moseley’s 8 week blood sugar diet (or something like that in the title). He is (at lest in part) blaming the last several decades advice of low fat eating as the root cause of a lot of continued weight gain and obesity trend. |
I can highly recommend this book (although I haven't read it!) and the website https://thebloodsugardiet.com/
I heard him give a talk in January to a group of doctors and I was really impressed. It was all the latest scientific research into obesity & weight loss, and basically he was saying everything we thought we knew about weight loss was untrue and patients were being given the wrong information. There was a lot about recent advances linking obesity with chronic inflammation and its effect on insulin resistance which is fascinating, and really good data on diabetes and the impact of weight loss.
The main things I remember - fast weight loss is better than slow, low carb is the way to go, and exercise is useless for losing weight! Obviously exercise has other benefits, but losing weight isn't one of them. The possibility of actually reversing Type 2 diabetes was a good motivator, and the results were impressive, although I can't remember the numbers. |
I've got two friends who have reversed type 2 diabetes this way. Seriously impressive!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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when I was skiing over Christmas and New Year my weight was a tad over 110kg (about 17 stone 4lbs), and my knees really felt it on the slopes, so I tried to lose a bit of weight before my next two trips (mid Jan and early Feb). I managed to lose a little, but not enough, by cutting our beer and carbs. I've kept it up since then and I'm now 100kg (15 stone 10lbs), but I've still got a ways to go.
I want to get down to 90 kilos (just over 14 stone) and I want to keep it there this time. So I see this as a long term solution, not a quick fix and not something that I can reverse as soon as I hit my target weight.
So my "diet" is basically to cut back on carbs, not leave them out completely, but cut out the fillers like pasta, rice, chips, bread, etc. I can still eat veggies, even potatoes in moderation, but nothing that is high carb. I've (mostly) stopped drinking ale, and drink a couple of glasses of wine now instead.
I eat meat or fish of an evening with veg, for breakfast its usually a cheese omelet, and for snacks it salted and roasted nuts / cheeses / sugar free jelly / low sugar chocolat etc.
I'm not sticking to this religiously, and I will have an icecream on the beach, or a beer to two at a BBQ, but I'm mostly sticking to it during the week.
In addition I'm going out walking at the weekend, for a three or four hour hike across the hills, and shooting out along the hills or cliffs on my mountain bike a couple of evenings a week.
I see the walking and cycling as fun rather than as a way of losing weight, but it does burn up any carbs that have accumulated during the week, and it gets me back into fat burning mode.
On the whole, I think exercise is a motivator that keeps you on track, and its a little reward during the week for losing a few lbs as its easier to walk / cycle with less weight, and it puts a smile on my face 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
snacks it salted and roasted nuts
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about the most fattening things you can eat - I absolutely love them, but don't kid yourself they're a good snack for losing weight!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@pam w,
I agree with you on the exercise side of things, if you do enough exercise (time and intensity) you can get away with eating more.
The way I see it nuts are high in fat and cals but it's high sugar spikes that cause the body to store fat not eating healthy fat.
https://nuts.com/healthy-eating/nuts-for-weight-loss
I eat a lot of nuts, the fat is digested slower and it means I'm in the "unhungry" state for a lot longer. No sugar spike and less chance of me searching for a snack between meals.
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There's a good bit of protein in nuts too, so good for muscle recovery if you're doing exercise.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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eating more calories than you expend (whatever those calories are from) makes you gain weight. And vice versa. A handful of roasted salted cashew nuts (amongst my favourite snacks but one I have perhaps once a month) is chock full of calories. I'm amazed how many people can be convinced that by cutting some particular food group out of their diet (the current fave is carbs) they'll get thin. The large sums of money made, year in and year out, by the people who sell the latest fashionable diet books attest to the lengths to which people will go to be persuaded that it'll be OK to eat lots of calorie-rich Food A as long as they don't eat any calorie-rich Food B. And the increasing sales of such books suggests that generally, people don't get where they want to go and are only too happy to shell out for the words of the next guru.
I eat quite a lot of fat and quite a lot of complex carbohydrate (and obviously fruit and veg) and am a believer in the old-fashioned "balanced diet". For years I've bought semi-skimmed milk but now I buy whole milk because it makes much nicer kefir. I have a fair idea of how many calories are in what, but I don't count calories - really CBA - and don't exclude anything. I have rarely "dieted". At times when my weight drifts up a bit I get a grip and start eating a bit less and moving a bit more. It's worked for over half a century (my weight now is much the same as it was when I was 17 and before I had three kids). I did the 5/7 diet at one point a few years ago - that worked well to shift the half stone which had crept on. It has the great merit of getting you used to the idea that feeling a bit hungry isn't the end of the world.
It's not rocket science. Sugar, and sugar-substitutes, and the psychological addiction to all that stuff, have a lot to answer for. Feeling a bit sorry for yourself? Eat cake. It's the message you see everywhere. 
But people convincing themselves that their level of exercise makes no difference? They're REALLY kidding themselves. e
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Poster: A snowHead
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@pam w, who said I was eating more calories than I expend? I said I eat nuts as a snack.
Besides, what really makes you gain weight is not eating excess fat, but eating excess carbs.
If you went on a carb restrictive diet, eating 5,000 calories of fat a day, I guarantee you would lose weight.
The reason is pure biology.
If you eat excess carbs, your body will store them for instant energy release, if you have too many carbs to store in muscles and liver, then your body will store them as fat. Insulin is the key hormone that controls this storage mechanism. Insulin is released when you eat carbs.
If you don't eat carbs, then you wont produce insulin, then two things happen:
1) your body then starts to use its stored carbs for energy. This will usually take approx 3 days of normal activity, during this period you will lose a lot of weight as carbs are stored with a lot of water. I lost 4kgs like this.
2) once your carb stores are used up, your body will move into fat burning mode, this is called ketosis. It means that your body will start burning stored fats. This is why your body stored them in the first place, for when food was scarce. I have lost 6kgs like this.
Obviously you don't want to starve, so you need to eat anything that is non-carb, but specifically fats. A high proportion of fats.
Fats are good. Eat fats.
Obviously I'm not following this religiously. I do eat carbs now and then, but my exercising burns them off quite quickly (going for a 4 hour hike over the hills is very energetic), so my weight loss is not as dramatic as those following the atkins diet or the cambridge diet (which is low carb & low calorie).
There are other ways of losing weight, but cutting down on my carbs is working for me, and eating a diet higher in protein and fats means I feel fuller for longer.
I fit into my old clothes and I'm healthier, and I don't feel hungry, or desperate for a snack or a beer
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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BTW, I'm not saying that insulin is bad for you, its not, its part of the bodies healthy mechanism for storing energy for when you need it. Its just that I've stored enough and need to burn it off now
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm sorry but the amount of crap being said around here is ridiculous. Weight loss is caused by a deficit calories in vs calories expended, it's as simple as that. The macro-nutrient profile of these calories will not affect the rate of fat loss. The macro-nutrient profile will affect health/ energy/ motivation and also muscle wastage (a higher protein diet will preserve muscle, although some loss is inevitable).
Please do some research before listening to everything you hear on here. You will not lose weight eating 5000 calories of fats. You will also not lose weight eating "healthier" if you continue to eat too much.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| JackSkier wrote: |
I'm sorry but the amount of crap being said around here is ridiculous. Weight loss is caused by a deficit calories in vs calories expended, it's as simple as that. The macro-nutrient profile of these calories will not affect the rate of fat loss. The macro-nutrient profile will affect health/ energy/ motivation and also muscle wastage (a higher protein diet will preserve muscle, although some loss is inevitable).
Please do some research before listening to everything you hear on here. You will not lose weight eating 5000 calories of fats. |
oops, sorry did I knock you off your perch or something?
Please re-read my post. Point 1 is where she would lose weight.
Eating a lot of fat and protein means you feel fuller for longer, so yes there is a calorie deficit
Anyway, I'm off to eat a cow and 5 sheep, ....I might even cook them first.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
this is called ketosis
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 I lived for 40 years with a type 1 diabetic. I know a bit about insulin - and ketosis. Ketosis is pathological for a diabetic - I had to arrange hospital admission for my ketosed diabetic husband in a power cut in Nairobi when I had no phone. It's not something that properly healthy bodies do.....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Point 1 is where she would lose weight.
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"She" doesn't need to lose weight, thanks. I'm fine with my balanced diet. My BMI is 22.1. What's yours?
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@Sack the Juggler
Fats have 9 calories/ gram. Protein and carbs have 4 calories/ gram. So no you will not feel "fuller" eating more fat.
If you have any scientific studies supporting what you say then feel free to post them. I think you will struggle.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 14-05-18 17:14; edited 1 time in total
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@Sack the Juggler, Totally agree as a starting point. Your post was one I tried to write on about page 2 but it disappeared while writing and I gave up in a huff.
It gets more complicated around how how the body treats different sugars, e.g. sucrose vs glucose vs fructose and the relative amounts of these sugars that your body breaks down foodstuffs into. Then there's stuff around oils that retard access to stored fat and even the time you eat makes a big difference as your body is far less likely to park carbs as stored fat when it has just woken up.
Anyway, I can't remember all the science anymore but it all boils down to the fact that pasta for tea is the food of the devil.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
less fat but higher muscle mass
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I have high muscle mass too - or so my scales tell me - so I'm heavier than many women the same size as me. But BMI is a reasonable guide and there's a wide range of "healthy" BMIs on the NHS chart. But if people who have been trying and failing to lose weight for ages want to try yet again with the latest "low carb" diet and reckon they can get thin whilst eating their body weight in sausages and steak with no ill effects - good luck to them. I feel that all these extreme fad diets are unnecessary and there's plenty of good medical support for the traditional "balanced diet" (which, if you want to lose weight, should preferably be low in sugar and avoid sugar substitutes and pointless "slimming" products). To the undesirable side effects of ketosis (if my brother in law on the Atkins diet is any guide) you can add copious and unpleasant flatulence!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
ketosis another side effect is bad breath
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So people hoping to become babe-magnets might do better to stay a bit chubby rather than get thin by being ketosed.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Sack the Juggler wrote: |
If you went on a carb restrictive diet, eating 5,000 calories of fat a day, I guarantee you would lose weight.
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Really? Sounds neither healthy nor balanced to me. I guarantee I would be a stone heavier after a week of eating 5000 calories of fat each day, not to mention feeling a little sick! Eating less and 'normally' is the best long term solution, I think.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| DB wrote: |
Some will always play the victim card and get all upset, some might get what I'm saying and change their mindset to better their lives. Should we only have one view for fear of upsetting someone?
Futhermore I think playing up to what I see as excuses only supports their belief in that they can't for some reson get fit/slim and supports their current overweight, unfit unhappy self. If they don't believe they can make a change and you support that it will be a self fulfilling prophecy. You might be PC but IMHO you are only supporting their failure. You don't break hard addictions with kid gloves |
I don't think we should only have one view and you are entitled to yours however.
a) Evidence for most behaviours is that positive feedback and support is beneficial negative feedback is detrimental .
b) I don't see anyone saying they can't make a change on the contrary I have generally been reading about people who have made changes and it's worked.
c)If you cannot acknowledge that for some people losing weight is harder than for others and it is not just down to psychology it is you who are being blind to evidence.
d) You talk about shocks that work elsewhere and cite failing marriage . In fact far more people put on weight after divorce than lose it.
e)Constantly referencing sheep and losing mentality will not put anyone in a positive frame for losing weight.
I
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Poster: A snowHead
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@T Bar, good post.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| @T Bar, good post. |
Agreed
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| T Bar wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
Some will always play the victim card and get all upset, some might get what I'm saying and change their mindset to better their lives. Should we only have one view for fear of upsetting someone?
Futhermore I think playing up to what I see as excuses only supports their belief in that they can't for some reson get fit/slim and supports their current overweight, unfit unhappy self. If they don't believe they can make a change and you support that it will be a self fulfilling prophecy. You might be PC but IMHO you are only supporting their failure. You don't break hard addictions with kid gloves |
I don't think we should only have one view and you are entitled to yours however.
a) Evidence for most behaviours is that positive feedback and support is beneficial negative feedback is detrimental .
b) I don't see anyone saying they can't make a change on the contrary I have generally been reading about people who have made changes and it's worked.
c)If you cannot acknowledge that for some people losing weight is harder than for others and it is not just down to psychology it is you who are being blind to evidence.
d) You talk about shocks that work elsewhere and cite failing marriage . In fact far more people put on weight after divorce than lose it.
e)Constantly referencing sheep and losing mentality will not put anyone in a positive frame for losing weight.
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a) Not giving truthful feedback I see as patronising. I believe my feedback to be truthfull and honest without being insulting, a significant number of others here agree with me. I even said well done to the OP for dropping the 7 kg after she had taken a swipe at me.
b) At the start of the thread whatever anyone came up with the OP came back with a negative excuse as to why she couldn't make a change. The OP was being negative not those of us who were trying to help her with the truth about weightloss/fitness.
c) I suggest before you start calling someone blind that you go back and read my posts. I said it is harder for some than others but with the right mindset and determination over 99% of the population could avoid having to suffer living in an overweight and out of shape body.
d) Life isn't fair we all go through ups and downs, we are all disadvantaged and advantaged in some ways to others. Some people after a divorce don't wallow in the negatives/disadvantages they pick themselves up and do more than just look for self pity. Self pity is a worthless emotion it doesn't do any good for anyone but it's what I've seen a lot of overweight people feed off. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/self-pity
e) It motivates people not to be sheep, when 2/3's of the population are overweight I don't see this as a bad thing.
You're a doctor aren't you?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@DB, I'm afraid that being truthful and honest is not a passport to good motivational skills.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| @DB, I'm afraid that being truthful and honest is not a passport to good motivational skills. |
So we should have just agreed with the OP that there was nothing she could do and she had tried her best and us slim people were in fact superior in that there was something magical about why we are slim? You really think she would have done something and lost the 7kg? Do you honestly think that's how personal trainers work to motivate people to lose weight/get fit?
She says she lost the the 7 kg in spite of me, I'd say she lost it to spite me.
She's done great in getting out of the obese zone down to overweight, looking forward to seeing her build on that. It's conceivable that the OP and I will one day meet ( we have common friends ). If by which point I'm overweight I will meet her wearing a sheep costume - but not while Scarpa is around, that would be too risky.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 16-05-18 0:04; edited 2 times in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Well bringing it back to snow sports, my snowboard jackets have gone from "Medium" through "Small" to the current "Extra Small".
My weight and BMI have remained constant (and right where they should be) since I grew up.
Fat people tend to have fat dogs, and pet obesity is really simple, as the RSPCA have it:
"Obesity can affect all types of pet, and the main cause is from eating too much or not exercising enough, although some diseases
can cause obesity. To help prevent obesity in your pet ensure they maintain a healthy diet and receive plenty of exercise.
If you're concerned about your pets weight contact your local vet. "
Even they are being rather gentle with their phraseology: the cause of fat pets is their owners.
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https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/general/obesity
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@DB, SORRY MATE, you're delusional. I don't lose weight to spite anyone, particularly someone I haven't met .What I do, I do for myself, and no-one else. I really couldn't give a stuff what you think.
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@Hells Bells,
😀
I‘d believe you if you didn‘t keep putting up snipe posts about me being rude and patronising.
At least the fighter is now coming out of you instead of all this I‘m so hopeless crap.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In my family my mother's side were all pretty big - her mother and her aunts were notably large ladies, with ample bosoms. My mother tended to put on weight too - it was a constant fight. My father's side were slimmer (not that I knew many of them). I suspect there's a big genetic component in propensity to put on weight and I'm genetically fortunate in that regard - seemingly my dad's genes in that and some other ways.
I have a friend with big hips and thighs - exactly like her mum. Presumably the way our bodies metabolise food is also to an extent genetic - as with so much else.
I do think I've been sensible. When I have a binge-ish few months and put on weight I try to get rid of it before it becomes a mountain to climb. And I enjoy exercise so getting out and moving around is not a hardship. And my diet is good. After having the kids and during pregnancy I was assiduous in appropriate diet and exercise and found breastfeeding big babies (my smallest was 8.5 pounds having been induced a week early) sucked huge amounts of calories out of me. So I do (usually) the right things, but I have no doubt that I am also genetically fortunate, which has made it much easier than it is for some people, including some of my friends, to keep weight in the right zone. It's a virtuous circle if you make a bit of an effort and see results. It's a vicious circle if you make a lot of effort and see discouragingly few results - very de-motivating.
My genes will no doubt prove problematic in other ways. No alzheimer's on either side of my family but some of them might well have developed it, had they not died relatively young of heart disease! I have my dad's varicose veins and am now on statins for high cholesterol (with no ill effects, thankfully).
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| DB wrote: |
@Hells Bells,
😀
I‘d believe you if you didn‘t keep putting up snipe posts about me being rude and patronising.
At least the fighter is now coming out of you instead of all this I‘m so hopeless crap. |
TBH, whilst I can see what you are trying to say, it does come across as rude and patronising.
I think it's awesome that you are able to 'just be strong minded' and get fit and eat healthily and not be a 'sheep'. However, other people have different issues and many are nothing to do with sheeplike behaviour. Telling someone with issues of a mental kind that affect how they live/eat/think is akin to telling someone with a broken leg "oh, come on, just get up and walk it off"
Different people have different issues. An addiction to food or a food group is probably one of the most difficult to break.
You can quite smoking
You can quit drinking
You can quit drugs
You Cannot quit eating
Yes yes, I know that you think that its just a matter of strong will to stop eating too much or stop eating certain food groups but that is incredibly simplistic
The way you write is not encouraging in anyway. It reads as blinkered and harsh. A total lack of empathy. Not everyone has the ability to be totally focused, strong willed, strong minded like you.
Many people do have issues that make concentrating on exercise or food a huge challenge. A lot of those people still succeed, albeit, quite often slowly.
However, being told that they are weak willed, sheep like, lacking in mental strength is not conducive to success! I rather suspect that @Hells Bells has succeeded despite your comments rather than because of them.
I've certainly found reading them quite depressing and I have been slowly managing what I'm eating and doing. Reading that attitude really makes me want to sit on the sofa with bowl of sweet food rather than go out and do anything because I'm obviously a sheep and not worthy of any kindness or help and shouldn't offend the world by leaving the apartment!! (Ok, a slight exaggeration, but this is how some people will feel when you say things the way you do. It has that effect on me in a slightly lesser way)
There are other ways to encourage people that are far more successful. However, having read some of your previous responses, I'd guess you either were or should have been a Sergeant Major and you cannot see how the harsh words are not encouraging to those of us with a less simplistic attitude than you?
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FAQ
