 Poster: A snowHead
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Jonny Jones, maps? Ability to read terrain which you've developed in N America? Basic avy courses? Common sense?
I agree more Euro resorts could do more to offer semi-controlled freeride zones but de facto these exist in a lot of places without the name. However it is a different game and I can understand your reluctance to take your kids somewhere you're not 100% sure of.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Don't inbounds avalanches take place in North America? I'm sure I've read of some, although thankfully not too many. Nowhere is 100% safe, there's always a risk factor which needs consideration.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
clarky999, how does a once-a-year skier like me learn to 'deal with avalanche risks'? And how does a person unfamiliar with a resort discover which tempting-looking powder field leads inexorably to a precipice? And how does someone gain sufficient confidence in your judgement on these matters that they can lead their wife and three kids into a place that might kill them?
That's the problem with European skiing. The interesting stuff is locked away for the people with local knowledge or the people who want (and can afford) to ski with a guide. I'd prefer to spend my cash on flights than a week of guiding: I want to ski with my family. If I couldn't afford the flights, I'd ski once every 2-3 years in North America rather than every year on Europe's piste motorways.
I'll grant that some European resorts are starting to open up some more interesting terrain in a backlash against endless groomers - Zermatt's yellow runs and St Anton's itineraries are good examples. But it's far, far too limited to interest me.
If a European resort wants to break rank and open up an entire mountain or two in the North American fashion, I'll change my mind in an instant. Sadly, they're too stuck in their ways. |
I completely understand what you're saying (especially with the kids), and I certainly wouldn't object to more avi-controlled ungroomed terrain here (other than it'd all be skied out instantly anyway), I was just commenting on the 'NA is better for those who like the gnarlier side of skiing, Europe is only good for pistes' thing.
That said, with avi courses, a map and a guidebook, and a day or two with a guide to familiarise you, I think you'd be surprised how much relatively safe offpiste you can find in the average euro resort.
Not trying to talk you into it though, seems you've found what works for you, so why change it?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Don't inbounds avalanches take place in North America? I'm sure I've read of some, although thankfully not too many. Nowhere is 100% safe, there's always a risk factor which needs consideration. |
They do. One of the runs in Jackson Hole is named after a ski patroller who was tragically killed in one a few years back. Nowhere is safe, but, generally, the lowest risk option is to respect the views of someone who's learned his craft, has intimate local knowledge of the mountain and has a wealth of available data about the precise nature of the snowpack. Any assessment of risk that I carry out is certain to be inferior.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| Any assessment of risk that I carry out is certain to be inferior. |
Yes, ditto for me, and it's disheartening to see that even mountain guides get that assessment wrong from time to time. However, should mean that it's the best policy to wilfully ignore any kind of understanding of how snow interacts with terrain to form risky situations? If only to help you realise how little you actually know? Lots of easy to access resources will provide an introduction to snowpack safety.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Don't inbounds avalanches take place in North America? I'm sure I've read of some, although thankfully not too many. Nowhere is 100% safe, there's always a risk factor which needs consideration. |
Yep - but thankfully not often. I've triggered the odd pocket but consequences have thankfully been more like sluff (and probably uncontrolled for that very reason). Patrollers will be very, very visible when there's good reason to be extra careful though and I've seen odd days when they recommend beeping inbounds and won't let you on a lift without a partner. Google Donner Ski Ranch for a recent example of stuff goes horribly wrong however.
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Jonny Jones, Baqueira Beret in the spanish pyrenees follows the in-bounds / out-of-bounds model - or at least it used to. Many years ago they had a partnership arrangement with Intrawest
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A lot of N American enthusiasts are being unfairly and inaccurately dismissive of Europe. Europe is having its second epic snow year in a row whilke many places in US are having 2nd disappointing snow year in row (whistler is of course exception due to proximity to ocean; if ireland had mountains it would be the best skiing place ever). If you learn a bit about avalanches and off-piste safety there are many places in Europe eg Flaine / grand massif where you can very well survey the off-piste terrain and know what powder you can safely take advantage of (just learn where holes are); this is major advantage of going back to same resort time and again. The nature of somewhere like Val dIsere/ tignes is the off-piste seems all backcountry but what's ironic is how some go on about wildness of NA "made safe" off-piste versus tameness in Europe, but reality is there is no limit in gnarliness scale you can go to in Europe without having your skipass confiscated, but of course with increasing gnarliness there is increasing risk, and you may take that risk at your own responsibility. I am not putting NA down, but I wonder how much ADVANCED experience in Europe some of thewe vocal posters have
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Makes me reminisce - back in 1997 , or maybe 2000 we were in La Grave and one of the guys in our group was Peter, a Canadian who was the ski director for Whistler, we did quite a few road trips and this guy just could not believe the scale of everything.
On our last day we went up via Vaujany to Alpe D'Huez and I seem to recall that every other word was "awesome", we then dropped him off in Grenoble on our way back.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to visit Whistler, in fact another good friend lives in Pemberton, but it does stick in my memory how Pete raved about everything.
And, as ever to back up what I've typed this is the "blog" from way back in those days before the word "blog" was in our vocabulary 
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gavin.baylis/lagraveframe.htm and click on Saturday
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I can't really understand the discussion here. That's like, say, asking yourself why everyone doesn't drive the same car. Different people want different things. Hell, I'm only one person and I can absolutely enjoy Zermatt and Whistler. All in the same freakin season. I know that's probably scary, but really ya need to get out more.
Lots of Brits love Whistler, and it seems to me to be pretty obvious why that is. Just not having rude people around is just a huge thing for many of us, and then there's the quantify of snow and the layout of the resorts with none of this "off-piste" nonsense. I could do without the crowds and the speed cops, but those are a consequence of the success of the place. If you can't find the "night life" there then the English vomit and shouty people around the bus loop at midnight should give you a clue as to where it is. Those people infest any "destination" resort; you need to go somewhere like Revvy to get away from them.
I spend a fair bit of time in Whistler, and it's certainly overrated by some. The snow's the wettest you'll find in BC outside Vancouver itself, and there are significantly better places to ride if you are in the least able to look after yourself. But then the same's true of France or anywhere else. The Three Valleys is great for what it is, but if you're grown up then there are lots of better places you can find with a little initiative. Not bigger, but what's that got to do with anything? Ride somewhere them move somewhere else and ride that.
What was the question again? Can't remember - ride all sorts of different places, then go back to the ones you like. I hope they're not the same as the ones I like, as I don't want you tracking out my lines.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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philwig, Can't disagree with any of that. Everywhere has merits and flaws and the more skiing or riding you do the more you can get out of places that others find reasons to bitch about. For a Northern hemisphere dweller your education isn't complete until you've tried both sides of the pond. Even French extremo gods could I expect find gnarly stuff with a maritime snowpack to enjoy in AK, equally there's a reason US and Canadian skiers gravitate to Chamonix, La Grave, St Anton, Zermatt etc. I've met people off the Haute Route in May who claim it's been the trip of their life.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| philwig wrote: |
| Different people want different things. Hell, I'm only one person and I can absolutely enjoy Zermatt and Whistler. |
Completely agree. I probably stirred things up a little when I responded to the remarks that seemed to imply that Whistler is cripplingly expensive (true) and therefore not a particularly smart place to ski (false) - but I was at great pains to always caveat my comments with words like 'for me' or 'for the kind of skiing I love'.
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Weathercam, blimey - a picture of Pelle with hair!
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You know it makes sense.
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Weathercam,
Would "Peter" be Peter Smart? - If so, he runs the Extremely Canadian programme at Whistler (which also runs camps outside of Canada, including La Grave). He is an amazing skier, and certainly isn'tignorant of what European skiing has to offer.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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well that brought a few moans out the wood works.... I agree a little expensive but like the transit post which made me laugh if your after a cheap holiday in a small chalet and listen to some euro house stay in europe..... Apres was brilliant started at 4pm every day and didnt make it home until well into the early hours every night.... Irish bar was great with live band buffalo bills another great venue. Great restaurants and steak houses..... i would rather do a week out there than two ski trips in europe per season.... Even though i have just this min booked a broom cupboard in Tignes for April at £1100 for a week in tignes 1850 miles from anywhere.... I went val before xmas and i think that is more expensive.... at the end of the day each to there own but whistler has my vote
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