 Poster: A snowHead
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Can some TOs activate/deactivate lift passes online for their customers? If so, it sounds like someone had got access to the username and password to be able to do this themselves. The fact that SkiPass was asking you to have an old lift pass for him to activate, suggests this to me. No doubt he is pocketing any money he receives and it is not going to any lift companies or TOs. In one of his posts he actually said it was a short term deal only, obviously realising that the 'loophole' would soon be closed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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TOs must get big discounts from lift companies. Ski Power make you pay £20 extra per person if you do not purchase your ski pass from them. From their Terms and Conditions:
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| The Group Leader agrees and contracts that all members of the party will pre-purchase (a minimum of 1 week before departure from the United Kingdom or any other departure point, or the same day as booking if booking is within 1 week of departure from the UK or any other departure point) their lift passes through Ski Power Ltd. The Group Leader acknowledges that the price of the holiday includes a £20 discount per person in this respect. The Group Leader is liable to pay £20 per person named in the booking should any member of the group not pre-purchase a full lift pass for the full duration of their stay. All such lift passes must be pre-purchased through Ski Power Ltd and not any other supplier of lift passes. |
I didn't realise that it was that much!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Boardban wrote: |
The EU system is far superior, I like to know I don't have to shop around. |
The main reason you can't shop around is because you're discriminated against as a furrener e.g. CMB quite happy to offer deep discount daypasses on the Swiss equivalent of Groupon because they're betting they'll pull in more casual semi-local revenues that way (& the real hardcore will already have their season passes). Would never do the same in the UK I'd wager because of the risk in harming captive revenues from those who are already committed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Masque, No, the discounts are too heavy.
€30 for a €44 day pass.....
so 6 day pass is €180 for €218 pass. Too much off.
Also TO's purchase passes. They do not type in an ident of every card and then magically activate them and cancel them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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flangesax, that's a lot of discount. I figured he was purchasing/ordering them via a TO account (illegally) and just passing them on with no profit to get back at the TO for sacking him. Looking forward to the outcome.
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flangesax, But if cost is on someone else's account and revenue on his own he can price at whatever price he likes (& offer generous pay me after terms). Did you get to the bottom with your lift co whether your top up was genuine and whose account had made the top-up?
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Actually, I think that the discounts may be that high. A couple of years back, with a party of 30 of us, with Esprit, we refused to buy the passes through them (they were charging the same price as the lift office, but then applying a rip-off exchange rate and handling charge for credit cards, so it was cheaper just to pop into the lift office and buy them ourselves). The rep then quietly summoned me over and offered a 20% discount to buy through them - and I am sure that they kept some for themselves above that. Mind you, she did then apply the rip-off exchange rate and credit card handling fee.....
How this guy is able to activate and deactivate cards from multiple resorts beats me though - I have never seen a tour operator do that - they usually seem to pick them up from the lift office as well.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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and that in some way may be how the prices are so cheap, as there are no costs for a new card or RFID chip, albeit a small amount there is going to be markup all along the way, chip company, card production, etc etc. Maybe not much but it does all add up. I am not saying it's legal but the without further substantive evidence otherwise it is all anecdotal as to the status of the offer.
But the usual usual rules apply, sounds to good, then it probably is and caveat empor....
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My assumption was all the resorts use the Skidata package, to which Skidata must have some kind of online update/maintenance VPN access to their systems. He has access to the private network and passwords etc. (as a hacker or disgruntled/ex employee), and is able to log-in to the resorts' system and activate any pass for which he is supplied a reference number. The pass would work fine, and I doubt most resorts have very sophisticated procedures to cross-check active cards against revenue received. So yes, fraud, probably, and I'm sure the authorities would take a very dim view of anyone unlucky enough to be caught using one of his passes.
I've never heard of TO's getting more than 20% discounts, other than the rumour that Club Med in Avoriaz don't pay for their passes in return for not pulling out of the resort (it's very prestigious in the french market for a resort to have a Club Med, and all the others are in posher resorts than Avoriaz).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
I'm sure the authorities would take a very dim view of anyone unlucky enough to be caught using one of his passes.
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Exactly why I'd pay the extra and buy a totally legit one in the ticket office. At least I know that what is enabled electronically in the computer system matches with what is printed on the ticket. And have a paper receipt as further evidence in case of any problems.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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absolutely, whilst I would love to save 25-30% of lift ticket prices, I wouldn't want to get hauled off the mountain the locals for having a dodgy pass. But maybe just maybe skipass will be back to prove use wrong............ or maybe not.....
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(it's very prestigious in the french market for a resort to have a Club Med, and all the others are in posher resorts than Avoriaz).
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First time I've heard 2Alpes described as 'posh'. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Lizzard Ah, good point, I should have said "most of the others"  . From your unique perspective, could you see there being any truth to the rumour? I've heard it from a few sources over the years.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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shep, can't see it - the one here doesn't look particularly upmarket and nor do its guests.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Boardban, You don't have to shop around. If you don't want the hassle you just rock up and pay face price.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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First time I've heard 2Alpes described as 'posh'
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That was going to be my comment too!
I had an ace holidaty in Avoiraz with club med. So. Much. Food.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Stolen credit cards
most resorts operate an online system where you enter the pass number and pay
take cash from one guy and buy a pass with stolen card and pocket the cash
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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czl, ooh nasty. Sounds very plausible though 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
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(it's very prestigious in the french market for a resort to have a Club Med, and all the others are in posher resorts than Avoriaz).
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First time I've heard 2Alpes described as 'posh'. |
or La Plagne (which must be doubly posh as it has 2 club meds!!)
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Dear Mr. Turner,
thank you very much for your interesting comments. We had a short check for this data carrier number.
Please be aware that a ski ticket can be purchased via different sales channels:
- Via manual POS in the ski resort; this was the case for this keycard in the years 2011 and 2012 several times
- Via a webshop: you can purchase a skipass over the internet, paying via credit card, paypal, or various other payment types. In this case the new skipass is activated at the card at the first entry through a reader device at a lift. Such a webshop ticket booking was done yesterday noon for this keycard, and in the afternoon you made your “ride”
For us, so far there seems nothing to be illegal.
In a further step we could check e.g. if the price for the yesterday webshop booking was really transferred or not.
All in all, our ticket systems have a bunch of technical parameters and technology that ensure a maximum of security. We are not aware of any database hacking or ticket copying in the past (which would have been an illegal action).
Nevertheless, we are very glad about people that keep us informed about any cases like this with maybe unclear actions behind.
Thank you very much !
If you should have any additional comments, or I should have understood something wrong, please reply.
Best regards,
Josef Stangassinger
———————————————————————
Business Support Manager Mountains / PA
SKIDATA AG
Untersbergstrasse 40
A-5083 Grödig/Salzburg
[e] josef.stangassinger@skidata.com
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oooooooooooo......l
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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So what's the catch?
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could still be a loss leader for a scammer, but as he is saying he doesnt take payment till after you have used the pass this seems less likely. Possibly some sort of data/info harvesting but again, difficult to see the upside for skipass....
Maybe, just maybe he is a guy who discovered an angle and is genuine?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I would suggest Mr Skipass is following the CZL approach ... Make sense to me!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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still could be stolen credit card or hacked paypal account. Thought lift cos generally liked you to create an account to top up online so they can spam you whenever 2 cm of new snow has fallen or Helmut and the Hotrods are doing a special gig.
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czl's suggestion about stolen credit card information (edit: or fatbob's suggestion of hacked paypal account) seems plausible, and is consistent with the way flangesax's skipass was paid for online....
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You know it makes sense.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| czl's suggestion about stolen credit card information (edit: or fatbob's suggestion of hacked paypal account) seems plausible, and is consistent with the way flangesax's skipass was paid for online.... |
This ^ seems the most plausible.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If I were to join in with this I would definitely use a disposable credit card and put a fire/Chinese Wall between my and Mr Skipass. It doesn't smell right.
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Poster: A snowHead
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agreed its a distinct option, but it would get found out pretty quickly i think so limited in terms of exposure and revenue.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I didnt see the other thread, what was the proposed method to pay? I guess he was offering a discounted pass but paying full price to purchase making a loss but because of stolen card(s) doesnt matter anyway
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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the proposal was you ask for a type of pass for a number of days and pay after each days skiing via paypal or your pass wouldnt be activated for the next day...... or something like that. I figure they would need a string of credit cards and paypal accounts to keep it going for more than a couple of days.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
The main reason you can't shop around is because you're discriminated against as a furrener e.g. CMB quite happy to offer deep discount daypasses on the Swiss equivalent of Groupon because they're betting they'll pull in more casual semi-local revenues that way (& the real hardcore will already have their season passes). Would never do the same in the UK I'd wager because of the risk in harming captive revenues from those who are already committed.
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True – me and a few friends and colleagues use these very frequently indeed, and they're normally 1/3 to 1/2 off. We ski most weekends, but don’t bother with season passes as we have lots of different resorts to choose from. So these offers convince us to pick one resort over all the competition.
Not all are limited to Swiss residents, the Grand Massif ones recently could be bought by anyone in any country.
(So far this season I’ve used 4 Verbier passes, 1 Grand Massif with 1 left, and just bought 3 Chamonix passes… Saved about 200CHF, which goes to the mountain beers!)
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FAQ
clever but I don't think it was a scam or con as the goods were delivered . . . but it is probably fraud and soon to be stopped. A 'disgruntled' employee with access to a TO's IT and account purchase system and probably no way for any money to go to him but the TO picks up the tab for passes issued in their name but not their clients . . . 
that makes sense 