 Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, where abouts in the turn does your smeary bit show?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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kitenski, Just a quick tip that really helped me (and the whole group) with carved turns. Point the inside knee towards where you want to go and saying "Grrrrrrr!!"*
No joke!!
Really get the outside ski on to it's edge (angulation) and opening up the inside knee will give you the space to do that (without creating an A frame). The Grrrr is for good pressure (but not too much, otherwise you'll push it off the edge). Try it, it worked really well for me/us, so it will definitely work for you.
BTW - i'm not qualified for anything but it was an amazing feeling once you're on the rails....high(ish) speed AND in control..wow!!
* Copyright: Wayne
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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gatecrasher, thanks, I can, have and did all those drills!! Still can't bl**dy carve to BASI L2 standards on a blue though!!
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kitenski, Bugg#r 
It all sounds very simple doesn't it but sooo frustrating when habits are ingrained and not necessarily bad habits just different habits learnt with different equipment, which I guess makes it even more frustrating. The thing is, how many people do you see actually carving on the mountain, I guess as a level 2 you would need to be able to demonstrate it, but what percentage of people in reality would you actually teach it to.
Might be fun to do with the right conditions but only a relatively small percentage of time is actually spent carving IMV.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gatecrasher, aren't edging skills, and the movements we should make to use them, as essential a tool as any other way of steering our skis? Isn't it a duty as ski teachers to introduce and develop these skills as part of a well rounded skier?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar, Yes definitely?
Not sure I was actually endorsing carving? Not quite with you.
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gatecrasher, sorry, I thought that you were saying that that as carved turns form such small percentage of the turns that we make it's not necessary to teach that skill to many skiers.
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| gatecrasher wrote: |
The thing is, how many people do you see actually carving on the mountain, I guess as a level 2 you would need to be able to demonstrate it, but what percentage of people in reality would you actually teach it to.
Might be fun to do with the right conditions but only a relatively small percentage of time is actually spent carving IMV. |
I don't carve very often but it's a really important tool to have in the bag (not least) because if you can only turn with some form of twisting, or rotation, of the skis then it really is going to limit your progression off-piste.
Carving is pretty fundamental skill, a good building block towards better skiing and it's fun!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just flex those ankles.
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rob@rar, Hmm! I think that's sort of what I was saying 
As I alluded to earlier in this thread I've got quite a few very good skier friends, some have level 2 they are getting on a little in years so never taken their levels any further, but as said are great all round skiers, although they don't carve their turns, well if they can I've never seen them use it, I would argue that they have a far better blend of edging skills than me, from my POV I learnt to lock my skis in on blues and gentle red sections relatively early in my skiing addiction and I don't mean railing with the flow, I didn't find it difficult as I had nothing else ingrained from the past, I really hadn't learnt how to steer my skis properly "off" their edges so there was poor management of steering, edging, pressure blend, which left me struggling a bit on steeper runs and trickier terrain, I had to learn/still learning to do this only by coming off the edges, so which is better to fully understand first as an instructor, turns where the edges are locked in, or a blend of edging/steering,pressure etc.etc.
I'm seeing both sides of this, great skiers that don't carve and good carvers that can't ski!?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Huckacliff duckabranch wrote: |
Not dogging Anyone who uses fridges but they ain't the place to practice stuff like that, ...
takes an age to get to the top, Everyone is in your way, by time you've got the feeling of what you're doing you're back at the bottom waiting again, ... |
Not true. They are great places to practice stuff like that, though you're right that it seems to take an age to get to the top, often everyone is in your way, and by the time you've got the feeling of what you're doing you're back at the bottom waiting again. Nevertheless, they are relatively on the doorstep for some of us, you can get to know when to go to avoid crowds and you just have to learn to focus quicker and better.
| gatecrasher wrote: |
| Was just wondering when the requirement to carve cleanly changed, I know a few older in years level 2s who could kick my ass over most of the mountain with other aspects of skiing but definitely don't carve cleanly? |
Somewhere between Grade III and Level 2, I think 
Also, I don't see the second group you mention
| gatecrasher wrote: |
| I'm seeing both sides of this, great skiers that don't carve and good carvers that can't ski!? |
I agree that some good skiers don't carve but don't agree that some good carvers can't ski. I see bad carvers who can't ski but never any good carvers who can't ski.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| gatecrasher wrote: |
I'm seeing both sides of this, great skiers that don't carve and good carvers that can't ski!? |
Not so sure thats true, a great skier cannot be a great skier unless able to carve, the fundamentals involved in carving are the same in any type of skiing, edge release, angulation, pressure management fore/aft ballance, all these are used either in bumps, crud, 3d snow, ice, steeps and the list goes on.
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You know it makes sense.
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gatecrasher, I've seen plenty young racers who don't have we'll developed rotational skills, in a sense they are unable to get off their edges. As I said above, we should develop well-rounded skiers who can use all skiing skills not just a subset of them. Which is why we should teach everyone to make turns by edging their skis, even if they will only use that skill to avoid slowing down too much on flat pistes as they ski from A to B.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rob@rar, I agree.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If you see at the very start of your video, the 1st frame shows A frame wedge entry, this is where it all starts wrong, not releasing the down hill ski edge at the start of transition and using that ski as a stabiliser in the new turn, if the down hill edge is released you have to angulate, it gives you the ability to create higher edge angles earlier in the turn(before the fall line)
I'm not an instructor and I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong but I've had ALOT of coaching and its the usual suspects that are always the problem,
YouTube Harald Harb, he explains it as it should be and shows drills to help out,
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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kitenski, Where you intending to use the front of the ski?
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Cynic, sorry, don't understand???
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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kitenski, Sorry I thought it was a question misread it as where am I using the edges?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| gatecrasher, I've seen plenty young racers who don't have we'll developed rotational skills, in a sense they are unable to get off their edges. |
Yes, but are they good carvers? I also see plenty of young racers who don't have well developed rotational skills, but the ones who are good carvers have reasonable rotational skills and the ones who have poor rotational skills are bad carvers!
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| slikedges wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| gatecrasher, I've seen plenty young racers who don't have we'll developed rotational skills, in a sense they are unable to get off their edges. |
Yes, but are they good carvers? I also see plenty of young racers who don't have well developed rotational skills, but the ones who are good carvers have reasonable rotational skills and the ones who have poor rotational skills are bad carvers! |
Not sure, quite possibly bad carvers as well! To me they just look a bit one-dimensional - good at one type of turn, but not adaptable enough significantly to change how they steer their turns.
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rob@rar, I find most carvers on a pair of 120 under foot in 3 feet of new snow don’t make pure carved turns, particularly in steep couloirs. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
good at one type of turn, but not adaptable enough significantly to change how they steer their turns.
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and young and confident enough not to give a damn!
when I do the "one turn to a standstill" exercise the smearing tends to come towards the end, as my skis are straight across the slope. I think. I need to do a lot of slow speed practice.
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slikedges, thing is, you have to decide..."what makes a good carver" a lot of people say on here it's leaving well defined tracks... Kids with poor rotational skills "could" leave such tracks...so good carver?
It's not difficult to lock in and ride the edges if that's predominantly what you've been taught...so good skier?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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gatecrasher, a good ski makes a good carver.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A very sharp knife also makes a good carver, though of a differing sort to that discussed above.
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar, yep, exactly that, can ski on edges, but can't do much else, one-dimensional, and usually not very solid carving with no versatility either, just their standard method of getting about.
Cynic, the right ski makes carving easier, like the right ski makes deep snow easier or makes heavy crud easier, but still depends largely on the skier. A great skier can carve piste on fats, slay powder on GS, handle heavy crud on a soft beginner ski. No, I'm not quite that skier but still hoping to get there.
gatecrasher, in my vernacular, leaving well-defined tracks is railing. Influencing turn radius while leaving well-defined tracks is carving. Good carving is doing this consistently and with versatility in increasingly challenging situations.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
and for balance here is me in the shorts, where I am using the edges!!
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Not an instructor but interested that in the second vid your A frame disappears when you transition onto the shallower slope. You also seem to come more into the driving seat - whereas in both the first and second vids you seem slightly on your heels.
Having had similar problems resulting from inappropriate gear I had the CEM/Alpine McCannix treatment and I wonder whether you have similar things going on. Having fixed the technique flaws caused by gear I now have technique flaws caused by bad technique but I guess that is the way things go.
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Poster: A snowHead
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gorilla, pretty sure it's technique, as I sorted out carving with a great lesson from Steve Angus, but reverted to type the next day.....
I think I've fixed my technical flaws with short turns (2nd video), but not with longs (1st video)
cheers,
Greg
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kitenski wrote: |
Spyderman, long time bad habits/lack of skill from being over 40 and never been taught to carve, if I'm honest with myself. I wish I'd had some mountain training and identified it earlier as I reckon it could have been sorted prior to the course.....
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Quite honestly that could have easily been picked up in a fridge, the faults are clear. I'm surprised it wasn't raised when you did your L1. Was the problem not identified to you by the trainer at the start of the 2 week L2 course? We had a guy in a similar situation and our trainer helped him no end to ensure he raised his game, no trainer wants to fail anyone if they can help it. Our trainer passed us all on the Thursday lunchtime, which left him the rest of the Thursday and the Friday to work exclusively with the guy to get his standard up to pass level, he passed on the Friday afternoon.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Curtains wrote: |
Huckacliff duckabranch, if you go onto youtube, BASI have a series of video's showing the level that would be expected and states what the assessment criteria is at each level.
http://www.youtube.com/user/OfficialBASI
just pick the area you wish to look at |
I have issues with the BASI videos in that all of the demonstrations of each level are done by BASI Trainers. What would be more useful would be here's the level, these skiers passed, these failed, using real course candidates. A BASI Trainer skiing a Parallel turn to L2 standard is still going to look like a Trainer doing it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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kitenski, I'm seeing similar things in both videos, you look to me to be rushing to pivot your skis through the fall line.
What are they looking for at L2 ? Are you expected to get the skis to carve above the fall line at all ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rjs, So cruel
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Spyderman, unfortunately it wasn't picked up at my L1, if it was I would have sorted before even booking onto my L2. Due to bad weather we didn't really get into longs until the Sunday of the course, plenty of ideas were tried, but I just couldn't crack it in time
I wish he'd had the opportunity to work exclusively with me on Thursday and Friday, but unfortunately not!
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| rjs wrote: |
| kitenski, What are they looking for at L2 ? Are you expected to get the skis to carve above the fall line at all ? |
for which turn, longs or shorts?
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kitenski, That's really bad luck, particularly with the weather. 2 weeks and £2K not to get a result is very frustrating.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| rjs wrote: |
| kitenski, What are they looking for at L2 ? Are you expected to get the skis to carve above the fall line at all ? |
for which turn, longs or shorts? |
I guess I'm asking about both.
There are plenty of things that you can play with at Castleford if you are going to ski there before your next trip away.
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Spyderman, tell me about it!! Just dug out my L1 report which doesn't mention anything specific
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FAQ
but I have seen a few little racers that are "great" little carvers but, if you asked them to do "slow" "controlled" steered turns with a pole plant, they may struggle or put them on tricky terrain where carving is not the best option again not all would show up as having the skills.
