spud, good article, "She should start where she finishes in the training runs.” True.
I wonder if she was allowed to race in this and relinquish her start place in the womens race if she would still be tempted, although she said she wouldn´t in that article.
I was chatting to my lads trainer last night, he thinks she would be about 4-5 secs behind the leading men, which is a massive difference in DH.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Yes a massive differencekooky, ...but the same as a lot of smaller nations Teams. I wonder how Dougie and TJ would do against her? Dougie was asking on FB what people thought about it.
The fact that she say's she would relinquish her training runs for the womens DH the following week, would make things seem fair to me. In fact...she would probably be at a disadvantage as conditions change.
I can't see a problem with it...regardless of result...it brings media attention to the sport. Also as has been mentioned elsewhere, Anika Sorenstam the Worlds leading women golfer at the time, played in a mens event to see how she would get on. So it's not something new in Sport.
I'm sure more racers will come out and have their two pennys worth...which keeps skiing in the medias radar leading up to the season...all good me thinks.
The results from last year's races at Lake Louise show different numbers of gates for the male and female events so the times won't be exactly comparable.
A better comparison might be results from National Championships races, for some of these the male and female events are run on the same course the same day. I picked 2010 as it was the last one that Chemmy did, she was about 2s behind Lindsay Vonn at Lake Louise that winter.
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spud wrote:
I'm sure more racers will come out and have their two pennys worth...which keeps skiing in the medias radar leading up to the season...all good me thinks.
Call me cynical but I think this is much more about Brand Lindsey than raising the profile of women's ski racing. Of course the two are instrinsically interlinked at present but it's a nice hook to get her plenty of airplay on US sports bulletins as the "and finally" story after a Tsunami of Football and Baseball stuff.
Have a read of this story...Sorenstam was very much the 'Vonn' of the Golf World at the time. I can see it being very similar in this instance too. Personally... I really don't think it's a sponser thing. I see a women at the top of her game who wants to see how good she is against the best...the same as Sorenstam.
Sorry it´s in German, but basically, Schröcksnadel says it ´s a "clever" PR gag from Vonn, and if she wants to take on the men, it should be at Kitzbühel or Beaver Creek.
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Cheers for posting that kooky,
It might be a 'Clever' PR stunt by Vonn...but i can't see it doing any harm to any parties...
Surely the media exposure can only be good for the sport, especially in this current climate.
It would be a refreshing change for an organisation and those in it, to see outside the box so to speak and embrace the idea, instead of finding reasons not to do it.
Ski Racing really needs a kick up the backside, to get it back in peoples minds again.
Vonn has all the attributes the media like.
Get the kids to sit up and take notice so to speak.
All imho of course....
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spud, I wouldn´t mind seeing her race wearing this either
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spud, What rules would you set for her being allowed to compete ?
Either one of the USA men has to give up a start slot or you increase the size of the field. If you can increase the field then why shouldn't more men be allowed to enter, there are plenty of male racers who are only slightly slower than the ones who get the start slots, both Dougie Crawford and T.J. could race.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
kooky, I've seen the video shoot...
rjs, It's purely a one off.
Increase the field by 1 and let her qualify for a start position, or let her run as a forerunner.
Either way i can't see it hurting...only positive in my eyes.
Her position wherever she finishes won't be part of the overall result... Whoever finishes behind her moves up a position.
Effectively she finishes last...regardless of where she actually finishes.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Going as forerunner is not right thing to do for me. Things are different, and a lot different with number 1 then they are with number 50. So it really wouldn't be all that fair. Just as with Marlies last year in Schladming... it's kinda hard to say she would qualify for second run, if start bib 20 had half meter holes on course already, and she was skiing as #1.
Of course it's not about overall position, it's not about points, but it's about attitude like "I just beat half of men WC", even though result was influenced by start number. I'm not saying top WC guys (or girls) don't have advantage on starters with higher numbers, but they worked to get front starting numbers. In this case, she wouldn't. And it's really not fair to say she did a lot better then someone with number 60, since I'm pretty sure that guy with number 60 would do a lot better if he would start as first
But if it's purely about comparison men vs. women, then take Kröll as last year's dh #1, and Lindsey and make 1 (or 50) runs and see times... and of course not on gleit DH like LL is, but on something a bit more challenging where things really get right way.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Can anyone give me a little insight into why the decision was taken to stop women racing on the Streif because it was too dangerous? Had there been loads of female casualties? Did the course change? Was it just attitude towards women and safety changed? Not a loaded question here - just genuinely interested to know...
Quote:
For the first time in 1953 people were heard saying that it was too dangerous for women to go down the Streif. However the Hahnenkamm Races were open to female athletes on 19 occasions, apart from a break due to the war between 1938 and 1946. Traudl Hecher from Tyrol not only won the Downhill in 1961. She also took first place in the Slalom and so was able to win the last Women’s Races in Kitzbühel. In view of the course conditions or the equipment used back then, the performance of these ladies cannot be rated highly enough. It would be most appropriate to call them “incredible“.
The Streif is regarded as the toughest DH in the world.
I think you need a very, very tough psychological mindset for this one as well as a brutal physical strength.
At the risk of a flaming I am going to say men do have the advantage over us in this respect , I am sure a few of the women could handle it, but at full on race speed? Also don´t forget the technology of the skis has changed vastly from the last time women were permitted to race on it, the material is way more aggressive, the racetracks prepped by injecting water to give literally in ice rink feel.
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incidentally, if memory serves, from where Herman Maier is in the above pic, to get through the finish took 12 seconds
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
kooky, no, no flaming. Men and women clearly have different physical strength, which is why all this 'try her luck' business doesn't really make sense to me. If it was about luck, we'd all have as much chance as anyone else of winning the race. I have seen the races (not up close unfortunately) so know it's horrendous. I was just wondering if it was a decision based on the fact that the women who had been racing it kept having awful injuries or just a change in attitude towards women and safety from those previous years when women were allowed to do it, or if it was a change in course/equipment (as you say, more aggressive equipment and water injections) that became the deciding factor.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
miranda, I really do think that FIS look at it, and deem it a risk too far. I think there would be a long list of DNFs, to race a race like that you have to be 100% committed in your mind you can finish. Anyway, the women have Zauchensee, from the start hut to the first curve 120 kmh in about 7-8 seconds that should be enough to get the adrenalin pumping!
Didn't one of the quotes by Vonn say she wanted a bash on the Streif too? Fair play to her i say...she's got balls that girl.
If i was in her position, with her talent, i'd want to test myself on the toughest course too. She's at the height of her career and physically very fit. Imagine getting old and wishing you could have tested yourself when you were capable, but were told you couldn't by reg's. You'd be gutted. Some people are driven by the desire to test themselves and give themselves new challenges. It's in their blood and DNA.
I remember Bode being asked what he would do if he had endless amounts of money.
Buy a mountain and ski as fast as i can everyday...without all the cowdoo regs surrounding racing. That was his answer...He only races in DH because it's the only way in the world he can ski that fast safely.
Some people are a different breed...
It's just because there is a mens and womens tour that there is a problem.
Women are allowed to Drive in F1, race in the Grand National, conquer Everest etc,etc all considerably dangerous, but on an equal basis with the men.
This was released recently...yes it's an advert, but it sums her up for me...
I can see the point about not having a professional race if there'll be loads of DNFs. I can't see the point of not letting women do something like, say, the Cresta run.
Mario Rall wrote it pretty good on Skionline.ch, and I actually agree with him:
http://www.skionline.ch/index.php?section=blog&cmd=details&id=159
Sorry it's in Germany, but I guess Google translate would do good enough to at least get some sense what he wrote.
Thing is, it's just not so easy as someone might think. And if Lindsey is allowed to do this, then anyone else would be too, or better to say, they wouldn't have stand to say no race your own races, if they would let her do this. And imagine some young, publicity wanting skier deciding she wants to race down the Streif... on race day... hell... try to imagine Lindsey doing it. Personally, I can't imagine this, and I can't see he come down with at least a bit of dignity.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
MEfree30, That is a SG,not a DH and only about 30 secs of gates, she was way behind when the vids went out of synch. Good post though
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Way behind kooky, ??? Fractionally i would say...she was leading at one point...and we don't know what section of the course that was...could be near the finish!!! September in Chile last year...so not a bad comparison. But like you say not DH. I also think she will do well at Lake Louise...one of her favourites.
Whatever happens...it's nice to talk racing on here for a change
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
spud, c'mon, take off the rose-coloured specs!
By the time the clips finish Svindal is nearly a full gate ahead!. She's good, she is probably even better than most of the middle-placed men. But against a top male skier she is just too light to maintain the same momentem regardless of her skills. And this is only a training run remember, so Svindal is not going to be going flat out at competition speed.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Surely this would be disaster for womens skiing. Either she loses by a long way and makes womens skiing in general look rubbish or she gets a respectable finish in the bottom half of the field. If she obtains the respectable finish then she is going to want to keep racing the men and maybe some more women will follow her. The mens race will then cease to be the mens race but become the tier 1 race and the womens the tier 2. One this has happened there will be nothing to stop the slower men racing in the tier 2 race and suddenly womens skiing will disappear.
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I don't think we need to worry all that much about second option rambotion
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Samerberg Sue, No rose tinted glasses...just think it's good for the sport.
Am i missing something in that vid?
I've watched it over and over and as Aksel clips the last gate, Vonn is fractionally behind hitting the same gate
I really don't care whether she falls flat on her face... I just think it's a cool prospect for many reasons.
Regardless of results and intentions...it brings ski racing into the media spotlight and i think that's a good thing.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
First... there's basically impossible to take this video as relevant. This is training, which quite often means normal prepared course, not injected one. When things get real, men course is "a bit" different then this what we are seeing in this video. Like I wrote before, she probably wouldn't do really bad, she still wouldn't do great or even good, in LL, but you have to count that LL is one of easiest, if not THE easiest, course on men WC, yet lot of women still have problems with it. When she would hit a bit harder course and conditions, things would get different.
This training run you can see in video is nothing really that bad, so of course difference in those few gates won't be all that huge, but that doesn't mean much.
I'm not saying women courses are easy and flat or not injected, but on one really bad one (super-g on GAP WCH) Lindsey was actually first one to complain how bad it was. Problem is, that men courses are normally even more brutal with whole lot more of bumps and at least as much as ice.
There's the solution, a one off event, like when Carl Lewis raced Linford Cocksee.
The Vonn Trap it could be called; her vs the top 5 best male skiers in the world. That would get all the sponsors a fair amount of exposure as a dedicated event, only stumbling block might be getting the guys to turn up and take it seriously, that however is a question againg of money.
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primoz, Exactly mate...It's Lake Louise...and a one off. Can't see it being a problem for her.
Different if it were the Streif or many of the mens courses.
Would still like to see how she would get on down the Streif though...
Yeah but then it's pretty useless thing don't you think? If it's about "I want to see where I stand compared to men", then this kinda loses point when you pick course which is not really normal course. I'm not saying Streif is place to prove this, but there should be at least sort of "average course", if you can even say there's something like average course.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Top of GM to the bottom.
After all it is free
After all it is free
We could make all FIS races mixed, giving 16 YO girls start numbers over 200 should fix the problem.
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rjs, that´s just nasty!
Actually, I think CH20 has the solution,money shouldn´t be a problem, isn´t she sponsored by Red Bull? This seems like the type of even they love to promote.
As for the track, Val d `Isere or GAP.
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primozIt's probably more to do with logistics. Time and place. First of the season, Men and women in the same place within a week.
If it's going to happen...then doing it at the beginning of the season so to concentrate on the real world makes sense.
It probably won't happen unless she gives up the right to race in the womens...
All your points are valid...but she has said she would like a go on the Streif...
So many things to stop her doing it though...countless. Regulations, time, logistics, place etc,etc.
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