 Poster: A snowHead
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RattytheSnowRat, Haggis_Trap, My thoughts agree with yours, time is key factor, given a chance, probe, locate them and then get them out asap! let others find others buried and do same.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 3-10-12 14:18; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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One other random comment.... Mammut Pulse looks a great beacon, though somewhat complex from my experience. Most recreational skiers would be better off with the Mammut Element from that manufacturer (same beacons, fewer buttons/ modes, 100 euro cheaper, no stupid lifesigns feature, still has a mask feature for multi-victim if that is important to you).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have a bit of a negative vibe on the old Tracker 1. I know it's popular and it's very easy to use in the most common training scenario - searching for a single transeiver on or just below the surface.
As part of one course I took part in, we set up some deeper burial scenarios (nothing extreme, just more realistic 1 - 1.5m burials) and the Tracker 1 was frighteningly innaccurate. Really put me off, even though I'd recommended them previously.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Haggis_Trap, +1 from me especially on the avalanche situations being different every time. All the research I have read shows this to be the case and stresses very strongly that its the digging stage which is crucial.
There are so many different scenario's that its difficult to list them all out here, other than to say that multiple burials and only one rescuer is a rare occurrence, thank goodness I would hate to be the one in this situation, however if I was I would try and rescue the closet victim assuming that they were all buried and no one was visible on the surface.
As mentioned above if you can see arms legs skis (still attached?) then this is your first rescue
If its multiple buried victims with multiple rescuers then it makes sense to still go for the closet beacon signal, then have at least 3 people shovelling one doing the tunnel and the others clearing the snow from behind as quick as possible, if there or more rescuers than 3 then the others could continue with their beacon search, to the next closest signal.
In multiple group search then one person should be nominated as a leader, if your with a guide then this is your guy or girl.
The other thing is that shovelling is really hard work and some people may not be up to it, this should be factored in to the rescue.
Alos always remember that some beacons switch back to transmit if you stand still, be careful this can confuse the rescuers.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| I have a bit of a negative vibe on the old Tracker 1. I know it's popular and it's very easy to use in the most common training scenario |
^ Yip - it is a 10/15 year old model.
In their day beacons like the Tracker 1 / Ortovox M2 or X1 were state of the art. Now they are a little dated.
With only 2 antenna you get 'spikes' as shown below.
3rd antenna helps resolve the issue significantly.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Sure, well aware of all this, but the Tracker 1 was by far the worst transceiver out of all those we had to hand (including old single-antenna systems). It just didn't seem to be able to cope. Hot-spots 7 or 8m away from the burial, etc.
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What is an efficient digging technique? I am genuinely interested!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I retired my Tracker 1 following some tranceiver training in St Anton in January. In search mode it was dead slow compared to newer, three antenna beacons like the Pulse which I now own.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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What is an efficient digging technique? I am genuinely interested!
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Leave the probe in the ground where it struck the victim and retreat downhill 1.5 times the depth of the inserted portion of the probe. The aim is not to dig the victim out in the max 13 mins you've got (15 mins -2 for search), rather you are trying to get someone's airway clear in that time, which is a more realistic goal. Hence dig into the slope from the side with the aim of exposing the head. A narrow shaft going down the probe might get deep quickly but you'll struggle once you reach a certain depth and it will be hard to broaden the pit out. You'll also be standing on them.
http://www.alpineclubofcanada.ca/services/safety/forms/shoveling_technique.pdf
Actual digging wise, you want to chop blocks out of the snowpack with a stabbing or cutting motion using the shovel blade and then move them using the shovel rather than putting the shovel in the snow and then levering the snow out of the hole.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Haggis_Trap, et al. perhaps I was not being very clear. I was NOT suggesting that you wander around "locating" everyone before deciding who to dig for.
But, if you search for and locate the first victim under (eg) 2m of debris and do not have enough rescuers/equipment to dig VERY well while still searching for others then I think there is a strong argument for marking the spot and then looking for other victims who could be more realistically extractable. How would you feel if you spent an hour digging, to almost certainly find a dead body, and then found that the "next" victim was a short distance away under 20cm. (but now also dead). I agree triage is not normally so clear cut but hopefully people see my point.
FWIW we are fully in agreement on all your points about "multiple burial features" not being a big decisive thing when picking a beacon. I love my Pulse because on all the courses/practice I have done it seems to pick up/be-pickupable about 5-10m beyond the range of the other transceivers 
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| BenAS wrote: |
Some great advice, the follow up question for a bonus point is - where to buy?? - here/online (if so where) or in the alps/france.. (again if so where).
Interesting about talking off your receiver or not having it attached when you're searching, I've always wondered about that and thought that you would have it attached some how more to stop you from dropping it and seeing it slide down the hill as well as to avoid secondary slides. |
Hey, did you get this transceiver?
Which model it is exactly?
I was also told to use snowshepherd.co.uk/
Thanks!
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