 Poster: A snowHead
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A lot of American's like very flat pistes and want ice broken up. This is very flattering to ski on but if you get too used to it, Europe will come at a shock. Having said that the Americans I've met have totally bought into European skiing and love places like Chamonix and Engelberg. They have been V good skiers as well.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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7 days for $553 U.S.? I get a seasons pass to Whistler for $359 CAD 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I skied in Zermatt last year with two Americans, they were excellent skiers, and really good fun to ski with. They seemed to enjoy the occassional bump as well.
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gregh, isn't that a *grooming generalisation*?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ahhhhh .........
... to infinity and beyond.
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I would say that the majority of skiers prefer nicely groomed piste. We are not all international class mogul/powder/bump/hike/iceberg/icecube/ice lolly skiers. Some of us like smooth, unchallenging and predictable conditions.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Frosty the Snowman,
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Some of us like smooth, unchallenging and predictable conditions.
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This is why theres far more serious accidents on-piste , primarily caused by speed.
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stanton, Surely there can be no more a serious accident than death. I dont know the figures but surely there are far more deaths on un-pisted territory and as a percentage of skiers that ski on or off piste then the proportion must be even higher.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| stanton, Surely there can be no more a serious accident than death. I dont know the figures but surely there are far more deaths on un-pisted territory and as a percentage of skiers that ski on or off piste then the proportion must be even higher. |
Colorado skier fatality statistics are here - www.cdphe.state.co.us/hs/Briefs/recdths.pdf - scroll down to Page 3.
by far the greatest cause is collisions with objects (trees) or other skiers - 61% - I would guess that a high proportion of those are at the edge of groomed, tree-lined runs.
Avalanche deaths only 11% - presumably that includes all "out-of-bounds" avy fatalities.
I realise that stats in the Alps would be very different, because of fewer tree-lined runs (lower timberline) and less avalanche-securing of non-groomed areas. Nevertheless, there probably would be a similar danger of collisions between skiers. I think there is a degree of validity in Stanton's claim that groomed pistes are more dangerous places than most people realise.
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You know it makes sense.
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| JT wrote: |
| A lot of American's like very flat pistes and want ice broken up. This is very flattering to ski on but if you get too used to it, Europe will come at a shock. Having said that the Americans I've met have totally bought into European skiing and love places like Chamonix and Engelberg. They have been V good skiers as well. |
Tough to generalise for the whole nation; Coloradans or Vermonters probably ski more like Austrians or Swiss, Texans or Floridians probably ski more like Brits. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I think there is a degree of validity in Stanton's claim that groomed pistes are more dangerous places than most people realise.
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I can see where you're coming from, particularly when you think of the average blue home runs in big resorts such as St Anton, Verbier and Meribel, which some will use as a racecourse and others to learn on. I have been with a number of friends who have nearly been taken out by other skiers at piste intersections (do we need traffic lights at some of these resorts??!) Conversely, in my (albeit limited) experience, black pistes tend to be ungroomed as well as steeper, thus attracting fewer people and dare I say it making them safer to ski?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rob@rar.org.uk wrote: |
| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
I don't mean after 8 hours - if a run is pisted, then left to be skiied on for several days, then it may well turn into a mogul field. Can you then say the run is pisted?
At what point is it no longer considered a prepared piste? |
I don't think there is an agreed international definition of what a pisted ski run is, but my definition would be a ski run which has flattened snow and is largely free of regularly or irregularly spaced bumps. If that is accepted as the definition of a pisted run there is no way that Vail can claim the most amount of prepared piste in the world. |
To be fair to Vail, I would imagine they used the word "groomed" - in North America, this is generally taken to mean "freshly groomed overnight". So perfect corduroy. How quickly groomed runs deteriorate obviously depends on 3 factors - softness of the snow, amount of traffic, and steepness of the gradient.
Incidentally, I think I saw the same claim "most groomed terrain on the planet" on a sign at the base of the gondola in Whistler last season. There are many different ways of measuring these "greatest" claims, and they all usually find a home in marketing-land!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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To come once again to the defence of much-maligned Vail (whom I now no longer work for, by the way), British skiers can get a lower lift ticket price than the one claimed at the beginning of this thread - by booking lift tickets through their tour operator.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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In that case it's high time we offered Americans reduced prices at our (groomed bristled) artificial ski slopes.
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Martin Bell, that does beg the question, that if they can offer a lower price to the TOs, then why don't they offer that price to everyone. Is there a policy to put independent travellers off?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Kramer, no, it's probably more that most independent travellers are rich New York bankers who don't think twice about paying that sort of money. Different prices are aimed at different markets. (No different to what airlines have been doing for years.) Similarly to the Whistler season pass mentioned at the top of this page, there are some very good season pass prices offered by Vail Resorts to Denver-area skiers. And local businesses in the Vail Valley get a very good offer, so long as their employees attend VR's customer service workshops - nicknamed "smile school"!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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David Goldsmith,
Free skin graft operation thrown in with every purchase!
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Martin Bell, I see your point, but it does whiff somewhat of a rip off.
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Kramer, more like just free-market capitalism in action. Vail Resorts is a publicly-quoted company, and the share-holders demand maximum profits. So that means charging "whatever the market will stand". And there are a lot of rich Americans who don't care about how much they pay for lift tickets (or private lessons, for that matter...)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Although charging maximum prices doesn't necessarily mean maximum profits...
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Kramer, only a fool (and a rich one) pays the window price (so I was told by several people out there). When I was there in March, I think I only paid full price on one day, apart from that, it was closer to half price each day.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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How did you get cheaper prices Foxy?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Kramer, I got them through friends, but you can also buy down in Denver at the bigger shops - places like Gart Sports tend to do discount tix.
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Wear The Fox Hat, this is getting onto similar territory to that MtBakerSkier mammoth thread on Epic. I suppose we should be thankful for those "rich fools" as they help subsidise the experience for the savvier shoppers like yourself and the freeloaders like me.
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You know it makes sense.
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Kramer, I believe once you have got around the "Buddy Pass" problem (that you have to be physically present in Denver in October to buy it) the first year, you can then renew in subsequent years online.Wear The Fox Hat, presumably your friends helped out in that respect?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Martin Bell, Breck season pass holders are very useful friends to have...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm a firm believer in "you get what you pay for" - and if Canadian/American lift tickets are expensive that's fine by me, better than some crappy european resort with an overcrowded hill and mardy "campers".
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Alexandra,
Thats fighting talk..!! Where have you been in europe that is as you say 'some crappy european resort'
And what is a mardy camper?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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JT, I just Googled it with no luck.
Martin Bell wrote:
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I think there is a degree of validity in Stanton's claim that groomed pistes are more dangerous places than most people realise.
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Can't disagree with that. We ski with kids and this year our grouped picked a resort based on the quietness of the resort
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Frosty the Snowman,
Maybe Alexandra will enlighten us
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JT, Perhaps its somethng to do with Masque's new mobile turbo lurve shack
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Frosty the Snowman,
Might get to see that at the PSB, I'll tell you if it is 'mardy'...!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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JT - haha not looking for a fight thanks... anyway I'd wipe the floor with ya!
I've only been to Europe a few times, Lenzeheide (? Switzerland), Cervinia and Zermatt.
"Mardy campers" = people who go on package holidays*.
*Yes, I'm aware what that says about me.
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FAQ
You can ski for 30 days in The Arlberg for €474 or pay another 174 and ski for the season ( 5 months) 
Still, it's great for me 
