 Poster: A snowHead
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| andy from embsay wrote: |
| Easyjet have gone nuts. Flight on 17 feb back on 24 feb, leeds geneva. Earlier today was £500 each. Now £75 each. |
Manchester - Geneva
Jet2 = £373.96 (was £381.94)
EZY = £145.98
So why is this?
Well there are a few reasons but the main are operational costs, and sale bands
1st Operational costs
Let’s face it EZY is MUCH bigger that J2, so they can haggle better deals from suppliers, from the cost of buying the plane in the first place right down to the cost of the fuel, staff uniforms, administration, etc, etc.
Next Sale Bands (Most SH’s know this but again, just in case anyone is wondering)
Seat prices bands.
Say you have a plane that holds a maximum of 100 people (it’s only a small plane) and it will cost 100 to fly it from point A to point B. You want to make a profit of 5% and another 3% to cover non-flight costs, and you assume a sale of 80% of the seats (so you will be looking to make at least 8% profit on 80 passengers).
So each seat will cost you #1.25 to operate (plus non-flight costs, eg, baggage handling, check-in desk rental, etc) , then add in your profit, so you need to generate an average of 1.31 (rounded) per seat – of course if you sell more than 80% of the seat you’re up on the deal 
Price Band A 10 seats @ 0.85 (it looks good in adverts)
Price Band B 20 seats @ 1.1
Price Band C 20 seats @ 1.35
Price Band D 20 seat @ 1.6
Price Band D 20 seat @ 1.85
And the last 10 seat @ 2.1 (should have booked earlier)
And there you have it – you are making 8% profit even if you have 20% of the seats unsold.
NOTE - airlines will always plead poverty and in this case (the numbers above) it "could be" (and is) shown in adverts that they are only making a profit on the last 7 seats sold (in this case all of the 8% is made up of the sale prce of the last 7 people + £0.3 extra for the hell of it). Of course this is B0locks as the profit comes rolling in even if these last seats ain't sold. But hey, it looks good in adverts and it is (sort of), almost true so why not use it 
But, SH’s beware of groups ?
Remember that seats on all airlines are sold in bands…….. So if there are only 5 seats left in band A and you want 6 seats you will be sold these in the next available band (which has sufficient availability to take your whole group at the same price) which could be more expensive.
Also, andy from embsay, don’t forget that it’s not always the cheapest bands that are allocated 1st ????. So it “may” be worth waiting to see if the price comes down. However no airline will ever tell you which bands are the next available.
Now it could be that Jet2 are selling most of the seats in one band so at the moment it looks a bit mad. But once EZY’s cheaper bands are all full, then the Jet2 cost will start to look like a good deal – but you have no way of knowing this. It could be the J2 have got it wrong or they could be selling the higher priced bands now to catch the “always book early crowd” in which case the cheaper bands will go on sale later. It could be . . . . . . . . oh well, you get my drift.
Best bet is just to book a flight when you’re happy with the price and definitely don’t worry about what you “could” have got it for or what you imagine other people are paying (that way lays madness)
But it's up to you – do you have the nerve to wait and see (ya never know)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wayne, Not trying to criticise you because I know you try not to profiteer on the half term dates but a lot of tour operators do.
I have just recently booked my flights at half term to DIY and they have come to around £100 per head I expect to ski cheaper than I can do it with a tour operator for the equivalent holiday or near equivalent any way I usually stay eight days to get in extra skiing.
Tour operator holidays can be economical but so can DIY and at least with these you can tailor them to your own requirements.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| T Bar wrote: |
| Wayne, Not trying to criticise you because I know you try not to profiteer on the half term dates but a lot of tour operators do. |
Don't understand your logic. I have not seen sHs moaning about cheap January holidays - when low prices are forced on the TOs because of market forces. TOs charge what they can when they can because they are in business, not running charities. Frankly, being a TO is not a business I would want to be in. For example, I see that TUI has made an operating loss for the ending 31 December 2011. Is that one of the companies you are accusing of 'profiteering'?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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achilles,
Yup profiteering was probablythe wrong word and I don't particuarly blame TO's for putting up their prices. My argument was more with Wayne who persistantly claims that it is not cheaper to DIY when in school holiday time ti frequently is. Can't usually beat the knock down prices in Jan and I don't complain about them.
One thing I am not to keen about TO's is their frequently poor level of service though, again not the same for all of them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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T Bar, understood. Good service should be part of the ethos, IMV. Personally I am prepared to pay for it - but I guess it is a marketing decision for the company involved.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| T Bar wrote: |
| I don't particuarly blame TO's for putting up their prices. |
The reason we charge more at half term is because we have to.
The flights are more expensive (as there is a greater demand for each seat). I pay around 40% more per sector for HT dates than none)
The hotels charge us more (as they can). Hotel management in ski resorts know when every major holiday is in each European country and they know they can charge more for these dates to these nationalities.
It simply costs us more to run trips at half term than is does at other times.
| T Bar wrote: |
| My argument was more with Wayne who persistantly claims that it is not cheaper to DIY when in school holiday time ti frequently is. |
No it's not - for most people. It "is" possible to get some really cheap holidays during HT by DIYing. But this is not the case for the majority of people. There are only so many cheap flights out there and once they are gone, that's it. As the % of flights that can be had by members of the public for less than the majoirty of TO's pay is only around 15%, this means that 85% of people will pay more. If you know what you're doing and can ensure you're in the 15%, then hey, good for you.
But of course "most" people can't be in the cheap band for tickets.
I’ll give you an example (I have to do it for Italy as the French methods just baffle me – but I assume for TO’s who know what they’re doing in France, it’s about the same).
Feb Half Term 2013
Hotel Alpina in Madonna di Campiglio – dead nice 3*, right in the center of a major ski resort, so this is about average and what most people will go for.
Flight cost (London – Venice) with BA (price as of now) £338 per person (I use that flight as an example as I have 80 seats on it)
Transfer on the Dolomiti Express (assuming the exchange rate is around 1.2) £63
Hotel (assuming the exchange rate is around 1.2) £654
Lift Pass (assuming the exchange rate is around 1.2) £182
Ski Hire (assuming the exchange rate is around 1.2) £73
Total £1,310 (which is £200 more than we charge, so for a typical family of 4 (and lets face it, over HT, most people are in family groups), it would be £345 per person cheaper - as we charge less for family rooms )
Oh and that’s assuming you can get a transfer, as the DM is only going from Milan next year to Madonna 
it’s also assuming you can book your flights now. Our prices will still be the same in a few months – once all the cheaper (publically available) flights have gone.
But my main point is that, yes, there are “some” DIY options that will work out cheaper than a TO (lets not talk about the volcanic ash cloud, trips to the dentist, collecting lost luggage, or basically someone to sort out your problems for you), but for the vast majority of people it’s always cheaper (and much less hassle) to go with a TO.
Mind you there is a major downside to all this – you may end up in my ski class 
Is this one of them-there Thread Drifts 
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Wayne,
I go on holiday twice a year in school holidays at the moment for skiing, I have generally had a look at the brochure prices because when you multiply evreything by four it really mounts up. I have consistently found the holidays cheaper than the equivalent TO price. I do not know what is the max you have to pay but when people ask the question on  they can get pretty good info of how to do it cheaper.
If you are booking late it may mean slightly less convenient airports and sometimes it may not be possible, but with a bit of ingenuity it often is. You can immediately save nearly £200 off the price you have quoted by changing planes, less convenint but then hanging around airports waiting for other planes is not always convenient nor is the 3am rise which a half term return with some TO's often involves. Again the rates that accommodation providers charge is usually a much smaller percentage rise than the TO's charge between midseason and half term.
I am not slagging TO's in general, a lot provide a very good service but many people with a little ingenuity and planning can get a better price for a similar or better holiday at peak season.
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Wayne, I just checked where I am off to next year. Ischgl. The cheapest price that Crystal have flying from Scotland is £920 B+B. On the website the same hotel has the prices for the equivalent week this year as £330 for B+B (next years are not on the web site). In my experience the prices won't go up much so you have to work out how to travel there for less than £590 per head to make a profit.
I will be travelling for about £200 per head if the car hire is the same it may be a little more I guess. On top of that I will be using signifcantly cheaper accommodation as we will be self catering a little out of town but in a very nice spot. The breakfast side is easy as the baker does deliveries to the door. Cost without breakfast under £150 per head.
So for the identical holiday if you got in early you were saving £390, with a little change of spot but exactly the same skiing but no tour operator has the equivalent you are saving £570 per head, this mounts up for a family of four.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have a reasonable idea of how it works, Wayne, and I think about flight prices the same way I do about buying and selling shares - I take a price that suits me then I don't worry about it as that's "my" price. The odd thing about EJ's Leeds flights is that they went from £500 per seat to £75 per seat in a matter of hours - I assume there was an error. It's a shame as I've paid about £120 total extra for 4 people and we have to drive to Manchester (75mins) rather than get dropped off at Leeds (35mins), but I'm still happy to have got half-term flights for £120 a head including baggage and admin fees.
I agree it's not a slam dunk cheaper to DIY at half term - we've done ok this time as we have a chalet that'll sleep 12 or 14 max for £6k (so between £450 and £500 a head). This includes transfers to Morzine and in-resport transport. With these flights (assuming we fill the chalet - not a definite yet, which is my BIG risk!) that means we're about £550 a head transport and chalet. Comparing this with TO prices then it's MILES cheaper for HT, but I can see how your "all in" price can be a lot cheaper than a DIY. In fact I'll bear you in mind for 2014!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Wayne,
Read my post again, I could not find the same holiday as I went on so I found the cheapest.
I then priced that holiday in the same hotel and found a saving of £390 if you wanted to ski the same place the way I did it the saving was £570 (per head both times)
PS slightly wrong the price from the hotel is without breakfast but I doubt this will make a huge difference.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| andy from embsay wrote: |
| Scottish Scrutineer wrote: |
| After this year, I'd rather walk than fly with Jet2 again |
How come? They're usually one of the better ones. |
Booked 2 weeks with Mark Warner, flights from Glasgow to GVA with Jet2. Tried to book ski carriage, but only available on outbound, no carriage on return, so used Skis2U (great service and cheaper). A few weeks before departure, we were informed of flight change: Departure moved forward by 3 hrs, meaning very early drive from home, as flight was now routed via Leeds/Bradford. Return was also via L/B, considerably longer journey time. This was viewed as inconvenient, but accepted.
The return flight was bad, my wife and I were allocated seats in seperate rows, despite being amongst the first to check in, got hat sorted, the flight had no acceptable food, on arrival at L/B we had to disembark to clear immigration, it was discovered that half of the GLA luggage had been wrongly tagged and in the end we had to wait until it was unloaded onto the apron and we identified our own luggage before we could depart for GLA, re-boarding cards were incorrect. When we arrived late at GLA, we again had to go through passport control. I had wondered if Scotland had declared independance whilst we were away. At no point did Jet2 offer any apology or sympathy not even a free drink between LB and GLA, preferring to blame others.
For me, I'll go back to EasyJet, BA or drive
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I can see why, Scottish Scrutineer! Have to admit that as Leeds is our localk airport and we use them a lot and have never had any problems - mind you we seem to be lucky with flights - 20 years of using low cost flights (remember DebonAir?) and never any really problems.
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FAQ
