 Poster: A snowHead
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Not really sure how this is any better than zorbing down a hill outdoors to be honest... You're too busy going upside down to really care whether you're on snow or grass!
Plus it was only £25 when I did it on a farm somewhere.
TBH it isn't that bad if I can just time my visits to be when it's not set up...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Generally, think it'd be ok #if# they had a clear enough booking system.
It's bad enough trying to avoid random kickers / busy student nights etc. Think Rossendale looking more and more appealing..
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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To be fair after you have been out on the real stuff going up and down in a fridge is really tame. I spend 3 mins going up on a lift (if its quick) for less than 30 seconds of run. A lot of the time ( i ski in hemel) the slope is in poor condition and offers little scope to improve skills, its more about survival skiing. The slope can be good when its dedicated race training etc.
As for other slope attractions. There is nearly always freestyle features on the slope, that is because the freestyle skool pay for a feature to be put there for them to use. Actually what is more of an issue is people who sign to say they can ski under control and use the poma when they cant and are dangerous / annoying to others, and actually a lesson would solve all that for them. Its ok when these people get removed from the slope and not when they stay.
Hemel has had cresta run on 1/2 the teaching slope for much of the last year. Ok so it isnt on the main slope, but it does mean less room on the teaching slope so people are moved onto the big slope quicker than they should be which means less space for those who can ski and long lift queues while they learn how to use it (but we all had to be there once)
What would make skiing in a fridge better for me is putting the music on, as the aircon drives me mad. Having said all of this i am about to start to learn to snowboard so will be back to being one of those annoying people who is slow and falls over lots.
Have been in Chillfactore 3 times, once very early which was fine, once at a weekend, never again and once for a tryout. My main issue is loading there. I cant get through the turn styles, sometimes the lifties are excellent and help other times i end up joining lesson queues as i can only use one lift and got 3 runs in an hour which meant poor value for money.
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| Quote: |
And seriosuly... bragging about it being the first sphereing on snow ?
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They obviously don't remember "apocalypse Snow" from the mid 80's or was it "time waits for snowman" !!
and by the looks of it they don't take customer comment seriously (according to their FB page) comments on there are not logged
back the overriding factor that for most snow slopes the main revenue stream is from shops and eateries paying rent to be there
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
back the overriding factor that for most snow slopes the main revenue stream is from shops and eateries paying rent to be there
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I hear that sort of statement a lot (that the domes are just a loss leader draw for shops) and i am never too sure that it stacks up... I am guessing but would imagine snow revenue at most snow domes to be over £5M annually and i cant imagine rents at outstrip that, could be very wrong but is the snow say at MK a bigger attraction than the bowling alley, cinema, airkix, rock wall etc... CHill has maybe a dozen shops .. off topic but would be interesting to understand the business model better...
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Stupid prices for one or two rolls down the slope. I can't imagine enough people will do it for them to keep on with it.
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I find it hard to believe there'll be enough takers to provide any significant revenue. As well as the setup / operating costs, the likelihood is they will be hit by a reduction in skiers.
The focus for this place should be on the pricing for the main slope, which presently offers very poor value for money. There is plenty of opportunity to flex pricing during non peak times. As an example, the £5 happy hour sessions were really well attended. I understand this is at the extreme end of pricing, but there will be plenty of punters who can't pay the £20 - £25 hourly rate, who would attend at a lower rate off peak. The place is hammered on Sat & Sun, there's no need to impact pricing on the truly peak times, but it is often deserted outside those days.
The 'extend the pass for £5 per hr' isn't really that attractive, as TBH 1hr is really enough for most skiers on the main slope before a degree of boredom sets in. (for me at least!)
This is not a theme park, there are plenty of people who would welcome the opportunity to attend on a regular basis, but the pricing and style of the promotional activity just does not lend itself to this.
The most pointed example of this is that for most families, there's no viable option for kids' development. After the regular lessons the only option is the race club which, if my 2 attended each week, would cost me £360 per month!
The online booking system is a shocker too, this really needs to be updated.
I'll be checking out Rossendale too, it was all we had in my day blah blah..... 
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| PKnH wrote: |
| sarah, DamonST, the fridges seem to make their serious money from selling lessons and leasing out the retail space. Next in line are the full price punters. Low down on the list are the vociferous facebook moaning regulars, who will buy a cheap low season monthly pass and then think they own the place. I looked at the link http://www.facebook.com/ChillFactore/posts/122709537855455 and many of the posts are the same people. Even if they amount to 100, it's not a lot considering the footfall at Chill Factore. As TechHead, said, it's obviously a publicity stunt, just watch the free radio and tv airtime they will get. |
Absolutely, it never ceases to amaze me that the car park is full, yet when you go inside there is only a handful of people on the slope. But some of the retail units aren't doing too well either.
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| TechHead wrote: |
| MISteve, you have to understand that the overheads of Chillton are eyewatering. It is after all business and they need to make money. Take a step back and and consider what they are doing or trying to do. Widening their customer base. Creating out of season revenue. These people do have a bit of experience of this sort of thing - see Alton Towers for details. |
Yeah, I know, I worked there for three years. A large portion of their income actually comes from the rent they garner from the units in the village and another large chunk comes from the snowsports school. Hence why they regularly pack the teaching slope to well over it's health & safety capacity. They've managed to create significant out-of-season revenue largely by slashing their prices, keeping the ski school busy over the summer. The ski unlimited pass was also a long-overdue development that dramatically increased footfall and revenue over the quieter times of year.
The retail units aren't happy because the regular slope users represent their biggest spenders. Whether its people coming through the ski school that finally decide that they want their own boots/skis/jacket/etc. or the regular freestyle users that want to replace or upgrade their equipment or the parents of the race kids that are going to splash out on junior race skis on a regular basis. People that come through the doors just to go airboarding or zorbing aren't going to feel the need to then go into a store and buy their own gear and I'm fairly sure that the return custom generated by these activities is very low. Would you pay £50 every week to get one roll down the hill? Nope. Even before the unlimited skiing passes there were people that would make at least one visit a week, some would come 2-3 times. CFe are simply trading regular, high-spending customers for people that will come for a day and say "that was fun, but I'm not desperate to do that again."
As such the company succeeds in alienating the people that drive the industry and pulling in a crowd that will only occasionally visit the centre, without putting any money into the tills of the retailers. Except for Nando's. There are days when the slopes are empty, but Nando's is packed wall-to-wall.
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Loads of good comments here, thanks guys.
skimottaret, not off topic, I would like to understand the business model too, as things like this flippin' ball just really make me wonder.
On a more positive note the giant beach ball has gone for today anyway  Had to pop up there and was fully expecting to see it in action but it was gone. Slope was reasonably busy this morning.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It would solve everything if they slung a couple of rails round the outside of the building and just pushed everyone out of a door at the top. Release the balls!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
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back the overriding factor that for most snow slopes the main revenue stream is from shops and eateries paying rent to be there
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I hear that sort of statement a lot (that the domes are just a loss leader draw for shops) and i am never too sure that it stacks up... I am guessing but would imagine snow revenue at most snow domes to be over £5M annually and i cant imagine rents at outstrip that, could be very wrong but is the snow say at MK a bigger attraction than the bowling alley, cinema, airkix, rock wall etc... CHill has maybe a dozen shops .. off topic but would be interesting to understand the business model better... |
The Xscape domes work on a different model to CFe, hence the huge difference in floorspace available for retail premises in Xscape. CFe originally marketed itself on having the biggest slope, the best snow and the best instructors (hence being the "BASI Center of Excellence" for a while after it opened). Xscape Castleford does operate its slope at a loss, but that's because of the huge amount of space it lets to businesses like the bars/restaurants and the cinema, it definitely stacks up there.
I think you're over-estimating the on-snow revenue these places generate. Can't remember the exact figures, but the turnover at CFe was something in the order of £2m not long after the new management arrived and I think that was a total figure, not just the on-snow revenue, either way it falls a long way short of the £5m mark.
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You know it makes sense.
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I've never found CF to have a particularly bad surface... A little bit cut up sometimes for sure, and does tend to develop an icy rut on each side of the column at the top, but perfectly skiable. How boring would that tiny slope be if it was perfectly, freshly groomed all the time?
Also last time I went (December I think?) they'd just had a load of totally brand new hire skis - I got the first go on some and they were great. Actually properly sharp edges and super fast bases. Great fun!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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gatecrasher, The race training session 7-9am on a Sunday morning never seems to have anyone else on the slope.
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Poster: A snowHead
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RobW, who runs the Sunday sessions do you know?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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they havent got real penguins though
and its not a world first
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sorry gatecrasher we don't go often enough to know the names - we need to leave by 5am to get there so it only happens every few months.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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RobW, no worries, the Monday night ones are a bit more "interesting" 
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herrprentler, Sounds great!
We run a similar deal at our slope in the middle of Birmingham. £37.50 per month for unlimited skiing on three evenings a week (Tue/Thur/Fri), including joining in coaching/training sessions catering for all levels from novice through to national-level racers. For regular skiers these are just fantastic value - few people could afford to do such regular skiing at a fridge.
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| Quote: |
I don't understand what extra thrill there is from running the ball down an expensively maintained snow slope
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CathS, the same could be said for indoor artificial snow v outdoor artificial slopes. The regular outdoor artificial slope boarders and skiers are in no way technically inferior to their artificail snow cousins, infact they often have better skills because of the more demanding surface. Equally, when those outdoor artificial slope users do hit the snow, they take less than a few hours to adjust.
So what is the extra thrill from running skis or board down an expensively maintained snow slope and why would someone be willing to pay so much to do so?
Snow, cold, indoors, expensive, shopping centre, artificial light, odd smell, enjoyable, frustrating, relaxing, stressful, traffic delays, controlling, theme park, too busy - these are all feelings I get when I use my local Dome. I go once a month on average and use a dry slope regularly.
What about anyone else?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| PKnH wrote: |
| Quote: |
I don't understand what extra thrill there is from running the ball down an expensively maintained snow slope
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CathS, the same could be said for indoor artificial snow v outdoor artificial slopes. The regular outdoor artificial slope boarders and skiers are in no way technically inferior to their artificail snow cousins, infact they often have better skills because of the more demanding surface. Equally, when those outdoor artificial slope users do hit the snow, they take less than a few hours to adjust.
So what is the extra thrill from running skis or board down an expensively maintained snow slope and why would someone be willing to pay so much to do so?
Snow, cold, indoors, expensive, shopping centre, artificial light, odd smell, enjoyable, frustrating, relaxing, stressful, traffic delays, controlling, theme park, too busy - these are all feelings I get when I use my local Dome. I go once a month on average and use a dry slope regularly.
What about anyone else? |
PKnH, I would agree with you on most of what you say, so why on one hand do you say what is the extra thrill of going to a dome to ski/board, then on the other hand say you still go once a month in addition to the dry slope?
I'm not sure if it can be compared with the ball thing on snow vs farmers field as It's not your body interacting with the slope!
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I use my local dry ski slope that is run by volunteers. It's £140 for a family annual membership with no extra charge for useage. £35 for 3 x 1.5hr lessons for beginners. £5 for 1.5hrs for further lessons. The opening times are a bit limiting but it's enough for us.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
PKnH, I would agree with you on most of what you say, so why on one hand do you say what is the extra thrill of going to a dome to ski/board, then on the other hand say you still go once a month in addition to the dry slope?
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gatecrasher, i'm not entirely sure why ! but I suppose its a test for me and the kids, to be sure that we are still improving and to test that on snow. Ive never really thought about it before in that way. We have great fun on the dry slope because its so wide and open, relaxed and affordable. We attend regular performance sessions and we know we are improving. But you can really feel the difference in your performance when you leave a month between dome visits.
Feel like ive just had a therapy session, thanks gatecrasher, 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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That's pathetic. Zorbing indoors. Wow. Well done.
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PKnH, you are very welcome, my door is always open!
The better you get the more the minor flaws feel magnified!
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You know it makes sense.
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£40 for single rider off-peak...40 sec travelling down the hill... that's £1 per second. It's possible to rent a Ferrari for less than £1 per minute, although for a longer period. I know which I would enjoy more!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| ajl338 wrote: |
| Actually what is more of an issue is people who sign to say they can ski under control and use the poma when they cant and are dangerous / annoying to others, and actually a lesson would solve all that for them. Its ok when these people get removed from the slope and not when they stay. |
There's far too many like that at CFe, and I've never once seen anyone removed, aside from one guy who had to be carried out.
| wickyb wrote: |
| The online booking system is a shocker too, this really needs to be updated. |
I think it's recently had an overhaul. Certainly a facelift anyway.
| RobW wrote: |
| gatecrasher, The race training session 7-9am on a Sunday morning never seems to have anyone else on the slope. |
The slope doesn't open to Joe Public til 9am on Sunday, just as race training finishes... well, scheduled to finish. They usually have a few more runs after opening time, and the more conscientious will level out the piste before they go.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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vivski, thanks you are referring to Hemel still aren't you?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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gatecrasher, vivski and RobW are talking about race training at Chill Factor e, think you must have got your wires crossed somewhere 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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oops, sorry 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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vivski, was in response to this from ajl338,
"( i ski in hemel) the slope is in poor condition and offers little scope to improve skills, its more about survival skiing. The slope can be good when its dedicated race training etc."
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| PKnH wrote: |
CathS, the same could be said for indoor artificial snow v outdoor artificial slopes. The regular outdoor artificial slope boarders and skiers are in no way technically inferior to their artificail snow cousins, infact they often have better skills because of the more demanding surface. Equally, when those outdoor artificial slope users do hit the snow, they take less than a few hours to adjust.
So what is the extra thrill from running skis or board down an expensively maintained snow slope and why would someone be willing to pay so much to do so?
Snow, cold, indoors, expensive, shopping centre, artificial light, odd smell, enjoyable, frustrating, relaxing, stressful, traffic delays, controlling, theme park, too busy - these are all feelings I get when I use my local Dome. I go once a month on average and use a dry slope regularly.
What about anyone else? |
I ski (and now teach) regularly at our local dry-slope and have also trained fairly regularly at Hemel - and raced at MK and CFe. For a dome Hemel is a pretty good environment, although the snow quality at CFe has been consistently better over the last couple of years (or at least when I've been there). I agree with you that the general experience of the outdoor dry slopes is immeasurably better than being indoors in a fridge (although teaching in the middle of a downpour yesterday, which then turned into a snow/sleet-storm once my gloves were saturated did give me cause to revise that opinion), but there is a substantial difference in the feel of the surface - which can be substantially in the domes' favour.
At beginner/early-intermediate level, I don't think there is much advantage in going to a dome, and it's possibly even disadvantageous - as I agree with you that the more demanding plastic forces even better acquisition of the basic skills, and the more regular surface (if the snow is not well groomed) can allow for more concentration on the task in hand rather than being distracted by the need for survival skiing through the ruts and lumps that develop on a heavily used snow-slope. At higher levels of performance though, it is much easier to develop and perfect carving on well-groomed snow than on Dendix (lets not even think about Snowflex or the complete abortion that is Permasnow), so there are good reasons for using domes for higher performance skiing. It also generally hurts less when/if you fall over (I've done extensive product testing there!). The very fact that domes do also develop ruts and bumps also causes you to develop the reactions and reflexes you need for skiing real outdoor snow - something plastic is really not going to do. There's still a keen community of high performance skiers on plastic, and I still love it, but there's no denying that there are circumstances where domes do win out. (Having recently experienced it, the new surface at Christchurch does though seem a very promising as a good half-way house between the two).
As far as I'm concerned, though, the main differentiator until you get to very high levels of performance is just the amount (and quality) of practice/training you can fit in - a couple of times a week at your local dry-slope will do you way more good than once or twice a month at a dome, if the economics mean that it's an either/or decision. And, of course, skiing is an outdoor sport.
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vivski, and anyone else who race trains at Chill and may not know, apparently training is OFF tomorrow and Sunday due to Avalanche.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| sarah wrote: |
| vivski, and anyone else who race trains at Chill and may not know, apparently training is OFF tomorrow and Sunday due to Avalanche. |
"Balls to that!"
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sarah, OK, now I hate the thing!! Thanks for the warning, couldn't go this week anyway but better get on the phone about booking incase any of the weeks I do want to go are off 
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FAQ
Not keen on this zorbing thing, tho it might be nice if on a tuesday night they had that on one side, race training on the other side and no recreational skiiers 
ah well, if anyony cares about CFe training they now know 
