DAVID SNELL, I agree with you. Like you, I've only been wearing a helmet for 2 years. After being thrown up into the air by a careless teenager who crashed into me I started to consider buying a helmet. The fact that I was even considering the purchase was greeted with mild derision from the older skiers in my group, including my own dad.
One more crash and my mind was made up. The following year I thoroughly enjoyed hearing my dad being loudly lectured in the hotel bar by an American guy who proclaimed that he was mad for not wearing a helmet.
It is shameful that some skiers try to dissuade others from buying helmets.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Walter-Spitty,
Quote:
It is shameful that some skiers try to dissuade others from buying helmets.
There are a lot of people on this forum who don't see any value in wearing helmets, but I'm not sure I've seen any of them actually dissuading others from doing so.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Pedantica, I was referring to the older skiers in my own group scoffing at me even *considering* purchasing one, and the sort of macho (for want of a better word) attitude that some skiers seem to have towards the use of helmets.
I believe in personal freedom and the right of adults to make their own choices. I didn't wear a helmet between 1980 and 2010.
Having just returned from Austria I occasionally did a mental head count of helmet take up - I reckon 90%+ of all skiers on the mountain were wearing one.
DAVID SNELL, Glad you are safe. That accident sounds bad if you were helicoptered off the hill. Looks like they EXPECTED you to be badly hurt and in need of urgent scan.
As for Megamum Where we were the top lifts were not open to kids under 12 not wearing helmets. Huge number of people not wearing helmets in 'our' resort. Probably 90% NOT wearing.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
AndrewBailey, Top lifts or all lifts (Italy, eg)
After all it is free
After all it is free
Walter-Spitty, Well the problem is that the whole helmet wearing argument is a rather clouded one.
I insisted that both the OH and I wore one on our recent heliskiing trip to Canada. Several innocuous looking branches later and she was happy that I had. Did anyone in our extended group really need one?
No.
But, skiing 35-50 degree pitches in ungladed aspens suggests it might be a good idea.
Most on piste skiers will never need one.
Of those that do, it is, by all research that I have seen, a difficult balance between loss of situational awareness versus risk of unlikely trauma ( by that I understand to mean risk of head injury that could be prevented or mitigated by a helmet not including any other crap that might happen).
You also have an almost certain increase in accidents due to overconfidence engendered by helmet wearing.
All that said, mine is a rather fetching colour and very comfy. I am afraid I may wear it rather more often.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
under a new name wrote:
All that said, mine is a rather fetching colour and very comfy. I am afraid I may wear it rather more often.
under a new name
That's what sucks you in mate. The comfort. That (and in my case) the fact that you don't lose your goggles in quite the same way in a yard sale...
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
under a new name, I felt like a knob-head when I first wore mine, then I realised how nice and warm it is in really cold conditions.
Another advantage is that it seems to give me a special hearing power. I can't hear my dad, but oddly I can hear most other people fine. Which is nice, because last year he 'made' me ski into a wall of snow while insisting on trying to have a conversation while we were skiing.
And have you noticed how people look much younger when wearing a helmet? I feel a lot less bald with it on.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
FlyingStantoni, And it's a handy place to hang gloves in lunch spots.
Walter-Spitty,
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Walter-Spitty, My last post on this topic!!. I bought a new "Giro" helmet from Snow and Rock for just under £100. Last week I returned to Megeve staying in a Simon Butler chalet again. I managed to get throught the week with only 2 non serious crashes. However one of my falls involved catching an edge and me catapulting forward losing both skis as usual. During the resultant slide, I could hear the snow grinding against the side of my helmet. Again I was grateful to have the protection of my ski helmet. It is just common sense to wear ski helmets!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I have just come across this thread while researching a new helmet ...i took a fall in the Sella Ronda about 4 weeks ago and ended up in hospital being diagnosed with concussion ...and before you ask I have absolutely no recollection of any of the events .....just going off the top of the hill and then receiving a phone call at the bottom of the piste saying where are you...still had my skis on but in a daze ..and it was 15 minutes later..all I can say is thank the Lord for the helmet ..( a Bolle) ...are there any recommendations as to which are the safest ..
My recommendation is ..as well as insurance, which was not needed...always take you EHC with you ..that was the only thing the hospital asked to see..before they gave me a thorough examination and x-rays and a Cat Scan
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@DAVID SNELL, Seems like unequivocal evidence that wearing a helmet significantly increased your accident risk. 42 years of helmet-free, accident free skiing. Two years into wearing a helmet you have a major prang. I’d blame the helmet. 😀😀😀
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@foxtrotzulu, it's a 6yo thread - we need to let sleeping helmet threads lie
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
If I were buying a new helmet I'd probably look at one that had a built in MIPS (Multi-directional Impact Protection System). The whole point of a helmet is to protect your brain and this gives it that little bit more protection.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Snow Sports Trauma and Safety
'New Zealand Snow Sports Injury Trends Over Five Winter Seasons 2010–2014'
Authors: Brenda A. Costa-Scorse, Will G. Hopkins, John Cronin, Eadric Bressel
In 2010, 42% of skiers and snowboarders wore helmets; this increased to 83% in 2015 (skiers 84% and snowboarders 79%). Concussion very likely increased over the 5 years (1.29, 99% CI 1.06–1.57). By age, 24–32 years olds were less likely to be wearing a helmet when head injured ...
... Head injury was higher in advanced and intermediate skiers wearing helmets than novices; 23, 25, and 10%, respectively. For helmet-wearing snowboarders, head injury increased in advanced, intermediate, and novice snowboarders by 41, 29, and 30%, respectively (when compared with those not wearing a helmet). Overall, there was a 26% increased risk of head injury in skiers wearing helmets (hazard ratio 1.26, 99% CI 1.05–1.52) and a 36% increase in head injury in snowboarders wearing helmets (hazard ratio 1.36, 1.05–1.52).
The prevalence of 'audio ski helmets' ... e.g. https://www.evo.com/shop/ski/ski-helmets/helmets/audio-helmets ... should tell you all you need to know about the helmet industry's non-interest in head injuries, because it's all about selling 'lifestyle' - not safety.
Though some of the helmets we listed may be pricey investments, they’ll ensure that you can enjoy your favorite playlists in stellar quality as you’re zooming down the mountain.
Possibly fatal advice. Take my advice. Buy some intensive ski training. It'll cut your 'fall and collision risk' by a huge percentage.
In the many years before I wore a ski helmet, I had a couple of relatively minor but nonetheless quite painful head injuries from ski crashes. Since wearing a helmet for the last 12 years or so I've had zero head injuries despite maybe 2 or 3 crashes where I hit my head fairly hard on the ground. Maybe the helmet safety thing is over hyped these days, but I still prefer to wear one. I personally don't find any downside and much prefer wearing a helmet in cold weather anyway. If I really hated the things I probably wouldn't wear one as I don't see skiing without a helmet as a major risk in most situations.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Had a very near miss this month, skiing slowly toward a friend that had stopped at the side of piste, about 2m away from him I just caught the sound of an approaching skier so I left a 1/2 meter gap just as that skier shot between us at high speed.
Snow Sports Trauma and Safety
'New Zealand Snow Sports Injury Trends Over Five Winter Seasons 2010–2014'
Authors: Brenda A. Costa-Scorse, Will G. Hopkins, John Cronin, Eadric Bressel
In 2010, 42% of skiers and snowboarders wore helmets; this increased to 83% in 2015 (skiers 84% and snowboarders 79%). Concussion very likely increased over the 5 years (1.29, 99% CI 1.06–1.57). By age, 24–32 years olds were less likely to be wearing a helmet when head injured ...
... Head injury was higher in advanced and intermediate skiers wearing helmets than novices; 23, 25, and 10%, respectively. For helmet-wearing snowboarders, head injury increased in advanced, intermediate, and novice snowboarders by 41, 29, and 30%, respectively (when compared with those not wearing a helmet). Overall, there was a 26% increased risk of head injury in skiers wearing helmets (hazard ratio 1.26, 99% CI 1.05–1.52) and a 36% increase in head injury in snowboarders wearing helmets (hazard ratio 1.36, 1.05–1.52).
The prevalence of 'audio ski helmets' ... e.g. https://www.evo.com/shop/ski/ski-helmets/helmets/audio-helmets ... should tell you all you need to know about the helmet industry's non-interest in head injuries, because it's all about selling 'lifestyle' - not safety.
Though some of the helmets we listed may be pricey investments, they’ll ensure that you can enjoy your favorite playlists in stellar quality as you’re zooming down the mountain.
Possibly fatal advice. Take my advice. Buy some intensive ski training. It'll cut your 'fall and collision risk' by a huge percentage.
David Goldsmith
From the same paper, you know, for perspective:
Quote:
Helmets have been proven to dampen forces and protect the head from injury when skiing or snowboarding with no increased risk of neck injury [4, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26]. Helmets are designed to limit linear acceleration to no more than 300 g following a 2.0 m drop onto a steel surface (translating to 27.7 km/h). Helmets have been proven to reduce head abrasions, lacerations, and mild concussion [4]
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Glad you are ok!
I think in general most helmets work the same way (cycling, motorbike, ski) - expanded polystyrene that plastically deforms to absorb the force / slow down the deacceleration. Plastic deformation is permanent. And you need a new one.
There are some park ski helmets that are designed to take multiple hits, but not many.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@DaveD, I think MIPS is a good way to go, gives more protection against a twisting injury.
When I had a MTB fall I replaced my helmet. It didn't actually do too much damage in that fall but I'd had a similar off a year before that had caused a bit of damage and (as it was a new helmet) I was too cheap to replace it. The second fall really made me think and ultimately I realised that my head is worth more to me than the £120 it cost to buy a new helmet (obviously could have gone cheaper but wanted something lightweight that fitted nicely).
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
If it was me I would buy a new helmet, clean the old one up, and give it to my ex wife for christmas.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
If it is "essential" to replace a helmet after a fall, which seems to be the general thrust of this discussion, what about the many people using rental helmets? Some of those helmets must have had multiple falls in a season, many minor but some major, but it seems likely that unless the exterior shows some damage they won't be discarded/replaced. (On the occasions I have returned a rental helmet I don't recall even being asked if it might have suffered any damage).
Do rental shops buy more "bulletproof" helmets, that can cope better with a few falls / drops etc? Or do they just operate on the principle that a helmet offering say 90% protection after suffering a few falls may not be as good as a new helmet, but is still way better than no helmet at all?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@ecureuil, I think they just operate on the fact it's something else they can make money out of and don't care much beyond that.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@DAVID SNELL, Take a hammer to it then have it mounted on your wall. Hell of a good war story
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@DAVID SNELL, and all...
Two things, and I won't go into detail.
1
Rotational brain injury is common and VERY serious. Now understood far more than it was. I've previously posted the research on this - it's where the brain rotates in the skull due to deceleration, not necessarily impact. Can be far more damaging to the brain than impact damage.
2
MIPS has been adopted widely - originally introduced to ski helmets by POC - and this explicitly responds to the problem of rotational brain damage. The inner shell is linked weakly to the solid outer shell, and allows forces to be distributed.
I wear MIPS - and a shiny, non-grabby helmet (POC Receptor Backcountry). My son wears MIPS (POC Fornix Backcountry). My partner wears a hard-shell Salomon (non-MIPS) which she appears reluctant to give up, and my daughter another POC Fornix.
Oh..and there's a paper I will dig out which says that hardshell helmets using eps do not age. Only one paper, though.
Should a helmet be tested or junked after an impact like the OP's? Junked.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
just as a general point about MIPS, it was my understanding that the slip plane inside the helmet is not "fixed" to the outer shell and so there isn't a linkage to break if you land obliquely on it, is this the correct?
just as a general point about MIPS, it was my understanding that the slip plane inside the helmet is not "fixed" to the outer shell and so there isn't a linkage to break if you land obliquely on it, is this the correct?
I've seen some people suggest that it is linked to the outershell by elastic and it will "break" with an oblique force so allowing rotational movement of the shell rather than the brain, but I think it is just a slip layer that is sandwiched between the inner and outer layer with no fixed points?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Thanks for all the advice ..i shall definitely look for MIPs
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
just as a general point about MIPS, it was my understanding that the slip plane inside the helmet is not "fixed" to the outer shell and so there isn't a linkage to break if you land obliquely on it, is this the correct?
My MIPS POC is connected by a link. They even provide a spare link in case it breaks. But I haven't looked in detail how exactly it is fixed.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
uktrailmonster wrote:
Sack the Juggler wrote:
just as a general point about MIPS, it was my understanding that the slip plane inside the helmet is not "fixed" to the outer shell and so there isn't a linkage to break if you land obliquely on it, is this the correct?
My MIPS POC is connected by a link. They even provide a spare link in case it breaks. But I haven't looked in detail how exactly it is fixed.
@under a new name, you *can* ultrasound them, looking for voids, internal delamination, cracks etc. The process is expensive though, both getting it done and assessment, easily more than a replacement ski lid. I've only ever seen it done in relation to properly expensive helmets for high-end motorsport or specific applications.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Richard_Sideways, you can? how interesting. every day a school day
After all it is free
After all it is free
Richard_Sideways wrote:
@under a new name, you *can* ultrasound them, looking for voids, internal delamination, cracks etc. The process is expensive though, both getting it done and assessment, easily more than a replacement ski lid. I've only ever seen it done in relation to properly expensive helmets for high-end motorsport or specific applications.
This is the NDT stuff that I've done, although not on helmets. The principle is the same though. The gear you need to do this is eyewateringly expensive.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I thought Maddie Bowman's wreck in the pipe today was a pretty good advert for modern helmet design.
@Dave of the Marmottes, nothing will entertain me more today that a public school accented robot dead-pan saying "And I Frikkin' over-rotated a little bit."
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Poster: A snowHead
