 Poster: A snowHead
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I don't mind steep if it's wide and I don't mind icy (all you need is good edges). But I hate slush and those narrow gullies you sometimes get. Moguls are OK if they are hard (i.e. not big mounds of mashed spuds). So I would say conditions are more important than colour of piste markers for judging severity of piste. Generally I find piste grooming to be much better in Italy and Austria than France.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As you've already stated and from the replies you've had there are many variables to consider. I was in LP in January when there hadn't been any fresh snow for a while so many of the black runs I'd enjoyed on previous trips were closed and what was open was compact and icy. There was a sort black down into Le Plagne 1800 but man one section was steep and icy I seen no one skiing it while getting the lift up in the 8 days we were there, it was steep then banked hard to the right then that was it, I found it easier to navigate than the red home run down to 1800 that due to numbers was an icy death trap.
The steepest runs are found on the Bellecote glacier. Both of the blacks are a good challenge and the red of La Combe is also allowed to keep its bumps. The blacks bottom out at the base of the Chalet de Bellecote chair and although there is no marked piste, there are usually lots of tracks leading down to the Les Crozats piste.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| But I hate slush |
Try some all-mountain skis rather than carvers?
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James the Last, according to web reviews my skis are 'all-mountain' skis. They are not fat off-piste style but I never ski off-piste. I think it's more the lack of strength in my legs. I just seem to stop dead in slush, sometimes I have to side-step to dig myself out of a mound of slush in order to get moving again. Give me hard icy boilerplate any day...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You need to float over it...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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queen bodecia, I much prefer slush to a hard surface - if it makes you stop perhaps you are normally skidding your turns rather than carving.
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| Quote: |
The steepest runs are found on the Bellecote glacier.
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These do not app[ear on the latest piste maps.
John
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| Quote: |
I much prefer slush
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Poor man's powder, fabulous stuff 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I would fully agree with point 4 in the post by DB, if you can ski fully under control ie keep the speed even and under control and staying within a 10 metre corridor on steep red runs then in reasonable conditions most black runs should be no problem.
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riverman,
apart from moguls - do not attempt moguls for the first time on a steep black 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Mattmulkeen, true
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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James the Last, maybe I am too heavy, I just seem to sink in it.
snowball, I can't turn in it at all, my skis are buried. Horrible stuff. I'm not keen on the deep powder you sometimes get at the side of the piste either. Same scenario, although at least it's not so slow to dig myself out of it.
Anyway, I think we had a slush vs ice thread before and that divided opinion nicely. Let's keep this one on piste...
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OP, I can highly recommend Ecureils just over the vanoise express into les arcs, if the visibility's decent and it's newly groomed. I'm of a similar standard to you and I thought this run was amazing. Keep an eye out for the blackboards at the lift stations telling you which runs are particularly good that day, if there's a black on there then that's a good place to start.
But don't get too cocky straight away and think, "yay! I can do blacks!" After doing Ecureils I went looking for another black, except the one I found was busy and mogully. Not the same experience at all!
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
absolutely. If there's anything more definitely "skiing against local advice" than skiing a closed piste, I can't think of it!
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Reminds me of Avoriaz at the end of last Jan last year, no snow in two weeks, meeting some Brits at the top of one of the lifts on the Swiss / French border.
"Where's the Chavanette?"
"That's it behind you, roped off. Its closed."
"It's closed? But we've travelled for three days just to ski it."
"I'm sure you can still ski it if you want..."
Skied it on the last day because one couldn't got to Avoriaz without skiing the Wall. It was an unrelenting rock hard ice mogul fest and didn't even feel steep. The fear was that the moguls were so hard you'd break your hip if you fell. And so slippy you were likely to fall.
Cut under the ropes on about three closed pistes that holiday, each time thinking "great, there'll be no-one on this". They were, without exception, no fun at all.
Won't be cutting the rope for a closed piste again.
Now hors piste though, thats a different story...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| James the Last, according to web reviews my skis are 'all-mountain' skis. They are not fat off-piste style but I never ski off-piste. I think it's more the lack of strength in my legs. I just seem to stop dead in slush, sometimes I have to side-step to dig myself out of a mound of slush in order to get moving again. Give me hard icy boilerplate any day... |
Speed is your friend here,along with a delicate touch  As said,you need to float over it...too slow and the suction will pull you to a halt! No dramatic turns..again,will slow you down.Clearly,the fatter the ski the more float,but most 'all mountains' would be wide enough.Also,this is the time to sit in the back seat a bit and avoid driving the tips under.To be able to handle slush is as useful as handling boiler plate.Many find both scary...but they are as common as any other condition?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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8611, The wall is one of very few PDS runs I would not ski if closed.
It's far from the best run in the world at the best of times and generally only is closed for very good reason...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Haha! Delicate is so not me! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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queen bodecia, having skied a fair bit with snowskisnow, I can confirm it's not him either 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In fairness, I was very nervous of black piste markers a few years back but in the last 2 years I seem to have gotten over it. I'll ski pretty much anything now. I much prefer a steep icy black to a stodgy sticky blue.
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| under a new name wrote: |
8611, The wall is one of very few PDS runs I would not ski if closed.
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Managed to find two others over skiiers left in Les Haut Fortes that trip too!
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Baron101, A perfect 'starter black' is Ecuriels in Les Arcs. It's off the top of the Peisey chair, and is a last run back to the VE to get you back to La Plagne. It's a distinctly easy black, and generally in great condition. As a confidence booster it's perfect.
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Can anyone suggest any starter blacks in the 3V for OH please? He is a good skier, with 20+ weeks' experience and used to attempt pretty much anything, but a bad ( he stopped breathing) on-piste accident (horrendous head injury, feared broken neck, it was awful) a few years back has knocked his confidence on anything more than a "kind" red. I am happy to stick with kind reds, but he is frustrated and would like to build his confidence up a bit.
He did le Face last year with a group, when conditions were just perfect, but I don't think he was ready and it seems to have set him back even more. Tricky one, as I don't want to make a fuss and I am happy to poodle around as he feels comfortable, but at the same time, I would like to help him to get his confidence back..slowly  One plus point about his accident is that he can't remember very much, but I now wish that I hadn't told him the full story, because it was hell 
I would like us to have a private lesson or a guide, but he is not up for this at the mo and I don't want to put him under any pressure.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| under a new name wrote: |
8611, The wall is one of very few PDS runs I would not ski if closed.
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Get it wrong while skiing a closed run, and it is likely to be very expensive.
It will undoubtedly invalidate just about any insurance policy.
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| under a new name wrote: |
8611, The wall is one of very few PDS runs I would not ski if closed.
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Get it wrong while skiing a closed run, and it is likely to be very expensive.
It will undoubtedly invalidate just about any insurance policy.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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First black I ever skied was above plan peisey village, can't remember the name but I think I took the main chair up and then it was on the right. Was nice, think it went all the way back down to peisey.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Colin B wrote: |
| queen bodecia, having skied a fair bit with snowskisnow, I can confirm it's not him either |
I'm hurt I'm as delicate as I can be with my svelte like figure
The first black I skied(well I think it was blackish),was in Andorra above Soldeu?Named,I think,The Graveyard  Was with No1 son at the time,and we spied it off the lift,it was deserted It looked fenced off,but there was a gap so we figured it was open....WRONG!
Looked perfect as we started down,but soon realised that it had been showered by snow cannons which had frozen into tiny ice balls....and it was,quite literally,like skiing on ball bearings!I have never experienced anything like it,and never want too again  We got down,but with a serious lack of style.
Couple of days later,with some snow cover,and it was fine...in fact,a splendid run.
If its closed its 'usually' for a good reason 
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Lucylou, wow, sounds like a tough situation, and he's lucky to have someone care that much - I suspect I wouldn't be so sympathetic with my OH! It doesn't sound like you should be thinking about easy blacks yet, more like confidence-building reds. If you know 3V well then why not work out a circuit with him on a piste map so he can decide what he's ready for and have plenty of time to prepare mentally? If you don't know the domain so well why not use this as an excuse to hire an instructor/guide for a day or two, to get your OH's confidence back? A good instructor, especially one who understands what your OH has been through should be able to provide drills to help him focus on his skiing rather than his mental blocks.
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You know it makes sense.
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I have found there's a big difference between skiing blacks early on, when nicely groomed (assuming they are pisted), and later in the day when they can be crowded and chopped up. Only thing to watch very first thing is whether they are too icy.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I managed in both visits to Cesana of Milky Way to ski on the Olympic black while it had been recently groomed or still had area not been used and found it easier than many red runs.
It is a different ball game if there is little or no one else using a black run other oneself as one can take all the time in the world to do the descend without any pressure. The quality of the piste in such a case is bound to be in good condition. Did once come down Diavolezza black run without seeing a soul.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Lucylou, wow, sounds like a tough situation, and he's lucky to have someone care that much - I suspect I wouldn't be so sympathetic with my OH! It doesn't sound like you should be thinking about easy blacks yet, more like confidence-building reds. If you know 3V well then why not work out a circuit with him on a piste map so he can decide what he's ready for and have plenty of time to prepare mentally? If you don't know the domain so well why not use this as an excuse to hire an instructor/guide for a day or two, to get your OH's confidence back? A good instructor, especially one who understands what your OH has been through should be able to provide drills to help him focus on his skiing rather than his mental blocks.
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Thanks- I do know the 3v pretty well, but the more I think about it, the more I think a couple of lessons might be a good idea, but to save face, I will say I am doing it to brush up on my own technique (god knows I need it )
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Lucylou wrote: |
| I would like us to have a private lesson or a guide, but he is not up for this at the mo and I don't want to put him under any pressure. |
Sounds like a perfect call for an instructor.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Lucylou, I think andyph is spot on - I always tell nervous friends/guests to have a day with a professional instructor because they won't take you down a piste if they are not fully confident you can ski it - if they take you down it, you know you can do it.
I also agree that you are a good OH and I hope you both have a fab holiday 
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As others have said, atmosphere makes all the difference. There is black in Ischgl (no. 14 I think) which comes down between two rock faces on either side, one of these cliffs has an enormous cross on it and it rather looks like (but of course isn't) it's been erected in memory of skiers who have perished on the run.
The bottom of the same run then steepens to a degree that you'll carry on if you fall and also runs right by a busy chairlift...
All in all, not one to make your first ever black
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Lucylou, There is a large choice of runs in the 3 Valleys with different quality of snow (south side or north side). Some black runs are "easy", some are harder, Grand Couloir is a very very difficult black piste in Courchevel. If you want to build your confidence on stepper runs, I suggest you to have a day with a ski instructor. When are you going skiing ? If I am available that's fine, if not I'll certainly find the best instructor for you.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'm having the same debate about the 'blue to red' transition. I've done a few reds now and I perceived that some were harder than others, but the only places I actually struggled was where there was ice.
I think I just built up the difficulty in my own mind and ended up totally changing my skiing technique. I basically 'got down' my first steeper red rather than skiing it (as previously mentioned)
I was skiing a particular red leading down to La Tania (i think, may have been Courchevel) and afterwards the brother-in-law who is an expert proclaimed "wow, now I think about it, that should really be a black!".. livid is not the word 
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snowarea, stupid question time: Characteristics of North vs South slopes, when to ski them..?
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Lucylou, pylons in courchevel is good if pisted. Even off not it's still not too bad, and runs off into combes. Do not go anywhere near grand couloir, as said above its a bit of a mare.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Mac22, It's not a stupid question at all! Depends of the temperature, the wind, the period, cold winter or hot like spring conditions we have sometimes at beginning of March or mid April ; usually we find better snow conditions later in the season on north sides because it's colder and we can keep powder snow much longer. In the mountains there is no normal rules, it's changing all the time and the best idea is to ask professional (ski instructors, mountain guides, ski patrol).
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Thanks for the advice snowarea,
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FAQ
