 Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
If you ask for permission, then they say "No", you're a bit stuffed. Can't really turn round and then say "well we're going anyway, yah boo sucks". |
Sorry to go off topic, but...
Ask for permission? Goodness - schools have got rather above themselves since I was a pupil. My parents took us out a couple of times and obviously informed them well in advance as a matter of courtesy. But there was no question of asking permission.
If they do say no and you say 'boo sucks' what can they do?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ajrduff wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
If you ask for permission, then they say "No", you're a bit stuffed. Can't really turn round and then say "well we're going anyway, yah boo sucks". |
Sorry to go off topic, but...
Ask for permission? Goodness - schools have got rather above themselves since I was a pupil. My parents took us out a couple of times and obviously informed them well in advance as a matter of courtesy. But there was no question of asking permission.
If they do say no and you say 'boo sucks' what can they do? |
If you keep doing it? Most schools have a clause that allows them to remove a child from their register.
It never comes to that, because parents are sensible. But they could do it...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It's also not too clever to make an enemy of your child's class teacher - I think most parents try to be as co-operative and supportive as they can of their child's school. There are always a few arrogant and rude ones, of course. As I said, we did take our kids out of school, but we did try to be as non-confrontational and polite as possible about it.
Local authorities also do, I believe, have legal authority to take parents to court over unauthorised absences and whilst this is an unlikely course of action in the case of a child with an otherwise good attendance record going on a family holiday, why push your luck?
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Some schools have a policy of fining parents, others will not give permission and if a school has this policy you have to go in and beg. Husband now is feeling bad, and wants to look at half term. Just how bad can it be?
Maybe a topic for another thread! Twice as pricey and twice as busy I presume.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Never had a problem taking the children out of school, if it was a new Head Teacher we always asked informally what the reaction may be. Generally ski trips were thought of as educational. Another parents request to take the kids out to go shopping in Boston USA wasn't met with quite the same reaction!
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| Crunchie13 wrote: |
Some schools have a policy of fining parents, others will not give permission and if a school has this policy you have to go in and beg. Husband now is feeling bad, and wants to look at half term. Just how bad can it be?
Maybe a topic for another thread! Twice as pricey and twice as busy I presume. |
It very much depends on where you go, but I imagine that accommodation in Les Arcs will be 30%-50% more expensive and the resort/slopes four times as busy during half term. Flights are probably twice as much.
I certainly wouldn't go then if I had a choice.
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ajrduff, Crunchie13, in case you weren't aware re: 1950 prices...
Weekly cost of our apartment 56sqm sleeps 6 through PnV Jan 14th ("low season") €1140
Weekly cost of our apartment 56sqm sleeps 6 through PnV Feb 18th ("high season") €3020
Of course, TOs will get discounts, and there are other areas where they can reduce costs, but you may wish to review your estimate of 30 - 50% more expensive...
And husband perhaps to review 'cost' of asking school nicely!
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FWIW - we drive, family of 5. Not so much as a cost saving, we just like it. An overnight stop just north of Lyon means we can stock up for the week in Albertville, be in resort after lunch and get lift passes, ski hire, lessons etc all sorted by 4. By 5 we are sitting on the balcony with a glass of wine watching the flight/train transfer coaches arrive.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Cheapest way is htiching, Getting a group of four into a Truckers cab could be difficult 
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I think some of the estimates of driving time versus flying time are a bit pessimistic about flying time. If you're efficient you can make good time flying. For the sake of argument assume it's possible for you to drive to the alps in about 12 hours. On last years ski trip, we left my house at 0640, checked in at 0700, flew out at 0900, touched down in Geneva at 1100 (1200 local time), private transfer waiting when we arrived so only in the airport for 20 mins max. Less than 1hr transfer to Avoriaz - we were there by just after 1300. Even after mucking about finding the apartment, we were still on the slopes for 1400 with a half day pass.
On the way home we did much the same - got a half day, got picked up by the transfer company at 1300, checked in at 1400, flew out at 1600, landed at 1800( local time 1700), in the house for 1730.
Obviously it can be considerably slower, but most of the time, i think flying will be quicker.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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monkey, if you live 20 minutes from your departure airport, book a private transfer and choose a resort close to the airport flying will always be significantly quicker than train or driving. But in other circumstances the difference in travelling time might not be quite so significant so other factors could be more important when choosing how to travel to your resort.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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it's a no-brainer from NI. We've also managed to leave Belfast and be skiing on the Saturday afternoon in Courchevel. Timings similar to Monkey above but with a two hour transfer. Fly and private transfer every time. £100 flight, £55 return transfer each and £25 parking between 4!. Would never dream of SC so cant comment on the economy/hassle of that - it's a holiday!
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monkey, I bet you still complain about the noise of the aeroplanes when you are sitting in the garden during the summer
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You know it makes sense.
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as a couple, we drove o/night to Andorra, the savings on duty free wine from France that filled the boot easily paid for the fuel, now there are 3 kids we still drive o/night as the kids sleep through the journey I would say DVD player is ESSENTIAL on such a journey with kids!!!.
Taking the car means that you load up at home and don't touch the luggage until you arrive at the accommodation, no check in, transfers etc.
Good point from other posts that 14th jan there will be a lot of late deals going, I got a week in La tania CC for £750 everything included, travel to airport, spending money, lift pas etc etc.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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BergenBergen, ? it's belfast, we don't have a "summer", just a slightly less cold rainy season.
rob@rar, fair point - destination planning is important, but even with a 3 hour transfer, there'd still be a time saving (albeit you'd maybe miss out on the half days). On a sort of side issue, when we were booking transfers last year, for our group the shared transfer was about £48 each return, and the private was £51. Best £3 i ever spent.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Well my penny's worth
I live Bristol way - I usually drive to the Alps - Cham/3Vs etc. I have taken to getting to St Quentin on Friday night (A26 to reims) and get going at 8am - in resort easily by 3-4pm, in day light
I don't save any money - but I take more than one pair of skis and anything else I like. Key requirement is an iPod plus downloads of R4 to tide me down the mways
I always drive back in one day, and I never do this in peak season!
I really can't see me going back to the airports
However, if I was a beginner and didn't have kit, or was going solo I would think about the train or a flight
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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+1 - makes a big difference, and better than just having music all the way.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A car in my case allows me to ski any resort in any country. To make the trip worthwhile I do it in a two weeks each time. The reward is many resorts can be visited in one trip. Sampled 130+ resorts so far.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| monkey wrote: |
| rob@rar, fair point - destination planning is important, but even with a 3 hour transfer, there'd still be a time saving (albeit you'd maybe miss out on the half days). On a sort of side issue, when we were booking transfers last year, for our group the shared transfer was about £48 each return, and the private was £51. Best £3 i ever spent. |
I think for the vast majority of people flying will be quicker, possibly significantly so. And driving to resorts in parts of Austria and Italy becomes even less appealing because of the increased distance. But does anyone drive in order to save time? I don't think they do. It's done because it might be the cheaper option, or because you can take more kit with you, or because of the convenience factor of door-door travel without multiple changes of transport, or you want to have the flexibility to visit more than one resort, or the ability to stay down the valley in cheaper accommodation or perhaps even you just prefer to drive.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Don't all schools say no nowadays? We did it once, going out the week before half term and it was only while we were in Selva that we realised that the kids were on holiday the following week and we had no arrangements in place to kennel them 
Cue frantic calls to grandparents in various cities pleading with them to visit for a week. We avoid half term now and ski at NY cheaper and we have holidays to use up.
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Um - an interesting discussion.
I finish work at 17:00 on a Friday and start at 9:00 on a Monday.
Flying - There used to be evening flights from Birmingham but these stopped when British Airways changed to London Airways. A flight now on a Friday evening is impossible. Early Saturday requires me to leave home at 3:00 so I miss a nights sleep anyway. It is a better story coming back but I still have to leave Les Arcs at 17:00 at the latest.
Train - with a real push it may be possible to get to Paris for the sleeper to the resort (and this may be easier by getting a flight to Paris) and from then on it would be straight forward. Getting back would be a real doddle with a late evening departure from Bourg. Train, however, is very expensive with the return cost to London alone approaching £100 per person. Once again flying to Paris would reduce this.
Driving - Leave when you want and arrive when you want. We leave home about 19:00 and get to the resort about 10:00 to 12:00 depending how we feel. Similarly leave after skiing on Saturday and get home Sunday morning. We have never felt the need to stop in a hotel on the way. It costs about £400. When transfers, parking at the airport, transport of equipment etc are taken into consideration the break even point is 2 in the car. Any more are effectively traveling free. Because the times are at your convenience you get 8 days skiing. that is 33% more than if you fly. The economics is overwhelming. Since my son always fell asleep as soon as we left home and only woke up on the road from Albertville it was by a long way the easiest way to travel with him.
John
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| Quote: |
It costs about £400
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at current prices it will cost about that in tolls and fuel (a lot more in a thirsty vehicle). You need to add to cost of crossing the channel and, of course, wear and tear on the car, which is not insignificant. A discussion like this is like "what is the best ski resort?" It depends what you want, and what your priorities are. I do the drive fairly frequently (around 4 return trips a year, usually) mostly driving the vast bulk of it myself. But I'm not sure I CBA for a week.
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I don't know why anyone would take the daytime train. The point of the train is you get two extra days of skiing for the same number of nights in resort and sleep through most of the journey. I used to love that when I was a child with my parents. Mind you, that means changing to French trains with couchettes in Paris - unless you can sleep on a seat.
However if you want the cheapest tickets you have to book when tickets become available - 120 days ahead for Eurostar to Paris and 90 days ahead for the French Trains. Line 5 metro or taxi between Gare du Nord and Gare Austerlitz.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The budget airlines are determined to shift the economics with £50 return for skis - think I will return to driving again this year or go tour operator - remember also the visit to Majestic or similar in Calais and 150 bottles of wine at £1-£2 saving per bottle......
Also got fed up with independent travel and carting skis and bags around railway stations or the suchlike even to car hire pick up points.
Have to travel 100 miles to an airport anyway as the lcoal one is Flybe turboprops which don't take mens skis as they are too long........... 
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| Quote: |
remember also the visit to Majestic or similar in Calais and 150 bottles of wine at £1-£2 saving per bottle......
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Hmm. Not so convinced that that's still the case, these days.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Flying works if you're near enough a sensibly priced airport. Unfortunately my nearest "sensible" airport is Bristol, 90 miles away up a road that gets congested and has large gaps between junctions, so leaving "problem time" is fairly essential. Might take 1hr 45 mins (+ parking time) might take 3 hours+. Money no object, Exeter would do fine, but not many flights and taxes/landing fees really put the prices up (£60/sector last time I looked). If I lived in London, Cambridge or somewhere near Luton, plane might have a better chance, but living where I do flying is about 1.5 hours in the wrong direction, and by the time you've checked in and got on the plane, you could be fairly close to Dover.
The flexibility of ferry tickets (especially spare carnets donated by my parents!) means that you don't have to leave anywhere near as much "fudge" in the driving times - the flexibility of the ticket is the "fudge" for the A303/M25/M20 problems. Just about breaks even on average costs with 2, much better economics with 4 (but less space for wine...)
On a tour op flight, I'd happily get the really early morning option, but going on my last experience, I would prefer to avoid a mid afternoon arrival - at least the early morning gives the French airport less time to fall over (unless Chambery have bought more buses that is...) Our scheduled arrival was 15.00, arrived Chambery airport 20.00, got off plane 21.30, arrived chalet 1.30 to be left with the room right by the dining room! Prefered driving where we left home 5.30 am, arrived Chambery F1 21.30, arrived Courchevel 8.30, on slopes by 9.30 and in chalet after last lifts... Car got a good space in free car park too. Only decided not to sort another day's skiing on departure as it was getting pretty slushy and we'd had loads of good snow to that point
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Our scheduled arrival was 15.00, arrived Chambery airport 20.00, got off plane 21.30, arrived chalet 1.30 to be left with the room right by the dining room! Prefered driving where we left home 5.30 am, arrived Chambery F1 21.30, arrived Courchevel 8.30, on slopes by 9.30 and in chalet after last lifts... Car got a good space in free car park too.
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yeah but.... apples and pears. You could just as well compare a trouble free flight and fast transfer to one of those days when it's "operation stack" on the motorway to Dover, hours of bad-tempered delay at the Tunnel, one lane open on the motorways in northern France and/or traffic at a complete standstill to Moutiers, etc etc.
Whatever form of transport you choose, if it goes smoothly, it's a long boring trip, and if it goes badly it can be very frustrating at best, and downright dangerous at worst. I have driven off the motorway onto an aire near Dijon because there was enough snow on the road that I felt very threatened by big trucks - and there were several of them stuck on the exit road, which was a very gentle gradient. I've also driven into Dijon at 4 pm, on a day when I'd planned to drive through, because of dangerously thick freezing fog.
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
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Our scheduled arrival was 15.00, arrived Chambery airport 20.00, got off plane 21.30, arrived chalet 1.30 to be left with the room right by the dining room! Prefered driving where we left home 5.30 am, arrived Chambery F1 21.30, arrived Courchevel 8.30, on slopes by 9.30 and in chalet after last lifts... Car got a good space in free car park too.
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yeah but.... apples and pears. You could just as well compare a trouble free flight and fast transfer to one of those days when it's "operation stack" on the motorway to Dover, hours of bad-tempered delay at the Tunnel, one lane open on the motorways in northern France and/or traffic at a complete standstill to Moutiers, etc etc.
Whatever form of transport you choose, if it goes smoothly, it's a long boring trip, and if it goes badly it can be very frustrating at best, and downright dangerous at worst. I have driven off the motorway onto an aire near Dijon because there was enough snow on the road that I felt very threatened by big trucks - and there were several of them stuck on the exit road, which was a very gentle gradient. I've also driven into Dijon at 4 pm, on a day when I'd planned to drive through, because of dangerously thick freezing fog. |
Fair point, but the major advantage is that when DIYing it is impossible to miss your ferry if you're on a flexible ticket - so it is an option to just decide you don't fancy driving any more and stop at the aire/find a hotel. On a plane you're at the mercy of the airline (who generally give the impression of not caring that much). I would consider a proper package (not a flight + hotel type though) but not mad on the DIY flight idea as there is so much to go wrong, transfers, getting to the aiport in the UK etc. I'd rather get to the holiday a day or 2 late than not get there at all having missed the flight as the M5 was up the creek and we were stuck between junctions for 5 hours (been there, done that, but fortunately not on the way to the airport)
Equally the Chambery experience didn't seem like a "bad" day - nothing had actually "gone wrong" there were no mechanical problems, fog or other issues, just Chambery not having the infrastructure for the number of flights and people coming through that day, which is why I am so keen to avoid it in future.
All of our drives to/from the Alps have had their moments - Police Camera Action on the M4 at 3am, diverting round closed bits of A303, snow at Dijon, but because of the flexibility of being in our own car we got around the problem - we always have blankets/pillows in the car if the worst comes to the worst and are quite prepared to bail early and grab a hotel. The car is substantially more comfortable than an airport floor...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
On a plane you're at the mercy of the airline (who generally give the impression of not caring that much)
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our only visitor whose flight home was completely stuffed recently (because Geneva airport was completely closed by snow) was offered a night in a Geneva hotel by easyJet. In the end he hung around an hour or so and got a flight to Luton instead of Birmingham (which was also very snowy) and made his way home the same day.
I'd never fly into Chambery on a weekend but it can be bliss on a Tuesday - can be driving out of the (free) car park within minutes of touching down.
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Poster: A snowHead
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crunchie13, i suppose it all depends on whether you actually like driving long distances. we (family of 4) have tried everything from flying to Geneva, Grenoble, Lyon, Chambery (can be foggy so delays or diversion), train and driving. We now drive as can fill the car with all the gear, but everybody is different . . .
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
everybody is different . . .
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Absolutely. My kids loathed long journeys, 3 in the back of the car - we were living in Scotland with the rest of the family down south during quite a few of their formative years. They very happily opted for coach to the Alps - one of the lads did moan a bit, till offered the opportunity to use his holiday spending money to pay the difference to fly, and have sandwiches for lunches instead of a plate of chips. 
And some people cannot cope without a night's sleep - it would ruin the first few days of the holiday for them. I have no big problem driving all night if the weather conditions are bright and clear. I stop at least every two hours for coffee and a short walk in the cold night air. It's just as well everybody doesn't want to drive or the roads would always be like those grim half term weekends.....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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When the kids were young and we had to go in school hols, we always drove with an overnight stop. Got most of the way to our destination before 7 in the evening, nice meal, sleep, up about 8 and arrive in the resort before the crowds, wide awake and raring to go. Spend the first afternoon sorting the hiring, passes etc. No early mornings/late nights. Did mean stealing a Friday if it was half-term but not even that if Easter was early.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 30-08-11 21:41; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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saikee, Maybe a slight aside - but notice you're from Newcastle, which route do you take to Austria and how long does it take you, only asking as my mate has been on at me for years to drive out and do a little Austrian tour - am tempted but it seems a long way/time when I can be from home-1hrs south of Dublin- to Schladming via bus,ryanair,tram,train in 8hrs but as I get older I want to say I did it at some stage.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Newcastle has a ferry service to Amsterdam. The ferry leaves Newcastle at about 4:30pm and docks Ijmuiden at 9:30 to 10:00.
I usually do a fast run of 600 to 650 miles in the first day. That takes me to around Innsbruck and covering any of the Ski Welt, Kitzbuhel, Zillatal Valley (Myrhofen) and Ski Amade areas. This year I went to Stubai Glacier (next to Innsbruck) for the first 3 days, then a visit to Solden/Obergurgl and then the second week skiing myself out of the valley from Milky Way to L2A/LDH.
I normally need an overnight stop in the return leg as the ferry leaves Amsterdam at 4:30pm.
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FAQ
strange kids!! 