 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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provenjohn, many responses above to your query are exactly as to be expected on this site. Don't think they are just picking on you! Check out earlier threads regarding complaints about TOs and see how many posters feel the complainant has 'unreasonable' expectations. It seems to me that there must be a large number of TOs who post on SnowHeads trying to 'head off' complaints before they reach Head Office 
I feel you are perfectly entitled, when having paid for a transfer from the airport to your accommodation, to expect not to have to lug all your luggage etc. a quarter mile uphill. Those that argue you probably had to do the same at the departure airport are missing the point that you would have expected to have to do this and probably made some provision to make it easier.
I feel you are perfectly entitled to an apology for being kept waiting for 50 minutes after the advised pick-up time. Obviously, the delay might not have been the TOs fault, but an apology would have shown that they cared.
I encourage you to complain to the TO. At the very least it might encourage them to improve their service. In my experience the TO will take ages to reply to your complaint, and then fob you off.
The travel industry is one of those businesses which has too many members who pay scant regard to making their customer happy. They've had your money in advance of providing the service so why should they worry if you are happy or not? There is always another mug they can mug tomorrow!
In my opinion there is nothing wrong in using this site to name and shame those TOs who don't meet their customer's expectations, but also to name and praise those that do. As long as everybody is totally truthful and fair.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 19-04-11 14:55; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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provenjohn, I think you should let the TO know what you think. Although 1/4 miles is walkable distance, if one has children and the adults have to carry all the luggages plus ski gear, it can be quite a lot to carry. Also, you need to keep an eye on your children as well. So a taxi I think is very reasonable. I have only used 2 TOs before. One, when we had to carry our luggages up a slope, the reps and chalet staff actually helped us. (I could only carry one bag as my other hand was holding onto my son, walking up to the chalet, at 3am, in snowy, slippery and dark condition). The other TO always offer taxis where the coach cannot get to the hotel front door. I would always walk to the hotel with my son while my hubby and the bags take the taxi!
If people don't let the TO how they can improve, they will never improve.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| DB wrote: |
| http://www.mywebpower.com/graphics/media/funny_pictures/funny_escalator_fitness.jpg |
 I have seen many times, people in my gym, eating junk food, and taking the lift up to the first floor changing room!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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provenjohn,
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Is it reasonable for the TO to drop a family off
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Blimey they sound quite nice - they usually THROW my lot off
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| Guvnor, funnily enough, my ski gear doesn't weigh 20kg, and I doubt that holidayloverxx's does either. And it's a lot easier to carry a pair of skis than a ski bag. Similarly, it's easier to walk in ski boots than to carry them along with a ski bag and a suitcase. So I'm wondering if you are making anything other than an idiotic point. |
I am an idiot, I've never professed to be anything more. However, even I find it somewhat idiotic to go on an outdoor activity holiday in a mountainous resort and then moan about having to walk up hill for a few hundred metres.
Having said that, and being the idiot that I am, I also find it somewhat stupid to find it easier to carry a couple of loose skis (presumably held together by the bindings over my shoulder?) as opposed to them being held together in a ski bag (presumably with a shoulder strap?), whilst carrying a pair of poles in my other hand, potentially walking back down a potentially icy or snowy couple of hundred metres back down the very same slope I am moaning about in the first place, in my ski boots, to get to the lift. Clearly all you ladies of a certain age emply husbands/significant others/sherpas to ferry all your kit around, dropping you off at the lift in your sedan chair.
Holidaymalingererxx, I notice in another thread that you also do some canoeing? I guess that is only if the car park is within spitting distance of the water then......or do you employ sherpas for the summer season too?
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provenjohn, I've just gotten back from working a winter season with one of the major TOs. Your situation was similar to one we faced in resort (Les Arcs 1800) where the coach could not get up to a couple of the apartment blocks, which were uphill and a few hundred metres away. To combat this, the TO would always provide a minibus to take customers from the drop off point to the apartments. Could customers have made their own way? Typically yes, but this was never seen as an acceptable option, particularly on the first day of the holiday. So on that part, I would agree that you have cause for complaint.
At said apartments, however, in some circumstances for their departure from resort customers were asked to walk down the hill to the coach stop. This usually only happened for later departures, but in any case was not something that I saw as a problem. In one or two cases where the customers kicked up a fuss about the walk, then a lift was provided, but for the most part customers (including families with children) were happy to make their own way back. So (without know the sprecifics of your holiday etc) perhaps you're being a touch harsh on this count.
For an 0420 departure to be 50 minutes late; totally unacceptable, of course. Hopefully they called you to make you aware of the delay so you could find somewhere warmer to wait.
In short, I do think you have grounds for complaint with the TO. But, in my experience, it's always better to write a firm but polite letter to the TO outlining your greivances. There have been exceptional circumstances for why you did not receive a lift directly to your door. And, from personal experience, while the coaches are provided for the TO they are only contracted from a local coach company, so if they are late there's not a massive amount of control that the TO has over them.
I'd suggest you probably deserve at least a written apology from the TO, and maybe a small amount of compensation. Don't think you'll have much joy with a lift pass refund though! Good luck, whatever.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Poor provenjohn, taking some of the comments here! The key issue is that the luggage wasn't delivered - no-one minds walking 400 yards on a ski holiday unencumbered, but it's completely unreasonable to have to carry a family's luggage that far. On three occasions, we've had to walk on arrival, but the luggage was delivered to the hotel / chalet - in the first case, by hotel minivan, and in the second case, the chalet staff formed a chain to bring the luggage up to a chalet (which was not so far but steeply upwards from the main road, only accessible on foot). I can't remember how they did it on the third occasion, but somehow the chalet staff got the luggage to us. This was three different TOs, though not on a superdeal.
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Guvnor, dunno about you but I dont hit the slope with my suitcase so that bit is easy (even carrying the kids stuff too). When we stayed in hotels we'd change for dinner and kids need lots of stuff,especially youngsters, so as well as all our gear ph and I would have two cases each (ours and one for each child). Lifes much easier now we do DIY and I have control over everything.
One of my bigger gripes though was on booking our first hol, through Crystal. We stupidly booked their kids ski lessons and equipment hire. The kids ski school was in a completely different village of La Plagne and the hire shop was the other end of our village. If TO really cared about their customers then they wouldnt dupe them into making such stupid decisions. Lessons learned anyway and never booked that stuff through them again.
Edit - typo
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Tue 19-04-11 16:44; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| provenjohn, I agree with you. I'm not lazy, but I cannot carry my skis, boots and bag (I don't have the physical strength) qtr of a mile and definitely not up a steep hill. . |
So you had to walk up a steep hill, yet you are not physically strong enough to walk up said hill???? How did you get up the hill then?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Shimmy Alcott, but how apt 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
| provenjohn, sulking because you had to walk 1/4 mile is lazy. You walk farther than that from the airport front door to the check in desk. I am genuinely suprised that someone who is going on a ski holiday wants to complain about this. Get some perspective. |
No, it's you that needs to get some perspective!
This was a last minute booking with a leading TO, last minute because Mrs provenjohn has had breast cancer & is only now able to get away, She ski'd for a couple of hours each morning as that is all She can currently manage, She certainly wasn't capable of carrying luggage up a steep hill, to get our 4 bags (52kg) & 2 bags of ski's to the apartment (after I had managed to find it) took me 3 trips, if that's being lazy then I give up 
Perhaps I am naive but I expected better service after spending £3400 for a weeks holiday excluding lift passes, the last time I used a TO was 5 years ago to Flaine, there we arrived at a central point & were taken to apartments in mini buses, obviously I should have asked the question,but hindsight is a wonderful thing 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| provenjohn wrote: |
| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
| provenjohn, sulking because you had to walk 1/4 mile is lazy. You walk farther than that from the airport front door to the check in desk. I am genuinely suprised that someone who is going on a ski holiday wants to complain about this. Get some perspective. |
No, it's you that needs to get some perspective!
This was a last minute booking with a leading TO, last minute because Mrs provenjohn has had breast cancer & is only now able to get away, She ski'd for a couple of hours each morning as that is all She can currently manage, She certainly wasn't capable of carrying luggage up a steep hill, to get our 4 bags (52kg) & 2 bags of ski's to the apartment (after I had managed to find it) took me 3 trips, if that's being lazy then I give up
Perhaps I am naive but I expected better service after spending £3400 for a weeks holiday excluding lift passes, the last time I used a TO was 5 years ago to Flaine, there we arrived at a central point & were taken to apartments in mini buses, obviously I should have asked the question,but hindsight is a wonderful thing |
Aw, glad Mrs provenjohn managed to get away for some skiing. As always, there are SH who are far too quick to judge.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Guvnor wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
| Guvnor, funnily enough, my ski gear doesn't weigh 20kg, and I doubt that holidayloverxx's does either. And it's a lot easier to carry a pair of skis than a ski bag. Similarly, it's easier to walk in ski boots than to carry them along with a ski bag and a suitcase. So I'm wondering if you are making anything other than an idiotic point. |
I am an idiot, I've never professed to be anything more. However, even I find it somewhat idiotic to go on an outdoor activity holiday in a mountainous resort and then moan about having to walk up hill for a few hundred metres.
Having said that, and being the idiot that I am, I also find it somewhat stupid to find it easier to carry a couple of loose skis (presumably held together by the bindings over my shoulder?) as opposed to them being held together in a ski bag (presumably with a shoulder strap?), whilst carrying a pair of poles in my other hand, potentially walking back down a potentially icy or snowy couple of hundred metres back down the very same slope I am moaning about in the first place, in my ski boots, to get to the lift. Clearly all you ladies of a certain age emply husbands/significant others/sherpas to ferry all your kit around, dropping you off at the lift in your sedan chair.
Holidaymalingererxx, I notice in another thread that you also do some canoeing? I guess that is only if the car park is within spitting distance of the water then......or do you employ sherpas for the summer season too? |
Yes I do canoing, I carry my share of the canoe and portage but use a trolley for long distances. I carry all my own skiing kit (skis over the shoulder held together by the bindings) and luggage.
You are jumping to conclusions. While I know I shouldn't bite I'm going to. The issue isn't my legs and walking up the hill; I don't have sufficient grip strength to carry heavy weights long distances. Now, do f*ck off.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| smagsmith wrote: |
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| provenjohn, I agree with you. I'm not lazy, but I cannot carry my skis, boots and bag (I don't have the physical strength) qtr of a mile and definitely not up a steep hill. . |
So you had to walk up a steep hill, yet you are not physically strong enough to walk up said hill???? How did you get up the hill then? |
I never said anythwere that I did or did not walk up any hill. The issue is the bag carrying. see post above
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| provenjohn wrote: |
| £3400 for a weeks holiday excluding lift passes. |
For that sort of wedge I'd expect to be carried up that hill on one of those posh stretcher things whilst being fed grapes by a concubine, let alone having my luggage humped up there.
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I've just looked on Google Earth; a fortnight ago were had to take our stuff 150m to/from the coach. 170m if you include getting it through the chalet, up the stairs and up to the pavement. Should I complain? Last year it was probably further than that and on ice too. I think I'll write to them for a refund too.
OP did you warn your TO that you were travelling with an invalid who wouldn't be able to carry their own stuff and you would need assistance (a fact that has only come out on this thread after a page and a half of posts)? As so often with these stories, the TO's expectation was fairly reasonable without your own special circumstances that you hadn't told them about in advance. You can hardly blame them. And you were only on a cheap package holiday - for all that it added up to £3,400 it's only £850 each. I suggest these people for next year with on-tap 4x4s for you nearly 24 hours a day: http://www.lechardonvaldisere.com/catered-chalet-bergerie.htm#chalets/bergerie/PhotoGallery/Bergerie_Bedrooms.jpg
Last edited by After all it is free on Tue 19-04-11 17:47; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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How is £3400, for a last minute deal, cheap, exactly?
That is, in fact, the cost of at least two ski holidays.
A ski holiday, sans lift passes, costs precisely this much money: £600. Tops.
If I spent £1700 on myself for a ski trip, I would expect a complimentary hand shandy on the gondola, every day.
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And a nosh off on the final day.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Blimey, there are some right tossers on this thread.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| Blimey, there are some right tossers on this thread. |
yup, not restricted to this thread though
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You know it makes sense.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| Blimey, there are some right tossers on this thread. |
And in my gondola, for that sort of money.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I had a similar experience with Eurostar - should I complain? That train is 1/4 of a mile long (400metres) - fact. Guess what at Borg St. Maurice on both the out and return journeys my carriage was at opposite end of the train to the station building.
Blimey I had to walk the whole 1/4 mile with, guess what, LUGGAGE AND SKIS. Thought they might have laid a cab on, or at least unhooked all the carriages and taken them to the end - one by one !
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Poster: A snowHead
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Despite having been on here for many years I think I have had enough! Bye all 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If someone can't deal with people opinions (based on part information) then perhaps it's best for them not to ask for opinions or at least give the full story from the start.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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blimey ladies, do you need to check your HRT dose? You're vile language and judgemental postings have scared of provenjohn now....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Don't go provenjohn, just give the showboating shisters some back! They often like to sniff the air for non-sequiturs and preen their 'intellectual superiority', but it's usually to no avail. Just look at the utterly absurd thread on Ski Europe and you will get an idea of how futile it really all is!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I thought all the Mumsnetters had already moved to snowHeads after the porno thing on Mumsnett 
Pandoro came here after Mumsnet sensibly removed her whingeing tome.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 20-04-11 13:04; edited 1 time in total
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provenjohn, take no notice of the twonkers, or at least see them for what they are...sad little blighters who just love the chance to undermine people so they feel superior for a few seconds. In a way I feel sorry for them, they must have had a pretty grim run in life.
I hope you wife makes a full recovery, having just seen a work mate go through a grueling couple of years fighting the disease I can only assume things have been very tough for you of late. Happily my friend has the all clear now.
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provenjohn if you can't see through the infantile attempts to wind you up by a bunch of powder-puff Keyboard Warriors then you are probably best out of it. But, of course, they would have then won.
Better still, ignore the wind-ups, enjoy the funny asides, and only pay attention to those who you think have something sensible to say.
I think your original question was very valid, and even more so, as you have subsequently explained other circumstances around why you felt like complaining.
The only thing I would say is that it is very likely that the TO will take ages to even respond to your complaint. Instead of them actually dealing with customer complaints, I think they must be on this site winding people up!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Mr Marmot, Well put
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DB, some people were, to say the least, rather curt in their responses. There simply is no need for it.
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FAQ
We tried to explain but got nowhere and the liftie didn't (or wouldn't) understand either English or schoolboy French. We were quite fraught, (been up since early hours) and didn't know what to do. Eventually, we found someone who could speak good English and explained our predicament and tried to find out where to buy a ticket for foot passengers.
