 Poster: A snowHead
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| Mike3000 wrote: |
FastMan,
I would just like to say how grateful I am that you take the time to make your posts.
Thank you |
Mike, you're most welcome. As long as I can find the time, and I know folks like you are listening and benefiting, I'll continue.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| DaveC wrote: |
Spyderman, that's kind of the thing. I understand the potential, but outside of high end skiers trying to achieve a very specific outcome (so, let's just call it racing), it seems like it's a very unclear contradictory message to teach a student. Shortening time in the fall line isn't something I want to encourage since people tend to pivot hard for fear of it anyway, trying to get someone forward on steeper terrain is likely to give them the message they should always be forward on the front of their boot (which I see/hear a lot), and I'd rather they were actually centred anyway. Seeing it as essentially spectrum training is fine, to give awareness of your actual fore/aft position by playing with being more fore or more aft, but again unless it's carefully framed, it seems like it encourages front seat driving and gives confusing messages to students.
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Dave, when introduced, explained, and worked on properly, there is no confusion for the student. In fact, it's just the opposite.
Students very quickly learn, via self discovery, the pros and cons of each fore/aft balance state. They quickly find that skiing constantly fore, or aft, taxes the muscles more than skiing center balanced, because they feel their own muscles burn. They feel how the skis WANT to turn quickly and sharply when they're fore balanced, and how they want to run away from them and not turn well when they're aft.
When it's explained to students how these discoveries they've made translate into a plan for when to apply the various states of fore aft balance in various skiing situations, it makes perfect sense to them. They easily come to understand that skiing center balanced should be their go-to default fore/aft state, because they felt for themselves how relaxing it is, how well balanced they feel, and how well the ski performs when doing it. They can also see how moving fore at the start of a turn can be helpful in turns that need to begin with an aggressive direction change. You needn't worry about them misinterpreting that they should always ski fore, because part of what they've learned is how tiring it is to do that.
Development of these foundation fore/aft balance skills should begin in the earliest stages of learning. It helps the student develop a keen sense of base of the foot balance state awareness early on, which will serve them well all through their skiing life. With that awareness, they will always know how they're balanced, and can quickly adjusted when needed.
They should not only develop awareness, but also the ability to ski well in all states of fore/aft balance. With that skill versatility comes an expansion of their balance comfort zone, and their confidence on any terrain they encounter. No longer will they be intimidated by the fear that the slope they're on, or the speed they're traveling at, may throw them out of balance. Being able to ski comfortably in a wider range of balance states transforms their concept of what being "out of balance" means. When a skier's balance skills are broad, getting tossed on their tails, or onto their inside ski, doesn't mean they're out of balance. it just means they're in a different state of balance, one in which they're perfectly confident and relaxed performing in. In a calm manner, they can simply return to whatever state they desire, whenever they choose.
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| As for being on the sweet spot of the ski, I feel like I'm stacked up much better structurally to deal with changes in terrain too - far easier to use full ROM in joints for flexion/extension if your centre of mass is balanced at the midfoot, rather than in front of you? |
This is absolutely true. It's why skiers should consider being center balanced as their home base fore/aft balance state. But see my response above for the reasons it should not be the ONLY fore/aft state they learn to use.
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| Anyway, I'm arguing for debate's sake and to try and understand the other side of the coin, since I'm pretty CSIA brainwashed. Thanks for posting, FastMan. |
You're welcome, Dave. I hope I've had at least some success getting my message across. It's so important, on so many levels.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| FastMan wrote: |
| Mike3000 wrote: |
FastMan,
I would just like to say how grateful I am that you take the time to make your posts.
Thank you |
Mike, you're most welcome. As long as I can find the time, and I know folks like you are listening and benefiting, I'll continue. |
Well Fastman, here's one more folk who is listening with interest.
Am presently reading Witherell's "The Athletic Skier" and the content of this thread is bang on with what I read just last night - spot on advice.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
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Here's a question for everyone. Is the move to an aft posituion towards the end of the turn:
an 'active' move i.e. jetting the ski's forward ?
OR
a 'passive' move, the result of the dynamics\movements made to produce the desired turns ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Looking at it, he doesn't seem to be all that far foward throughout to me. He seems to be sitting back a bit in the first part of the turn, goes past the blue gate with his knees in front of his hips by a fair distance, and then comes out of it by standing up slightly, he then gets much further forward past the red gate. As an amateur observer that's what it looks like.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thought I'd post a comment I received in an Email today from a student of mine. It's very pertinent to this thread. She's in her second season of skiing, and started working on my Building Blocks DVD training program at the very end of last season. She's currently working on the Basic Balance DVD, which teaches the full range of fore/aft balance skills I've been talking about in this thread. I've never worked with her on snow, only via Email as she works through the DVDs on her own. Here it is:
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| I was also thrilled when I made a turn on the headwall and unexpectedly found myself way aft at full speed and way off balance and what would have been a spectacular fall last year was now simply an exercise in a smooth non panicked, relaxed shift of balance right back to center fore! Thank goodness for fore/aft balance drills! It actually felt pretty cool. It felt like what I have seen professional and world class skiers on tv do sometimes when they shift balance states! |
This is a great example of the confidence and balance comfort zone expansion that takes place when a skier focuses on developing a full spectrum of fore/aft balance skills. I'm thrilled for her, but I'm not surprised. I've seen the same transformation take place several 100's of times in my students over the years. This stuff works.
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| smithski wrote: |
| FastMan wrote: |
| Mike3000 wrote: |
FastMan,
I would just like to say how grateful I am that you take the time to make your posts.
Thank you |
Mike, you're most welcome. As long as I can find the time, and I know folks like you are listening and benefiting, I'll continue. |
Well Fastman, here's one more folk who is listening with interest.
Am presently reading Witherell's "The Athletic Skier" and the content of this thread is bang on with what I read just last night - spot on advice. |
Great piece of work, that book was, smithski. Warren was ahead of his time. I met and skied with him many years ago.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Iski, I'm glad to hear it's working for you too. Thanks for chiming in.
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Here's a question for everyone. Is the move to an aft posituion towards the end of the turn:
an 'active' move i.e. jetting the ski's forward ? |
david@mediacopy, I didn't comment on your question to the gallery, to let others have a go, but would be happy to discuss it with you. What do you think?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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FastMan, Shame no takers 
The thought came about following some work at our local plastic slope, doing some very slow small radius arcs with maximum control of speed. This gave plenty of time to feel the subtle shift from fore to aft during an arc.
I guess we'd have to ask the skier to be sure, but I have a suspicion that it's a 'passive' move - the result of the mechanics\movements required to make the arc etc. The skier is no doubt is in that position by choice, and will have excellent fore\aft balance skills and I sure could chose to ski the line reasonably centered if they so desired. Just not as fast.
I doubt he's aft due to an 'active' jet forward of the ski's - that's going to add time (to his movement pattern) and looking at the montage as I write this, the aft movement coincides with his transition. In the 2nd frame after blue gate, you can see the 'old' o/s flat and unloaded as he starts to extend against his old i/s ski - the start of his transition. The next frame, mid transition shows the main aft position.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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david@mediacopy, as his Centre of Mass is taking a shorter/more direct line down the hill than his feet will that cause/contribute to the fore/aft movement around his centred position?
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rob@rar, Good spot - makes sense. I was going to go on to say that if it is 'passive' then it would be less in evidence in say DH and much more evident in SL - but have not had chance to check out any montages to check.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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FAQ
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