 Poster: A snowHead
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Spyderman, glad you finally worked that out by reading what is on line
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimottaret, I think you should elaborate
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Megamum wrote: |
fatbob, Ah, I see - a different way of looking at it.
So is there an minimum qualication that means anyone can teach anywhere? Can you just turn up as an instructor - maybe pay a subscription for use of the mountain facilities and set yourself up as an independant private instructor. If not why not? I would have thought it you were relatively rich a good thing to do might be to travel to a location with your own private instructor for the week, but I get the distinct impression that this would not be permitted - or would it? What about if a skiing family has an instructor as a family member - can they instruct their family? It all seems very complicated for all you that are involved - at least that how it seems from an outside onlooker. |
In the US it's poaching to teach lessons somewhere that you're not an employee - and you can be prosecuted. At my home resort I can be suspended for teaching off the books, but I am allowed to ski with family and friends and give instruction as long as I'm not getting paid. Although I do need to be polite and let the director know when I might appear to be teaching in my own time.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
Jamesc, I believe that to be the problem with CSIA, being based East coast they don't seem to understand that there are real mountains in BC. I was shocked that when I asked about the first aid requirement when I did my CSIA, I was told there wasn't a need and I should just call the safety patrol in case of emergency.  Might work in the east, but your client could be dead before they arrive in BC. |
Is it not the same in the USA? Nothing to do with 'real' mountains as far as I know, more about potential litigation if any First Aid mistakes are made (or percieved to be made).
| skinanny wrote: |
| In the US it's poaching to teach lessons somewhere that you're not an employee - and you can be prosecuted. At my home resort I can be suspended for teaching off the books, but I am allowed to ski with family and friends and give instruction as long as I'm not getting paid. Although I do need to be polite and let the director know when I might appear to be teaching in my own time. |
Yes I noticed over in California they were very strict. I guess in Europe (including Scotland) there's more open access to the mountains in as far as they aren't owned and run by a single company - am I correct in assuming that's the pattern of ownership in the USA? At that point it's then down to the laws of the country concerned as to who can actually teach and with what qualifications so at one extreme we have the UK situation where, as I understand it, there are no rules at all so unqualified instructors could sell their 'services' with no legal come back at say the Sscottish ski areas. Goodness know where that would leave them in the event of an accident but I have heard stories of some less reputable ski schools in Aviemore hiring unqualified people (not the official Ski and Snowboard school bsed on the mountain I hasten to add). At the other end of the scale we have the situation in France where only those with L4 (ISTD) can work independantly but you can work at other levels as a trainee having passed certain tests (test techique being the local test).
However it's not necessarily as transparent as it may appear elsewhere. Take Austria where on paper you can work for a ski school with a BASI L2, however I've heard stories of people applying for jobs and being told they needed all sorts of local diplomas (language from Saltzburg university IIRC in one case) before they can work, one friend had the goalposts constantly changed after he told them he had his Anwarter and he eventually gave up. Other Austrian schools, Mayerhofen is one example that's been mentioned to me, are absolutely fine with lower level BASI qualifications and make no further demands. Then we have the working independantly bit, as an individual I'm sure it's fine but ever wondered why there are so few (I don't know of any actually) non-local ski schools based in Austrian resorts? I was told by a mountain guide in St Anton, he was Austrian, that this was because the existing ski schools 'stitch' things up with the lift companies, there's a little rule which I think may apply across Austria that states that in order to set up a ski school you have to have a designated meeting place on the piste. All fine and dandy so anyone qualified can set up their own independant ski school on paper but try asking a lift company anywhere in Austria for a meeting place and you'll apparently have no luck!
One word of warning about the above, this is what I've been told by a few people about the Austrian situation and I have no reason to doubt them, if anyone knows better though and wants to put me right I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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roga, I should have said relatively flatland of course - I suspect there's a reason BASI's AGM was held in Hemel not unrelated to the proportion of its members south of the border. As someone whose formative skiing experiences were at Glencoe, Cairngorm, Glenshee perhaps a ski in Scotland module ought to be a BASI requirement.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| roga wrote: |
| Spyderman wrote: |
| Jamesc, I believe that to be the problem with CSIA, being based East coast they don't seem to understand that there are real mountains in BC. I was shocked that when I asked about the first aid requirement when I did my CSIA, I was told there wasn't a need and I should just call the safety patrol in case of emergency. Might work in the east, but your client could be dead before they arrive in BC. |
Is it not the same in the USA? Nothing to do with 'real' mountains as far as I know, more about potential litigation if any First Aid mistakes are made (or percieved to be made).
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I think Spyderman was more refering to the mountain safety aspect, Trying to do a course covering "Off piste" Skiing and Skinning/Snow shoeing when most of the hills out east are so small/commercial there is no real off piste, Other then rocky/icy glades!
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fatbob, I don't know the exact numbers, but I would imagine the proportion of Scotish BASI instructors is greater than you'd expect when you'd look at the relative populations of Soctland and England. Holding the AGM at Hemel is partly down to accessibility. A large number of BASI members live outside the UK.
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roga, you are right that Austrian ski school law is rather complicated and things are tricky for foreign instructors who do not hold Austrian qualifications. It is all a bit protectionist. The law has recently changed/is changing to allow independents to operate without a ski school office, meeting point etc so it will make it legal for those who are fully qualified (Diplomskilehrer-Skiführer) to operate. I'm not sure if this is the case Austria wide or just Salzburgerland and Tirol.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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roga, there is no first aid requirement in any PSIA qualification - we call ski patrol when we have a problem. However, I think USSA has different requirements which is weird because most race coaching is done in resort too, although I suppose because the racers are on the hill early maybe ski patrol isn't available in some areas.
Ski resorts in the US are privately owned and operated for the most part - sometimes it's on national/state park land via lease. Of course, you can go into the back country, but that's at your own risk and AFAIK there are no regulations governing any guiding.
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there is talk of basi doing conversion courses for CSIA members who wish to work outside canada and get the ISIA stamp
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This is just rumour, there are no plans to offer individual modules to CSIAs to get the ISIA stamp. If a CSIA would like to convert to BASI they need to go back one level - so a L3 would need to take the BASI L3. They can apply for exemptions from some modules should they feel they have qualifications that justify an exemption - I think this would exclude tech and teach.
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the "mountain safety modules" that BASI now uses to qualify for ISIA was adoped from CSIA.
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Actually the BASI Mountain Safety module was adapted from the French. Before BASI had it's own course, members who wanted to get their Equivalence had to attend the French course. BASI introduced their own course in the mid- 90s.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hi folks,
This is my first post to the forums. I joined because I wanted to share an update in our CSIA Ski Pro magazine that's relevant to this topic...
It appears that the CSIA has a plan to allow the level 3 instructors to regain their ISIA stamp.
"...according to the new criteria for obtaining the ISIA stamp, the holder of the certification needed to have a minimum number of required hours of education and two mandatory modules: mountain awareness and first aid. ... As a result of this decision... level 3s were prevented from obtaining ...the ISIA stamp. Following this decision, the Education Committee started working on a strategy to bring back the lost privilege for its members. We have since made progress and are pleased to announce that a newly structured Level 3 with an International Standard will be developed to meet the ISIA minimum requirements. In addition to the Level 3 certification, to obtain the ISIA recognition a CSIA member will be required to have additional education modules. We can already identify two of these modules which will be mandatory: mountain awareness and first aid. The new structured status will also include an equivalency system that will consider comparable education. The remaining requirements are yet to be determined and will be posted on the www.snowpro.com site this fall." (p. 8, Ski Pro Mag)
So currently the level 3s only lack mountain awareness and first aid training. First aid should be a straightforward component for the CSIA to add. I'm interested in seeing if mountain awareness is available across Canada or only in BC/Alberta/Quebec. I'm from Ontario, and we simply had no ungroomed terrain, let alone off-piste or avalanche danger.
That said, the level 4 instructors kept their stamp. However, the proportion of level 4s is tiny compared to 3s. I don't recall what it is--would be curious if anyone can find out.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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metaphor_, welcome to snowHeads.
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