 Poster: A snowHead
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| Thornyhill wrote: |
| The basic policy doesn't cover it. They added it to our policy for and extra 14 quid a a year, providing we were 'within the boundaries of the resort' |
So how does that work in Europe then?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
So how does that work in Europe then?
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that's the whole point of my discussion with Dogtag. They just kept repeating that, and I just kept telling them it wasn't a European concept, and then they said well, it's all about not skiing against local advice and I said well what if there's a level 1 or 2 avalanche warning and they said oh!!! if there's an avalanche warning you definitely wouldn't be covered and I said there's always an avalanche warning and it might help if I speak to someone who knows something about skiing. They promised me underwriters would ring back. They didn't. Given that only a small minority of UK based skiers ski in N America it's very irritating. The people I spoke to were polite and friendly and utterly clueless.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, My worry would be a European boundaries are effectively the piste poles, so they have a massive get out should you be 'outside' those poles.....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Dear pam w, I am amazed that you haven't got bored with typing out that story, or perhaps you just cut and paste it from the last time you posted it.
For anyone else interested this is Dogtags view of their underwriters position (The same firm as some other ski ploicys)
| Quote: |
Q. Do you cover Off Piste Skiing and what is the definition of Off Piste?
A. The generally accepted understanding of off-piste (or backcountry) skiing or boarding means 'going out of bounds', i.e. outside the resort boundary (if there is a boundary) or simply off the marked pistes if within the resort area. If you are going out of bounds or outside marked areas of the resort, we recommend you do so with a fully qualified local guide because, in our view, you will be taken to the best areas and you'll have a higher degree of comfort concerning your safety. However, we do not insist that you take a guide, you are insured for off-piste without a guide provided that you are not going alone or going against advice. And remember, even some areas within a resort may be considered out of bounds because they are hazardous. In most parts of North America, going out of bounds contravenes local law and you may, at best have your lift pass confiscated or worse, face arrest and have an overnight stay courtesy of the Sherriff's office. Normally there is a physical fence with warning signs so you shouldn't be in any doubt.
It is your responsibility to ensure that on any particular day you are aware of and obey local advice, information and instructions given by the resort authorities and that you obey any signs and information you encounter on the mountain - the source of this information will vary resort to resort and country to country and it is your responsibility to find out. If a section is marked 'closed' there will be a very good reason for it (e.g. high avalanche danger) and ignoring such signs or advice may invalidate your cover. You should be aware that under the terms of cover, needless self-exposure to peril except in an endeavour to save human life may invalidate your cover.
Obviously, you must never ski off-piste alone.
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http://www.dogtag.co.uk/faqs.aspx#1332
Perhaps other snowHeads would care to post the definition of off piste from thier insurance policy here.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Dear pam w, I am amazed that you haven't got bored with typing out that story? (perhaps you never phoned any other ski insurer) presumably you just cut and paste it from the last time you posted it.
For anyone else interested, this is Dogtags view of their underwriters position (The same firm as some other ski policys) on what constitutes off piste throughout the world (Not just France or the US)
| Quote: |
Q. Do you cover Off Piste Skiing and what is the definition of Off Piste?
A. The generally accepted understanding of off-piste (or backcountry) skiing or boarding means 'going out of bounds', i.e. outside the resort boundary (if there is a boundary) or simply off the marked pistes if within the resort area. If you are going out of bounds or outside marked areas of the resort, we recommend you do so with a fully qualified local guide because, in our view, you will be taken to the best areas and you'll have a higher degree of comfort concerning your safety. However, we do not insist that you take a guide, you are insured for off-piste without a guide provided that you are not going alone or going against advice. And remember, even some areas within a resort may be considered out of bounds because they are hazardous. In most parts of North America, going out of bounds contravenes local law and you may, at best have your lift pass confiscated or worse, face arrest and have an overnight stay courtesy of the Sherriff's office. Normally there is a physical fence with warning signs so you shouldn't be in any doubt.
It is your responsibility to ensure that on any particular day you are aware of and obey local advice, information and instructions given by the resort authorities and that you obey any signs and information you encounter on the mountain - the source of this information will vary resort to resort and country to country and it is your responsibility to find out. If a section is marked 'closed' there will be a very good reason for it (e.g. high avalanche danger) and ignoring such signs or advice may invalidate your cover. You should be aware that under the terms of cover, needless self-exposure to peril except in an endeavour to save human life may invalidate your cover.
Obviously, you must never ski off-piste alone.
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http://www.dogtag.co.uk/faqs.aspx#1332
Perhaps other snowHeads would care to post the definition of off piste from their insurance policy here.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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As and when I have all the relevant info I will post on the off piste insurance thread that is already running the details which many companies are providing for the up coming season. Sorry, not ready to go into details yet. Still a few dragging there feet. Not sure we need two threads for the same thing.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=60076&start=80
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snowcrazy, agreed, let's have the off piste stuff on the other thread you've linked to so we can keep track, this one was orginally started up about another matter anyway. I'm sure most people would be happy with that. 
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Boredsurfing, I don't mind how many times people repeat their experiences with insurers. It's a minefield, and the more information that is disseminated the better.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hurtle, I agree this really does need to be discussed. With the changes in attitude of insurance companies going on right now we all really need to read the small print. But it would be easier if we all posted in the same thread so that we can follow what everyone is saying more easily.
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nick0861, it seems to me they are in breach of ICOBS 8 and TCF 6. PM me full details, i'll see what i can do t speed things up for you, often a complaint letter demonstrating that you know your rights resolves things very quickly.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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snobunni,
Hmmm, maybe ?
We have been on the periphery of numerous claims of this type when clients have had to rush home half way through their holiday, failed to turn up for the booked holiday, etc.
I think (may be wrong) that this case will revolve around whether the person instigating the insurance contract could have been "reasonably expected to have disclosed" that they (or their spouse) had an aged grandparent who may or may not have had an illness, condition or symptoms that could have led to the belief that…..etc, etc, (it’s a long list).
I understand that the nature of internet forums is to be against the big bad Co (TO, Insurance Co, Airline, etc). But sometimes …… As you very rarely get full disclosure in an internet forum, it may be the case that no payment is due – of course it may be that a payment is due…. How are we to know?
Oh and the title of this thread, not just a tad one sided ?, closed statement ?, emotional ?, pre-judgmental ?, etc, etc
See
http://fsahandbook.info/FSA/handbook/LI/2007/2007_67.pdf
Specifically
8.1.2 R
A rejection of a consumer policyholder’s claim is unreasonable, except
where there is evidence of fraud, if it is for:
(1) non-disclosure of a fact material to the risk which the policyholder
could not reasonably be expected to have disclosed;
or
(2) non-negligent misrepresentation of a fact material to the risk;
or
(3) breach of warranty or condition unless the circumstances of the
claim are connected to the breach and unless (for a pure protection
contract):
I, like most people, have argued with insurance Co’s in the past so I do sympathise and empathise with nick0861 but without full knowledge of all the material facts (which in this type of arena, you're only ever going to get one side) it’s not really possible to give any other advice.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Which is why Snobunni has asked for further details. As she works in the industry she is probably fully conversant with the rules and regs. She offered me some good advice and assistance when part of our claim was refused after hubby's accident, and she was correct then.
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nick0861, if your insurer is not treating your fairly, you can complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service here: www.fos.org.uk
The FOS sometimes decides that even though an insurance company might be able to rely on the Ts and Cs to not pay out, it is not "fair" for it to do so, so it orders the insurance company to pay the claim/reconsider the claim etc. Worth a try.
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You know it makes sense.
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I fully understand having to declare a fact that maybe material to the policy holder having to cancel or curtail if you had knowledge of it, but that assumes that your nearest and dearest disclose their state of health to you in the first place. Not everyone's relatives do! So what would happen if a relative who is close enough to you to make you cancel if they were ill or died, just didn't tell you they were ill? How can you prove you didn't know?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Where's the spam button when you need one?!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| David Deverson wrote: |
Hi,
Travel Insurance is the last thing many of us think about before a vacation. You feel relief once the trip is paid for. Then you start saving the "spending money." By the time, you decide where to go, when to go, where to stay, which flight or cruise to take, you just don't remember "travel insurance" and this could be a huge mistake for all of us. If any one has more comments here can share with us.
Thanks
David Deverson |
A great lesson in how not to use social networking 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Boredsurfing, The Insure and Go Policy states for Winter Sports
| Quote: |
Winter sports (see the table for dangerous activities on pages
18, 19, 20 and 21 for details of cover)
Skiing and snowboarding, off-piste skiing and snowboarding except
in areas considered to be unsafe by resort management |
In the Table referred to - it is listed as an activity which is covered, you don't have to tell them and there is no additional premium (provided you have Winter Sports cover)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It is always worth remembering that it is not an Insurance Companies job to protect or help you.
Quite the opposite.
Their primary objective, and legal obligation, is to maximise the profits for their share-holders.
It really is legalised theft.
Personaly, I'd reccomend the BMC, especially if you need off-piste cover.
Ok its not cheap, but it is very very good.
Its the only one that really is internationaly recognised, no messing about with faxes from hospitals to insurers.
I think the only thing I'm not allowed to do is explore new peaks over 6000m in Antartica, or something like that !
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Wayne, true, but that reasonable expectation is the key, and can only be determined by knowing the full facts.
The delays mentioned suggest a breach of TCF principle 6 in that from the version of events posted here it appears that rather than repudiating the claim outright they are creating barriers to making the claim.
Alan McGregor, how come insurers arent allowed to make a living? Why is it insurance is legalised theft but other pure service providers arent? Not just service providers, how about supermarkets coining it in from every direction, exploiting suppliers and maximising profit from their customers, whilst paying minimum wages. Sorry but all commercial enterprises exist to turn a profit. If you feel that way about insurance i assume you cover your vehicle for the minimum liability cover required and stand the rest yourself, afterall you wouldnt want to be funding crime now would you. Oh and what about those insurers that are mutuals?
Sorry but its been a long day and i actually take pride in my job and word hard to protect my clients interests lol
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Nationwide recently wrote to say that they were giving me free travel insurance with my Flexaccount. Wintersports cover is extra. I rang to ask them about it. The policy was better than my current one in most respects - higher limits, lower excesses, and they would not refuse to cover my wife, as many other insurers had because of cancer history. But the Wintersports cover was for skiing only "on compacted snow prepared for the purpose."
One of the questions insurers ask, if you initiate a claim, is whether the risk is covered by any other policy. If you have more than one policy that covers the same risk, the insurers will share the liability, and the claimant will be required to initiate a simultaneous claim with all of them, or recover only a fraction of the loss. That would be rather burdensome, as well as seeming poor value - you haven't paid a fraction of the premium. Having decided that Nationwide's policy was not acceptable, I told the man in the call centre that I would like to repudiate their free insurance. He said he did not know how to process that, and that if I never made a claim there would be no contract between us anyway. He might be right, but I am not sure. It would seem odd that an insurer could foist a policy on you that you did not want. Does anyone have a view on this?
I have thought up to now that the thing I most wanted to insure was medical expenses. These days I ski almost exclusively in Switzerland. There, if you have an EHIC, all you have to pay is 92SF for medical treatment of any duration in a public hospital. (A very good hospital, I thought.) So that is hardly worth insuring. I believe you can buy a mountain rescue insurance from the ambulance companies. The only thing that stops me giving up travel insurance altogether is the risk of wiping out a third party on the mountain and being sued for millions.
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planeurge, you can take out specific cover for rescue/third party and the difference between what is covered and the extra with Rega/Glacier insurance in CH or Carte Neige in Fr that covers you in all of Europe. Cost about 55 Euro/Chf per season. If you go to my group link below you can find all the links you need.
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Thanks. I'll look at it. What you suggest, plus Glacier, plus Nationwide's free cover (without the Wintersports add-on) might make a suitable package.
Oh, and apologies for posting here. I see that the other, similar thread would have been more appropriate.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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hi all thanks for the various offers of help - apologies for the delay in coming back to you but i have been in sardinia for a couple of weeks
snobunnie - i am going to try them again today - if i still have no progress i will pm you - thanks
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Oh and the title of this thread, not just a tad one sided ?, closed statement ?, emotional ?, pre-judgmental ?, etc, etc
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what a weird thing to say - of course its going to be one sided - i am hardly going to be representing the side of the crappy insurance company am I?
If people wish to book with them its no skin off my nose - as a snow heads forummer i felt i should share my experience so that others may know what to expect.
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I had "super " insurance with BUPA, including winter sports etc. My daughter got/developed Streptococcus pneumoniae on the first day, prior to the holiday she had a mild temprature, helped by calpol for the night before we flew out. The medical centre in Les gets was very good, and spotted things were not right, and sent us to hospital, where my daughter , 2 years old, was in A&E 6 hours, then admitted for 5 days. The French medical team was fantastic, and the nursing staff could not have been nicer, especially buying all the children on the ward presents on Christmas day.
The point of this was although my wife and I tag teamed between us from Les Gets to Thonlon les Bains every day, to spend time with our other child, we were advised that our holiday had not been ruined and as a good will gesture £90 was sent to us for one of the taxi journeys. My daughter was too ill to travel, according to the French doctors, so according to BUPA, We should have dropped her at the hospital and returned 5 days later to pick her up. Her holiday was not ruined, we did not have to go and see her and should have spent the week skiing, according to them.
Thank god we have good quality insurance!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have a Royal Bank of Scotland Royalties Gold account. My Wife's Gran died at 98 and she had been in Hospital.
No questions, no worries, they paid out immediately. Worth the £12/month.
Also a recomendation for Churchill home insurance. We had a leak and the downstaird neighbour's roof fell in.
Phoned them and they said. Here is a reference number, call the other insurance and quote this. Tell them to deal with us.
Got a letter immediately to say they are dealling with it. Then later got a letter to say it was settled (my fault in Scottish law).
The Neighbour was with Endsleigh (Zurich), paid 3x what I did for the same house and got tons of hastle.
Credit where it is due.
cheers
Bob
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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hi all
final update - after 6.5 months we have had our insurance through 
worth all of the aggro in the end but there is no way i will be using them again
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Hmm, we too have RBS Royalties Gold, had a long debate with them over the loss of a brand new (unworn) pair of ski boots one year and then a fight over £120taxi fare back to La Plagne after wife had dislocated shoulder, they thought we should have waited 4 hours for a bus. Medical Centre wrote us a letter to say they had offered private ambulance at the cost of an arm and a leg, RBS finally accepted we were mitigating los by getting taxi. Grrr.
But main point of post was that I have just noticed that RBS has a definition of hazardous Activities that includes glacier skiing and thus excludes cover. This seems odd, I am way more likely to injure myself throwing myself down the Hara Kiri in Mayrhofen than I am cruising down a swooshy blue in Soelden. Also, how does one work out whether you are still on the glacier as opposed to snow?
Will enquire of RBS as off to Soelden 12 April and I suspect will be on the glaciers a lot.
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You know it makes sense.
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| michaelminhatkinson wrote: |
On another note... Please all make sure you read the fine print for the skiing part of your insurance. The Ts&Cs have changed for quite a few and are a bit more stringent if not, now excluding various things.
Some things I have noticed on some insurances:
- not covered in snow fun parks
- not covered off piste, even "between" marked pistes
- not covered for "aviation" repatriation but covered for land repatriation
- not covered for mountain rescue costs but repatriation from town/ village hospital covered
- not covered for "racing" including speed traps which is constituted as racing
- not covered for x days missed skiing due to either bad weather or x % closed pistes as "recoverable from resort ski pass ticket company"
These are just a few I have seen and on asking, most will in fact throw these in for free, but you have to ask!!! Others will cover all/ some for just a small fee.
It is very worth while checking, as if it is not there on the policy as included, assume it is excluded!
Please be wary this season!!! |
This. Please, please read the policy documents available online at quote stage, people, not just the key facts, and don't just choose on price.
As someone who works in the insurance industry (albeit not retail/consumer stuff), cheap does not mean good - in fact, it usually means the opposite.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| NickyJ wrote: |
| Oh and should I be contacting them to tell them I have been referred? I don't actually know what is wrong with it, just it is agony if I have any lateral force applied to it. She said it could be a strained tendon taking a while to heal or it could be cartelidge problem. On the plus side I have private cover so there is a slim chance if it is cartelidge that I should be good to go, if it is a strained tendon again it should be healed in time. |
Generally travel insurance does not cover conditions that are not yet diagnosed. If you have registered the issue with your doctor and are going through tests ats, then I don't think that condition will be covered by any policy.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Awwww bless, Fwed's come back to us after almost 4 years!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Absolutely essential to have mountain rescue insurance. I just got the bill for my helicopter rescue after broken leg: €4,860.40 (which I have sent on to my insurance).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've just come across this. When my Gran died two years ago, I had to cancel my ski holiday - insurance company wouldn't pay out and basically told me "we don't cover Grandparents as this is not immediate family".
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FAQ
