 Poster: A snowHead
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Chamrousse - is an ideal resort to boost any lack of confidence
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Try La Plagne.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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bluebull, I'm the person who started off the "Cautious to Confident" weeks that others above have mentioned. Yes I admit I am biased - but of course it's not the only option, far from it, but I do think the trip would suit your needs. The idea is that the more cautious (for whatever reason - health, nerves, age etc) have a daily 2-hour lesson in a group of maximum 4 people of similar ability. This is less intense than private 1:1 lessons and far better than lessons in large groups where you can find yourself unable to keep up if the others are naturals/thrill seekers. The level/pace is matched to the needs of the individuals and the aim is to develop solid skills that we learn to trust and thus our confidence grows. Friends/family of those taking the course play an important role in supporting us outside of lessons, helping to nurture the confidence and practise what has been learned but there is ample time too for the friends/family members to "pal up" and go off for some fun skiing at their own pace/level too. There have also been special focus "clinics" organised on an adhoc basis for them, eg steeps/bumps.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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bluebull, How about Courchevel 1850 or 1650? Quality private instruction is available with English speaking instructors such as New Generation or some of the independent instructors.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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D G Orf, I have to disagree with the suggestion of Wengen for a timid / nervous / beginner. It's certainly an excellent place once you're comfortable with steeper pitches but even the piste-map only claims a few runs marked blue - IMV and most of those are less than ideal. Arven is short and has that steep, usually icy drop off to the lift station; the tracks from KS to Brandegg and from KS to Allmend, etc are dull, physically hard and too narrow for practicing turns (if you're capable of making short turns on tracks like those, you probably wouldn't feel the need to stick to blues IMV). There is the blue run from KS to the bottom of Wixi which is gentle but there's not much else - even the runs from the top of the Mannlichen cablecar start with a steep pitch or a narrow track. Getting from Mannlichen to KS involves several steep pitches.
[ Prepares to accept without complaint any accusations of being a wimp / incompetent ]
juliad Ideal for anyone on a tight budget 
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And I'd disagree with SMALLZOOKEEPER's somewhat insistent suggestion of La Plagne  Yes, the slopes would be fine if there were no people on them but when we were there they were some of the busiest pistes I've been on - not ones to boost frail confidence. And we weren't there half-term.
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| Quote: |
juliad Ideal for anyone on a tight budget
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I thought the OP said he was considering private lessons? Obviously, if budget is more limited, group lessons are a more cost effective alternative. For confidence building, I would recommend opting for an English speaking instructor. Courchevel can be expensive but there are different accommodation options to suit various budgets. I was just making a recommendation based on the availability of good quality instruction and suitable terrain.
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We found that some of the runs in Montgenevre were pretty flattering, and almost empty in January - the only problem was getting back to the bottom if we mistimed and coincided with classes returning as there is a bit of a bottleneck. And there's plenty of harder stuff around for the more confident/adventurous, including a couple of ski/board cross runs, which amused my 10yo son .
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, yes it's a generalisation, and I believe it will stand up to careful scrutiny. €30 is remarkably cheap for an hour (as is €44) but I'm as sure as I can be that the average across the countries will verify the assumption.
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Perhaps then, try La Plagne.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, perhaps Belle Plagne
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm going to support the call(s) for you to go to La Plagne too and urge you to avoid Serre Chevalier like the plague.
The less people that go there the better as far as I'm concerned. It means more sunshine, fresh snow and empty slopes for me. Especially in January. When I'm going.
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| Quote: |
€30 is remarkably cheap for an hour (as is €44) but I'm as sure as I can be that the average across the countries will verify the assumption.
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I'm sure that les saisies doesn't have hugely cheaper private lessons than other smaller French resorts - which are, of course, the vast majority of the resorts in the country. It's not that small, either, with 185km of lift-linked runs. I quoted the ESI price but the ESF prices http://www.esf-lessaisies.com/www-lecons_particulieres-37-ski-FR.html are much the same (naturally). Even if your guess about averages is correct, it's not very helpful. One doesn't pay the "average", after all. People are a bit prone to make sweeping generalisations about "France" on the basis of a few weeks in big Brit-packed resorts.
For a nervous beginner the only point in going to a big resort is because of having a particular instructor. I hand-picked one of the instructors I know here for my exceptionally nervous daughter in law (only skied once, 10 years ago, damaged her ACL, reconstruction op, now petrified). It was a great success but there are other instructors here I'd avoid for someone like that - but would happily book for a boisterous 17 year old.
What rob@rar says is dead right - pick the instructor first, don't go somewhere where you can't get advice on individual instructors (I've had some excellent instruction from ESF - in La Plagne, actually - but also some fairly duff instruction).
I think La Plagne might be a bit too huge, and open, and confusing, and intimidating for that reason (not because there aren't nice gentle runs). Somewhere where it's a bit more intimate, plenty of trees, you can sort of "get to know" it and feel at home, is good. Out of the Les Saisies bowl there are three major lifts up, and there are gentle (green) ways down from all of them. It's not possible to go up a lift and find yourself somewhere where you have no choice but to ski something scary.
I think Les Deux Alpes is a bit intimidating, actually - and I wouldn't recommend it apart from that particular week but the focus of the skiing and standard of instruction and cameraderie/mutual support would make all the difference. And Mr B could have loads of exciting off-piste adventures in La Grave.
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You know it makes sense.
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| ajl wrote: |
I'm going to support the call(s) for you to go to La Plagne too and urge you to avoid Serre Chevalier like the plague.
The less people that go there the better as far as I'm concerned. It means more sunshine, fresh snow and empty slopes for me. Especially in January. When I'm going. |
And me !!!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, I appreciate that you are batting for France and that's fair enough, but please take the blinkers off. Skiing in France is more expensive than skiing in Italy by almost any measure you care to mention, and very few people who have been to both will be able to argue. Over the last 10 years I've been to Trentino, Cervinia x 2, Sauze d'oulx, Sestriere, Meribel, Courchevel, Tignes x 3, Val d'Isere and La Clusaz. I can say with absolute certainty that each French trip has been more expensive all in all than Italy. Yes, I've been (mostly) to the large resorts but that's where the vast majority of people go (for very good reasons) so it's a fair example.
I'm posting without agenda, I don't favor either France or Italy, both have their good and bad points. The original post asked for advice and one of the major criteria they stated was tuition/instruction, and on a cost basis Italy is cheaper. It's up to the poster to make their own choice based on whatever other factors they choose, but you are being misleading, at the very least disingenuous, when you suggest that tuition in France is generally the same cost, or cheaper, than in Italy.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Also, the Italians groom their pistes, and the French don't.
Because the French are lazy.
Actually, so are the Italians.
So how does that work then?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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and the food's better
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dr John, can you recommend an instructor in Italy who will be especially good with nervous clients?
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rob@rar, nope. Couldn't recommend one for France either*. I was just pointing out the difference in price, and inadvertently awakening the spirit of Joan of Arc in PamW.
* that's a lie now I think about it. Derek of Ski Marmalade in Meribel is an excellent coach, I used him for some steep and deep tuition last season. I'm not the nervous type, but I have no doubt he'd be an excellent coach whatever your requirements.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Dr John, I think you're being a bit harsh on Pam. Seems to me that she's doing no more than advocating what she knows, which seems to be a perfectly reasonable thing to do. It's then up to the OP and anyone else with an interest in the topic to sift through all the advice and reach their own conclusion. For me the key to success for the OP will be the quality of instruction and I can recommend a few instructors who I know will do a great job (such as easiski in LDA, Stevie Down in Courchevel, Steve Angus in Val d'Isere, and others). The fact that those instructors are based in France is not due to some Francophile tendency on my part (I don't have any such tendency) but simply a reflectin that I know these people well enough to recommend them. Should I, or Pam or anyone else who is recommending France, bite our tongues because it doesn't fit with the France-bashing theme we see here from time to time?
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Dr John,  nice try. You made an unsustainable generalisation which I was able to challenge. And here's another
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the Italians groom their pistes, and the French don't.
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Tosh. In this particular part of France, which I know well, it would be more reasonable to complain that they groom too much, and that more pistes ought to be left ungroomed more often, to provide more of a challenge. Off the top of my head I can only think of three pistes (all black) which are irregularly groomed here, and allowed to get mogully. Almost the entire area is groomed every night.
I haven't done much skiing in Megeve but the bit I did, the pistes were like bowling greens.
Why don't people just stick to something they know about? I wouldn't dream of making generalisations about Italian or Austrian skiing on the basis of my limited experience in those countries, indeed I wouldn't generalise about "French skiing" either, because there is really no such thing. Skiing in the Espace Killy, or the Three Valleys, has absolutely nothing in common with skiing in, say, Areches-Beaufort, Les Contamines or Notre Dame de Bellecombe.
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There are more paedophiles in France than in Italy.
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rob@rar, I wasn't aiming to be harsh or personally critical, I just like to see a balanced view. I'm not France-bashing in the slightest, far from it, I love it and will heartily recommend many places I've been to. But let's not pretend that it's cheap. The latest published figures showing a very sharp drop in visitors to France, as well as the many stories circulating about TO's pleading with bar/hotel/restaurant owners to set realistic prices will bear my view out. The fact that many places also didn't pass on last years food and drink tax reduction to the customers also speaks volumes.
I go to France with open eyes, and an open wallet, knowing full well that I am making a Faustian pact by paying through the nose for basics (€1 to have a pee in the same restaurant I've just paid €20 for a plate of chips and a small beer? Take a bow Val d'Isere) while having massive ski areas and fast efficient lift systems to play in.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Can we at least all agree that we hate the Germans?
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and the Dutch
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Dr John, how i it possible for every single poster to have a balanced view? How many people have in-depth knowledge of multiple resorts and countries sufficient to give detailed, balanced advice? Or maybe it's best if we all chip in with whatever knowledge that we have any then allow people to make up their own mind?
As for price comparisons in my limited experience there are certain things that cost more in France, particularly eating and drinking, than they do in Austria or Switzerland (haven't been to Italy recently enough to comment). So if that's important to you and you have a tight budget avoid the big French resorts (and probably the big resorts in each country you might be thinking of). But if it's not a big deal (it isn't to me as I don't spend that much money in mountain restaurants and rarely have more than a beer or two in the evening) I wouldn't let it bother you. BTW, I don't think the OP has specified the lowest price possible as a factor in his decision. While there are differences in food and apres costs I don't think the differences in price in things such as lift passes or accommodation is that great if you compare like with like (big resort with big resort, for example).
Yes, the cost of instruction with the British ski schools in France is generally higher than other ski schools, but in my experience you get what you pay for unless you have a worthwhile personal recommendation for a named instructor who works for a cheaper school. I have willingly and knowingly paid a premium for the instruction I've had with the British ski schools over the last decade because I think they provide value for money.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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FWIW, I have 12+ seasons experience of living and working in the Alps. I've skied and instructed in a number of locations and there are pros and cons to all the resorts. My personal preference is for small resorts off the beaten track in countries other than France.
My suggestion to the OP was based on the fact that there are a number of ski schools and independents located in the Courchevel area who would be an ideal choice to provide confidence building tuition for his OH. I agree with rob@rar that decent instruction is the key to an enjoyable ski holiday given the requirement outlined in the OP.
IMO if you want good quality instruction then it is best to go to resorts with recommended ski schools/instructors rather than choose a destination and then have issues in finding suitable tuition.
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Red Leon, well I've known a number of beginners who have had no problems on those blues, to be fair a few of them are narrow in places but where they are narrow they tend to be very gentle at the same time, the steep section from KS to Brandegg can be avoided by taking a left hand fork and following the road arround, quite honestly there are only two areas that I think are not so great for nervous beginners, the straight section of blue between the road and stream below Almend halt on the way back to Wengen, (it can get very busy with lots of fast skiers arround the end of the day) and the short stretch of blue on the Mannlichen as it runs across the base of the first slope (because you need to be aware of faster skiers coming at you from above).
I took some complete beginners from KS to Brandegg on their first mornings run (never having been on real snow before) after they'd had as little as 6 hours dry slope instruction and they loved it, ok it took them over 90 mins to do a run I can do in well under 10mins but you expect that.
The advantage you have is that the Blue runs arround Wengen particularly Mannlichn and Brandegg tend to be very quiet which makes it much easier for a timid person, they are also reasonably long Brandegg is about 5km and Kl Scheidegg to Wengen is arround 7km
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I feel sorry for the OP.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| scotia wrote: |
| I feel sorry for the OP. |
Good point, well argued.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
| Val D'Isere is the only place I've had to pay for a pee. |
Much as I love France, loads of places charge for a pee. Usually 40 or 50c though, I've never paid a whole euro!
It really annoys me when our group have paid many, many euros for lunch and given a tip on top. I make a mental note and don't go there again on principle.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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maggi, en France, Servis Compris. Why do you tip? You only need to add a couple of euros if you feel the need.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Dr John wrote: |
| and the Dutch |
leave the Dutch out of it, I'm a Dutchman's Aunty.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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D G Orf, Welcome back! Where have you been!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| maggi, en France, Servis Compris. Why do you tip? |
I just do. Doesn't everyone? When people leave their table they leave a tip - my observation. I wouldn't if I knew the mean so-and-sos charged for the loo but unfortunately that's usually something you find out on the way out afterwards  . It's not the money really, it's the principle. It's a meanness of spirit.
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Hi bluebull,
I'd second the advice here that La Plagne is a pretty good place for a three week skiier, whilst still having plenty to keep you interested - but then I'm biased because I live there
In terms of ski schools Oxygene (ask for Jenny or Euan) or Reflex in Plagne centre are both good schools. Another option is to consider group lessons but with a ski school that limit group size. Evolution 2 based in Les Coches offer group lessons with a max of 8 and they balance their groups their groups really well too so she'd end up with people wanting to take things gently too - http://www.evolution2.com/federation/default.htm. They also do good private lesssons too.
If you're thinking La Plagne and you've got questions about the pistes/ski schools etc feel free to message me.
Best wishes,
Heather
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Don't go to La Plagne! I have an OH very similar to yours and La Plagne scared her witless!! La Plagne starts at Blue and some of their blues for someone who is nervous might as well be Reds to them.
I don't know about Megeve, but if money is no object I would recommend Courchevel. We also found the area around Arc 2000 in Les Arcs a nice area to ski for someone more nervous.
As an aside, since you live so close to Hemel you might want to get your OH onto a confidence building course with Rob and Scott at http://www.insideoutskiing.com Thats what she is doing and hopefully that will help with the confidence to feel happier on some of the steeper blues.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| maggi wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Val D'Isere is the only place I've had to pay for a pee. |
Much as I love France, loads of places charge for a pee. Usually 40 or 50c though, I've never paid a whole euro! |
In Italy you usually have to squat - retching - over a filthy latrine, like a Cambodian peasant, and it's almost always completely free!
Another point scored for Italy there I think.
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| paulio wrote: |
| In Italy you usually have to squat - retching - over a filthy latrine, like a Cambodian peasant |
Rubbish 
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FAQ
