Saturday morning - busy, full to capacity 6 pack chair, opening gates to access load area. A guy a few loads in front of me does a "race start" out of the gate straight onto his back bottom, misses chair then stands there despondently by liftie as every single chair behind is filled to capacity- really had to bite my tongue to resist asking "How those snowlerblades working out?" as I loaded.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
skiboard316 wrote:
And why not?
Because he was rubbish. I'm sorry for you that you can't see that. The reason it's important is that one day he might want to try some real moguls rather than the gentle undulations he was skiing on that pitch. Unfortunately the 'technique' he was using in that video will not support more challenging terrain or complex snow, so he's likely to be frustrated in his desire the ski more of the mountain. If, on the other hand, he has no ambitions beyond what he was skiing in that video clip then that's great. Have fun. Fill you boots. That's what skiing holidays are all about (except I don't think I've met anyone who doesn't want to get better, so maybe it is a problem after all).
On that point I'll wish you good night. The last word can be found in the post underneath mine if that's what you're looking for.
anarchicsaltire, sorry!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
skiboard316, If I wanted to start skiboarding, where could I get a lesson from a qualified instructor (specific to skiboarding)?
rob@rar beat me to the technical argument, so (given we've established these threads are like crack to me):
What biomechanical difference does skiboarding have from skiing? It's not like snowboarding, monoboarding, anything where the difference is night and day - you're creating a base of support on two edges to deflect your centre of mass where you want it to go against gravity's pull down something slippery.
Assuming you end up with "they're the same" - given that high end skiiers strive for perfomance and efficiency in their skiing to allow them to go harder and faster, why would skiboarders want their bodies to behave differently given the fundamentals are the same?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
skiboard316....stop being so gay.... and take that tampon out of your a$$hole
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Can we call a spade a shovel?
Skiboards / blades whatever you want to call them are for people who cannot ski on a "normal" length ski.
They worked well for Butterscotch and gave her loads of confidence - going down reds and even blacks after only a weeks skiing.
But now she's grown up and is getting full length skis
After all it is free
After all it is free
CEM, well, yes, but it was an excellent politeness exercise _not_ to actually say so.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
What's the problem and why do you care so much?
You started the post sunshine. And agree with rob@rar, on everything especially the "moguls" clip. That a piste that is "a little cut up" at best, nowhere near moguls, and the chap in the video is tip-0toeing down it in a very shaky manor. If I saw him I'd stop to let him go by, both for my own safety and general enjoyment.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
The real question is ....... why would you waste your time on a powder day pansying around on those stupid things when you could snowboard instead?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Now I can't see those vids at work, but what I will mention is that I was watching some chaps skiing a normal, groomed-ish blue/red piste the other week and was thinking to myself "they look like snowlerbladerizers, but what is this? They appear to be holding sticks!"
When they got to the lift queue I noticed said chaps were on this seasons Rossi S3s (a skinnyish rockered affair) that were sized in the typical French hire "171 pour tous!" mode and the rockery bit was most retrousse (or as we say "like a pig").
What this means, though, is: Rejojce! If you like the handling of tiny tiny skis but don't like the teasing, you too can enjoy the gnar-core rocker revolution! Simply ensure that you don't over angulate and you can have a full sized ski, 35% of which never contacts the piste and never have this argument again!
Happy to help!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
So do we need to try them at the Ski Test next week, and what technique should we use?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I hesitate to take issue with people much more expert than I, but I really don't buy that suggestion that any use of arms is necessarily indicator of poor technique. Depends what you're doing.
plenty of arms again. Where's the problem? Maybe she could do some of those moves with arms clamped to her sides like that daft Irish dancing bloke. But would it look better? absolutely not.
Also, I certainly do find that there's more difference between skiboards and short skis than there is between different kinds of skis - not that I've tried loads of different skis. But the difference between snowblades and short skis is (for me at any rate) FAR greater than the difference between short skis (120 cm Wedzes) and my normal longer skis. No comparison.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
pam w wrote:
I hesitate to take issue with people much more expert than I, but I really don't buy that suggestion that any use of arms is necessarily indicator of poor technique.
It is if you're trying to carve instead of some combination of running, hopping from foot to foot, and pivoting.
they use arms at the outset - and these are world class skaters.
The link didn't come through, but do you know why skater footspeed can be so much faster than their upper body speed that they use arms to get any sort of fast times? (Mind you they can skate efficiently without using arms at all, and in distances 5000m and over certainly do).
Because they're not carving, they're running and hopping from edgeset to edgeset.
Now go find short track skating video and look more closely at how they do turns. They do carve in corners because they have skates that allow them to, and they move their arms far less. They move their arms less but amazingly, they gain more speed in corners than long trackers ever could.
Those skates are rockered to sub-5m radius and she's -still- not carving, each arm use is a pivot. She is good: she pivots smoothly.
Quote:
Maybe she could do some of those moves with arms clamped to her sides like that daft Irish dancing bloke. But would it look better? absolutely not.
That's a personal and somewhat arbitrary definition of style. For all the principles that's founded on, tapdancers and ballet dancers on point should flail their arms about in order to 'look good'.
What 'looks good' depends on what one's eye is used to.
Quote:
Also, I certainly do find that there's more difference between skiboards and short skis than there is between different kinds of skis
Try more skis.
Quote:
But the difference between snowblades and short skis is (for me at any rate) FAR greater than the difference between short skis (120 cm Wedzes) and my normal longer skis. No comparison.
Now compare your Wedzes to a set of Icelantics, for example. I will bet you that the longer and fatter Icelantics feel more like "proper skiboards" than the Wedzes, because of
a) how far one needs to transfer balance to get them on edge
b) they are easier to pivot because they are are easier to keep flat instead of edged on the snow (and the flawed habit of pivoting an edged ski is what snowblade fans claim is "hard on knees" about "skis")
c) there is some purchase on soft snow even when the ski is not completely edged, because the surface area is so huge.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
The guy in the 'moguls'
...yes... 'moguls'
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
the first clip is so 80's everyone was sketchy back then but what is he wearing i hate to say it as i will be hated by boarders , skiers and skiboarders but sometimes i use poles if im going somewhere with lots of flats , i use the same techniques as i use on skis but maybe more tailored to whatever i am using infact i cant even describe how i "ride" , i do lots of turns and keep myself quite slow as i am a scardey cat i am always scared of boarders falling over in my path and old austrian men cutting me up (can i use the term cutting me up ? like you would in a car?) but hey i love big foot's and im pretty sure im going to be loving snowjams when i can give them a good go on some decent runs not the local dry slope!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
+
(with the slightly taller 30mm riser though)
=
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rob@rar wrote:
skiboard316 wrote:
And why not?
Because he was rubbish.
anarchicsaltire, sorry!
Post some vid of you doing better on 100 cm boards in the same type of terrain. If you cannot or will not do that, your whole argument is nothing but armchair quarterbacking and lip-service.
I've just watched the video - that's a piste with some bumps on it
God I nearly died laughing.
On my skis, I'd just go straight over those bumps and I'm not even that good a skier.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
skiboard316, as a ski instructor I can recognise bad mogul skiing when I see it. It really is irrelevant how long the skis are on his feet. It's just bad technique.
skiboard316, If I wanted to start skiboarding, where could I get a lesson from a qualified instructor (specific to skiboarding)?
I have no idea. I know there are programs like "Bumps for Boomers" that start riders out on low end skiboards but then progress them to regular skis.
The basic mechanics are of course not really all that dissimilar, but the feel of the ride is. I cannot fully explain it ... but the boards are soooo much shorter that it can be difficult to ride tough terrain on skiboards. Some terrain can be exceptionaly challenging on boards that short. Some people like that challenge. Could they ride the same terrain more efficiently with greater speed on full-sized skis? Sure. But what if they choose not to? What if they simply prefer the shorter, lighter equipment?
That being said, I've personally witnessed guys hiking and chucking backcountry ungroomed pow on 105 and 110 cm boards. Most skiers don't or can't do that on 180 cm skis, let alone sticks half the size. I've seen skiboarders blow down steep ungroomed double-blacks on 100 cm boards. Most recreational riders never hit that kind of terrain on any sized sticks.
My only point in this thread and the clips I linked to is to establish different riders in different terrain ... all on short boards and all doing their own thing successfully having a good time with a minimalist mindset of having the smallest, lightest and simplest set-up that is necessary to get the job done.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
On my skis, I'd just go straight over those bumps and I'm not even that good a skier.
I'm inclined to think that the first part of that sentence renders the second part unnecessary.
After all it is free
After all it is free
skiboard316 wrote:
The basic mechanics are of course not really all that dissimilar ...
Finally we get there!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
fatbob wrote:
Saturday morning - busy, full to capacity 6 pack chair, opening gates to access load area. A guy a few loads in front of me does a "race start" out of the gate straight onto his back bottom, misses chair then stands there despondently by liftie as every single chair behind is filled to capacity- really had to bite my tongue to resist asking "How those snowlerblades working out?" as I loaded.
I see skiers and snowboarders eating it on and off the lift every time I go ride, so what is your point?
Should I have to bite my lip to not act like an a** asking them how their skis and snowboards are working out for them?
Your comment is far more telling of your poor attitude towards unskilled/beginner riders than it is of the potential of skiboards and people who choose to ride them.
Please.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
skiboard316, There's no need, it's true.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
DaveC wrote:
rob@rar Assuming you end up with "they're the same" - given that high end skiiers strive for perfomance and efficiency in their skiing to allow them to go harder and faster, why would skiboarders want their bodies to behave differently given the fundamentals are the same?
To be honest, as a recreational rider I don't care too much how my body behaves.
All I'm concerned with is:
1. Am I getting down the mountain efficiently and effectively enough to not get injured and not burn my legs out?
2. Am I having fun?
3. Am I able to progressivley explore a greater variety of terrain and enjoy doing it?
4. Am I able to figure things out, problem solve on my own to get a bit better each season, and learn from the feedback my equipmnet gives me as I ride?
I really don't care if my arms are flopping about like a chicken ... I don't go ride to look cool or impress anyone. It's not about style to me, it's about personal enjoyment.
For me (and most other recreational riders), it is not always all about "faster" and "harder". If you want to spend triple the amount of time on chairlifts as you do in the snow ... more power to you.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
skiboard316 wrote:
Watch the videos. In the first clip, he is riding in very deep powder on very short boards. He's doing what fits his style for the equipment he is on and in the conditions he is in. Let's see you do better on 110 cm sticks in soft, deep powder.
Watch the rest of the clips and you'll see other riders with different styles in different types of terrain.
Right, I've just watched the clips and emboldened by the evidence presented I can safely say that, unless i was doing it for a bet, very very poor or very persistently ill advised, I would not ride 110cm 'sticks' or 'offcuts' in sort deep powder (or moguls, or ice or...). Have these people actually tried skis?
I suspect that if I tried rollerblading, I'd fall on my back bottom a few times before I got the CoG sorted. I wouldn't insist on having 186cm long rollerblades and say "hey, I'd like to see you do better on these things"
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
skiboard316 wrote:
To be honest, as a recreational rider I don't care too much how my body behaves.
All I'm concerned with is:
1. Am I getting down the mountain efficiently and effectively enough to not get injured and not burn my legs out?
2. Am I having fun?
3. Am I able to progressivley explore a greater variety of terrain and enjoy doing it?
4. Am I able to figure things out, problem solve on my own to get a bit better each season, and learn from the feedback my equipmnet gives me as I ride?
I really don't care if my arms are flopping about like a chicken ... I don't go ride to look cool or impress anyone. It's not about style to me, it's about personal enjoyment.
For me (and most other recreational riders), it is not always all about "faster" and "harder". If you want to spend triple the amount of time on chairlifts as you do in the snow ... more power to you.
1. Skiing well enables you can ski more efficiently and not expend unnecessary energy.
2. Skiing well might well mean you have more fun, it certainly won't mean you have less fun.
3. Skiing well means you can cope with a variety of terrain and enjoy the challenge on all the mountain.
4. Skiing well means you are better equipped to figures thigs out yourself, not least because you are more tuned in to your internal feedback.
Whether you flap your arms (or any other fault) is NOT about style, or looking cool, or trying to impress. It's about skiing well, nothing more, nothing less. Flapping arms is a good way to interfere with the body movements you need to make to ski well.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Bikeandsnow wrote:
Can we call a spade a shovel?
Skiboards / blades whatever you want to call them are for people who cannot ski on a "normal" length ski.
They worked well for Butterscotch and gave her loads of confidence - going down reds and even blacks after only a weeks skiing.
But now she's grown up and is getting full length skis
This post does nothing more than demonstrate your ignorance. I have met and have ridden with a skiboarder who is also an expert (sponsored) skier who, I am fairly certain, is much more skilled than you will ever be. He does both and enjoys both and is very, very good at both.
I have also ridden with expert skiers who got bored of it and moved to skiboards or telemark or snowboarding just for a change and for something different. Some of these guys hike backcountry for most of their turns each season and descend steep, bottomless pow on 110 cm skiboards. I'd love to see some of the people talking smack on this thread try to do that.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
Skiing well enables you can ski more efficiently and not expend unnecessary energy.
Where's the point in that? I don't want to have to eat salad all bloody winter.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Lizzard,
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Now I'm not one to jump on a bandwagon, but as a fellow skiboarder I feel the need to comment on this...
MOGULS? Come on now, it's merely a chopped up piste at the end of the day!
That's all I'm saying, I'm not getting into the whole skiboard v ski's debate. I do both and like them equally. So ner!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
skiboard316, are you a manufacturer or seller of skiboards/blades?
Skiing well enables you can ski more efficiently and not expend unnecessary energy.
Where's the point in that? I don't want to have to eat salad all bloody winter.
seconded ROFL! although i want to ski well but i must say exerting yourself is a great way of getting a nice toned lower body
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Bikeandsnow wrote:
skiboard316, are you a manufacturer or seller of skiboards/blades?
Sounds like you are...
No ... I am not.
I just fell in love with the sport.
I spent many years trying skiing and snowboarding off and on and just never really enjoyed it all that much. I just did it to get myself outside during the winter. I had always preferred nordic skiing, snowshoeing, hiking, backpacking, rock climbing, kayaking, tennis ... mostly summer sports.
I did not get addicted to snow sports until I found skiboarding. It just suits me. Poles and long skis always just got in my way and frustrated me. I like the freedom and flexibility that skiboarding gives me. I like the tighter turning radius. I like being able to get into very deep laid over carves, dragging my hands in the snow. The faster and smoother progression was definitely a plus for me. I was never a good skier. Some of the people I have ridden with were or still are ... but not me. I advanced more in my first season skiboarding than I did in all previous years of skiing combined.
To be honest, I don't know why any new rider would prefer skis over skiboards. There is really no point unless you wanted or needed something significantly more stable or you wanted to progress into racing or heli-skiing the most extreme terrain. There are now skiboards of various lengths and widths to suit any level of rider in just about any type of conditions. There are skatelike 75 cm tricksters, short 110 cm super-wides and even longer all-mountain 130 cm boards. Between those 130 cm boards and newer, shorter, fatter twin tips ... the line between skiboards and skis starts to become blurred, but there is still a huge difference in ride being on a center mounted set of skiboards, no poles in hand doing whatever pulls your trigger.
Ha come to the UK if you think kayaking is a summer sport - last weekend I was out in minus 7 on the North Esk, cracking run with a couple of funky drops.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
clarky999 wrote:
funky drops.
I think it is high time this turned into a kayaking thread.
skiboard316, haven't you just proved with your last post that, as people have stated before, skiboards (really they're just blades and you know it) are just for people who can't ski properly. I promise you if you'd got past the point where the poles felt like they were in your way, but rather allowed you to keep a nice steady rhythm you'd never have felt the need to ride childs skis and then this whole thread need never have started.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Because he was rubbish. I'm sorry for you that you can't see that. The reason it's important is that one day he might want to try some real moguls rather than the gentle undulations he was skiing on that pitch. Unfortunately the 'technique' he was using in that video will not support more challenging terrain or complex snow, so he's likely to be frustrated in his desire the ski more of the mountain. If, on the other hand, he has no ambitions beyond what he was skiing in that video clip then that's great. Have fun. Fill you boots. That's what skiing holidays are all about (except I don't think I've met anyone who doesn't want to get better, so maybe it is a problem after all).
i hate to say it as i will be hated by boarders , skiers and skiboarders but sometimes i use poles if im going somewhere with lots of flats , i use the same techniques as i use on skis but maybe more tailored to whatever i am using infact i cant even describe how i "ride" , i do lots of turns and keep myself quite slow as i am a scardey cat i am always scared of boarders falling over in my path and old austrian men cutting me up (can i use the term cutting me up ? like you would in a car?) but hey i love big foot's and im pretty sure im going to be loving snowjams when i can give them a good go on some decent runs not the local dry slope!
