 Poster: A snowHead
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| rayscoops wrote: |
pandora, it will be interesting to see how well BA deal with the delays and disruption  |
badly as usual i would expect
sorry, but they deserve to go under, whilst i feel sorry for those involved who would loose jobs but really they need to think about the consequences to travellers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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BA usually seem better thaqn most other airlines to me when it ocmes to that sort of stuff, CEM,
I hope they sort it all out, they're my favourite airline to travel with.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| pandora, it will be interesting to see how well BA deal with the delays and disruption |
If it's anything like the way they've dealt with every other crisis, frankly I'd be amazed if any planes leave when the strikes go ahead. Having seen the Gate Gourmet fiasco first hand, the Terminal 5 problems, I have no faith in BA management to deal with a crisis. Which is bonkers, because they've had plenty of practice.
Personally, I have no sympathy for cabin crew who strike despite getting a bloody good deal for what they do. I see their pay, conditions and overall BA as a company to work for as a gravy train that they are busy derailing.
If the other staff feel as strongly as they do, I suggest some strong and decisive statements are made - I'm sure the staff can make it clear as day how they feel about their strike that will be another blow for a company under siege.
Sod them. If BA goes under, I'll have lost out on pretty much nothing - they haven't been competitive for years, they are living off a reputation they don't deserve, and some of their staff evidently are believing the tosh that union reps spout in order to keep themselves in a job and on the front page of the papers. I haven't flown with them for a very long time, and with stuff like this means I won't make any plans to.
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I've just discovered that with Cathay basic economy tickets can be cancelled for a small (for long haul) fee. I'll therefore be booking a "back up" flight with Cathay later this week, that I can cancel if the strike doesn't disrupt my plans.
I used to be a fan, but BA won't be getting my business again when there's a choice. Cathay are cheaper and unless you're flying buiness better. Plus the BA entertainment system is sh**** - broken down on every single longhaul flight I've taken with them in past year.
I'm sure many other customers will be thinking the same.
Well done cabin crew - maybe you'll win in the short term, but who will gain if the company goes bust and you're all out of work?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I suspect Willie Walsh is the cause of all the problems.
If BA made millions a couple of years ago rather than dishing the money out to shareholders they should have saved some for a rainy day.
It is normal in the private sector for employment conditions to be changed from time to time and at the moment the conditions seem to get worse rather than better in most cases. However expecting people to work for a month without pay was unreasonable in my opinion. It would be better to cut a few jobs and give the people a chance to work for some one else rather than make 100% of employees miserable and frustrated.
The budget airlines also have a lot to answer for..they charge less and probably cut corners to do this (employing pilots with less experience, minimal cabin crew etc). Most people are so short sighted they go for the cheapest airline ticket and don't care who its with and so the budget airlines get more business. BA end up not filling their seats and having to reduce their service to the poor quality of the budget airlines.
I would pay twice as much for an airline seat to travel on a well maintained plane with a pilot with years of experience.
It would seem others just don't care about paying for a better service and Willy Walsh has ruined the BA brand.
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Beanie - Cathay are great..loved the chinese food on board when I flew to NZ with them a few years ago but I don't believe they fly from London to the Alps!
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snowymum, working for a month without pay was optional. That is not what they are striking about.
They are striking because they have reduced the number of crew on longhaul from 15 to 14, frozen pay for 2 years, and said that new recruits will only be paid market salary PLUS 10%!!!! Oh, and promotions are going to be base on merit rather than time served. What in that sounds unreasonable? Sounds like a pretty good deal to me and I wouldn't blame current management.
If you want to blame anyone blame previous management who put their ridiculous current contracts in place in the first place meaning they are paid vast amounts more than the market rate.
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beanie - I know the working without pay was last year but it was completely wrong and a sign of very bad management.
If what they are striking about is the things you list I agree none are that unreasonable. I'm not supporting the strike. I'm just saying I don't like the current management of BA and think that if they had run the company better the past few years they wouldn't be in this mess.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
The budget airlines also have a lot to answer for..they charge less and probably cut corners to do this (employing pilots with less experience, minimal cabin crew etc).
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They employ very few AFAIK. But they do contract in a lot of agency staff (very possibly from competing agencies?). Means no pension contributions, no NI contributions, and no strikes.
Not so much less experienced pilots, but those ex-flag carrier pilots trying to keep their ratings at their own or their agency's expense.
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BA end up not filling their seats and having to reduce their service to the poor quality of the budget airlines.
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BA is the only airline I've flown with that routinely was trying to offload people on to other flights due to regular overbooking of flights in exchange for a lunch voucher, and if overnight, a free room is a local hostel. By routinely, I mean every single flight that I took, both ways, on LHR-Rome when commuting every other week for 6 months.
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Oh, and promotions are going to be base on merit rather than time served
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Hopefully merit means those that voted NO and turn up for work will be promoted, and those that decide to go AWOL will be first in line for the P45.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| snowymum wrote: |
If BA made millions a couple of years ago rather than dishing the money out to shareholders...
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Forgive me if I am wrong but is the purpose of a PLC not to generate as much return as possible for it's shareholders?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If there's a bunch of pilots cross trained to cover it, and they're bound to have some backup with agency or temporary staff ready to go, I'd go for making as many of them redundant as possible, at statutory minimum. Welcome to the real world.
I'm glad I work for an organisation where I don't have to tolerate the soft and fluffy crap that this lot are being treated with.
If you turned around to Ryanair, Easyjet or anyone else's cabin crew and offered them the BA jobs, I reckon they'd take them at a 10% pay cut, and be bloody grateful for it. The market will not support what they are asking for. They've got to move into the 21st century sometime.
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stuarth - They are supposed to pay dividends to share holders but they don't have to give all the profit in good years to shareholders do they? If BA goes bankrupt may be the share holders will wish the dividends had been smaller and the company had remained profitable.
If my husband gets a decent bonus (hasn't happened recently) we don't spend it all that year, we keep some of it in the bank for a rainy day. It seems like common sense to me. Why don't airlines do the same?
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You know it makes sense.
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Sounds like BA has as bad a name as Skibeat on here 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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as for shareholder, remember that 90% are not wealthy individuals speculating on the stock market. most are your and my pension funds etc.
They don't have to pay a dividend, but if there's spare cash doing nothing, then it's bad investment. For a company with tax liabilities, they ideally want to make no profit.
If BA go bankrupt then it's your and my pension fund that gets affected. Exactly the same when Railtrack was forced into liquidation (or whatever) by some cabinet member too interested in proving he had the power to do so, with his career first on the list of priorities, and the pension funds of his constituents last.
Lets hope the BA unions have a few more brain cells than the Alitalia unions.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| snowymum wrote: |
| I suspect Willie Walsh is the cause of all the problems. ..... |
More like The pension fund deficit and excessive overhaeads (which Walsh seems to be trying to get under control). I don't fancy his job.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| snowymum wrote: |
The budget airlines also have a lot to answer for..they charge less and probably cut corners to do this (employing pilots with less experience, minimal cabin crew etc). Most people are so short sighted they go for the cheapest airline ticket and don't care who its with and so the budget airlines get more business. BA end up not filling their seats and having to reduce their service to the poor quality of the budget airlines.
I would pay twice as much for an airline seat to travel on a well maintained plane with a pilot with years of experience. |
It is not the airlines that dictate safety standards in the main it is the Civil Aviation Authority and that applies to aircraft maintenance and pilot training. I am afraid you seem to be falling for the BA union propoganda that you are somehow safer with BA. A lot of pilots and cabin crew that work for other airlines would probably be deeply offended by the suggestion that their skills are inferior to those of people that work for BA. Those that are not offended would most likely laugh at the suggestion.
As far as cabin crew are concerned no doubt BA probably spend more time training them but just how many customer awareness courses do you need?
As for a pilot with years of experience is concerned, I think there is a possible case for stating that a pilot with five years experience is safer than with one with twenty years, as the pilot with twenty years will have been doing the same old thing for so long that he might be less likely to be quick thinking on the rare occasion that an emergency does arise.
What the budget airlines have demonstrated is that it is possible to provide a service at a much lower cost than some of the more established carriers.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I haven't read any BA Union propaganda. I am not employed by BA or any airline and I don't have any flights booked. I am entitled to voice my opinion on this forum even if you don't agree with it.
In order for air fares to have fallen so low over the last few years cut backs have been made somewhere so I personally would not feel as safe flying for a budget airline or charter airline (the latter due to the other passengers). Reading the current press over BA it comes across as a company in chaos so if I were say going to canada I'd probably book air canada and if I were going to switzerland I'd book Swiss (or whatever swiss air is called now). As it happens I'm going skiing by train so can just worry about Eurostar's state of chaos. Again they seem to be cutting back on safety/ techical maintenance to maximise profits.
I do not think low cost is a good thing when it comes to airlines. I would like to pay more to travel safely and in comfort..I even enjoy hot food on a plane!
I seem to be a minority on here. It appears Willie Walsh and the guy from Ryanair are on this thread.
I have enjoyed flying BA in the past so am hoping they do sort their problems out but I don't want them to become another no frills airline.
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| Quote: |
last few years cut backs have been made somewhere so I personally would not feel as safe flying for a budget airline
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Come on, think about - what company is gonna risk a multiple million pound plane, trained staff and hundreds of passengers jsut to save a few quid short term. They are not allowed to cut down on safety anyway, there a legal limits thay have to meet.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Obviously all airlines are going to try to look after their planes/staff but the more they are pressed to turn their planes round quickly and not employ their own engineers etc the more risk of accidents happening.
So Clarky do you just buy the cheapest ticket irrespective of the Airline?
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Getting very nervous about my trip to Denver next Wednesday. 
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| snowymum wrote: |
| So Clarky do you just buy the cheapest ticket irrespective of the Airline? |
For any airline flying into/out of the UK, yes. Price is the only factor for me.
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| richjp wrote: |
| As for a pilot with years of experience is concerned, I think there is a possible case for stating that a pilot with five years experience is safer than with one with twenty years, as the pilot with twenty years will have been doing the same old thing for so long that he might be less likely to be quick thinking on the rare occasion that an emergency does arise. |
The vet who landed the airbus on the Hudson, after bird strikes took out both engines, did a bloody good job.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| snowymum wrote: |
...
So Clarky do you just buy the cheapest ticket irrespective of the Airline? |
For short haul, Allways.
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| snowymum wrote: |
Obviously all airlines are going to try to look after their planes/staff but the more they are pressed to turn their planes round quickly and not employ their own engineers etc the more risk of accidents happening.
So Clarky do you just buy the cheapest ticket irrespective of the Airline? |
Yes! Although fairly frequently it works out cheaper for me to use BA to get to Innsbruck than Flybe/Easyjet - depends on time of year and booking.
I'd take BA if there's not much in the price as well, they've looked after me before when I've done stupid things like getting to the airport a day early lol (no extra charge, just found me a flight!). Plus you get free drinks with them ;D
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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andy, Boris, Are either of you driving friday 5th- sat 6th? Room for , a little one? Just considering my options. I'm heading for Morgins on the Portes du solais. Yes booked BA on the 6th March.  Normally such a nice experience, thanks pandora
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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So I'm confused, have BA said what dates they're striking?
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| snowymum wrote: |
Obviously all airlines are going to try to look after their planes/staff but the more they are pressed to turn their planes round quickly and not employ their own engineers etc the more risk of accidents happening.
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There is ZERO evidence that the UK (and other EU) budget airlines are any less safe than the traditional ones.
And if the CAA had any doubts about their safety, they would be all over them.
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So Clarky do you just buy the cheapest ticket irrespective of the Airline? |
On short haul flights (anything up to about 4 hours flying time) I certainly will. On longer flights, comfort starts to become more important, and I would pay a bit more for that, if necessary.
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You know it makes sense.
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clarky999, Dont think so but the law of sod will be bound to do it when I am going on my dream week in the mountains, 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Juding by the later news reports today, it looks like the union/cabin crew are going to play silly bugs and not announce dates, and leave it lingering around.
They say it is so they can negotiate with BA. But of course the cynic in me suggests the longer they leave it the more damage they can do, as more people are going to be disinclined to book BA whilst the situation remains unresolved, so they can muster what they think is more negotiating power through greater damage.
In theory they can hang around for almost another 3 weeks, as I gather they have to commence action within 28 days of the ballot but must give 7 days notice.
If they were half decent people they'd get on and announce dates (they have to give 7 days notice anyway) so people effected can conisder their options, and continue to negotiate with a view to resolving by the date. Instead, they continue to keep innocent travellers in the dark. By not announcing a date they keep more and more of us in limbo.
There's nothing I can do of course but watch and wait, but I find it all very depressing that a trip I booked 6 months ago is being put at risk so a bunch of selfish people can use me and others as a pawn for their own personal aims and gains. It wouldn't be so bad if, parking my selfish annoyance about the risks to my trip, I had half an ounce of belief that they are actually right and justified, but I'm afriad I just don't.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
if keeping up to date with horror stories is your thing
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Not so much lol, but it would be absolutely terrible if my return flight to the UK on the 8th were to be cancelled... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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clarky999,
We were due to fly back to UK from U.S. on the 8th March . Yep we also thought a cancelled flight would be terrible 
We are now flying back 10 days early at an extra cost of £500!! We can`t take the risk of not getting back to work and letting clients down. Some of us have a conscience.
ALSO
As the threat of a BA strike was first mentioned around 10th July `09 I feel the insurance companies may find any reason not to pay out for expenses incurred if the strike goes ahead. It`s not like we were n`t forewarned
The stress caused to us wondering whether our flights on 11th Jan and 8th March would be affected by strike, together with lost luggage (everything) on the outbound flight has been the final straw.
When you consider the tens of thousands people, families with young children and babies, in limbo with no information to work with, in such places as Australia worrying themselves sick all because some over paid waiters decided they didn`t want to pull their weight like the rest of us.
We will NEVER fly BA again. It`s far too risky and always will be.
As far a I am concerned the offending BA cabin crew are nothing but SCUM
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 24-02-10 2:50; edited 3 times in total
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clarky999,
Trust me when I say, that there is a difference in the standard of pilots in certain airlines. I'm an experienced pilot and there are certain airlines I would refuse to travel on and it doesn't mean that its the low cost ones that are to be avoided. For example, I'd happily get on an EZY flight any day of the week because I know that their training dept is bloody good but that doesn't run true for all the operators.
The problem these days is that opportunity to fly a jet is becoming increasingly decided on financial backing of the wannabe pilot (paying for their own type rating etc) whereas in the past it was on ability. Thankfully not all companies employ this model, some still recruit on merit e.g. BA and Virgin.
richjp,
You're quite correct in stating that the CAA determines the minimum standards needed, however I'd like to fly with airlines which demanded the best standards. During a Licence Proficiency Check (simulator check) did you know that the pilot can screw up 5 different manoeuvres (which could end up in crashes in the real world) and then have another go during the same detail and pass their check?
As for the stike IMHO the CC are in for a real hiding - I doubt whether it will come to a strike, probably a 12th hour deal, if that doesn't happen then worst case I can't see it lasting more than 2 days.
Fingers crossed no one has their holidays ruined.
Cheers
BB
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| bucking bronco wrote: |
You're quite correct in stating that the CAA determines the minimum standards needed, however I'd like to fly with airlines which demanded the best standards. During a Licence Proficiency Check (simulator check) did you know that the pilot can screw up 5 different manoeuvres (which could end up in crashes in the real world) and then have another go during the same detail and pass their check?
BB |
BB that reads like some pilots barely pass a minimum standard and are dangerous. This isn't the case.
You can't fly with an airline, into or out of the UK that has pilots who are anything less than the world's best. It is worth noting that there is an extensive EASA list of airlines that are banned from EU airspace because their maintenance and or training regimes are not up to scratch.
LPC is a training/refresher exercise as much as a proficiency check. Some of the scenarios that are thrown at pilots would be near impossible to survive but trainers/examiners are looking at how the pilot functions under intense stress, as much as they are looking at their flying skills. The case of the 767 that crashed short at Heathrow was only the miracle it was because the pilot retracted the flaps and extended the glide. This would have been a technical fail in an LPC.
I am very happy with the standard of UK pilots.
The cabin crew in this dispute are being very naive. The world has changed since the days of the miners, the dockers and grave diggers holding the country to ransom and BA is no longer a state industry which will be bailed out, no matter how uncompetitive it becomes. There is an old cartoon of two groups of people sitting in a boat. At one end, there is a smoking cannon. The caption says "excellent shot, water is pouring in at the capitalists' end of the boat".
I hope Pandora and her mates hold it together and give Willy Walsh the chance to turn BA around. The BASSA members would do well to remember that staff at profitable companies do better than those at loss making companies.
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| susieski wrote: |
We are now flying back 10 days early at an extra cost of £500!! We can`t take the risk of not getting back to work and letting clients down. Some of us have a conscience ...... all because some over paid waiters decided they didn`t want to pull their weight like the rest of us.
We will NEVER fly BA again. It`s far too risky and always will be.
As far a I am concerned the offending BA cabin crew are nothing but SCUM |
...... mmmmm .... just noticed you are on an 8 week ski holiday (nothing wrong with that at all btw) in the States but it is you that has decided to cut it short by 10 days even though there maybe no problem at all. It is nice however to be able to take two months off without letting your clients down because the 'over paid' waiters do not really have that opportunity because they are waiting on people like you and I.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rayscoops, do I detect an teensy weensy bit of envy? I must admit I am envious, too. But that doesn't change the concept that customers, even if they are wealthy and have more spare time than you and I, should feel secure that they will receive the service they have paid for.
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FAQ
