 Poster: A snowHead
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| Super Eagle wrote: |
| rob@rar, So does Hemel only have level 3 instructors? I don't think so and neither do MK,Castlford or Chillfactor etc. so are you saying they are not being honest with the punter? |
No, of course Hemel doesn't. The only point I'm making is that a good ski school won't place it's highest qualified instructors only with top end clients (Hemel doesn't, for example). Just because you're a beginner doesn't mean that you won't benefit from having a well qualified & highly experienced instructor - many people will argue that in pedagogic terms it makes lots of sense to ensure the first stages of instruction are given by the best teachers you have available so their foundation skills are as good as they can be. Equally, it's good for all instructors, IMO, to have a wide ranging diet of different client types.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Super Eagle wrote: |
| Again I state that its the Ski Schools job is to make sure the Instructor whether level 1,2,3 or 4 is carrying out their lessons and demos to the required standard. |
Just out of interest, how do you define the required standard?
| Super Eagle wrote: |
| Assuming that you are completely correct wouldn't all instructors have to be level 4 before they could teach ( Oooops France already does this but they're not necessarily the best instructors ). |
I'm not saying that only L4 qualified instructors are good enough to teach. I'm simply stating that the most highly qualified instructors should also teach beginners as well as more experienced clients. It's good for the clients, and good for the instructor.
| Super Eagle wrote: |
| ]Do the best footballers in the world make the best managers ???????. At what level did the top 8 managers in the premiership play. |
Sorry, not sure what point you're making.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
However my take on pay rates should be that you are paid in accordance with the level of class you are taking rather than your personal ability. Wether you are a level 2 instructor or ISTD makes no difference at the end of the day a complete beginners class is a complete beginners class of side stepping,sliding and plough.
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This does not provide any incentive for an instructor to become more knowledgeable, better skilled and higher qualified though. As they will receive no more pay.
If an ISTD was paid more for taking this level of class then actually there would be less jobs for ISTD instructors as Ski Schools would employ more level 2 instructors if the majority of the Ski Schools classes were beginners. an ISIA or ISTD qualified instructor only earns more money when he is taking higher end lessons.
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This happens in the real world. Look at any country where different levels of qualification of instructor can be employed. Because lots of people can do the job then this brings down wage levels for everyone including the better qualified. It's simple supply and demand.
In France where the bar is technically set very high for those newly qualifying (I'm not talking 'grandfathers rights' here). There is a small supply of those that can legally teach, therefore wages are high and you can make a decent living.
Where I work at the moment I get paid roughly £2 more per hour than the next level down (I'm an ISIA btw) , but my qualification cost me the best part of probably £6k more to get than for that lower level. The level below that (1) is paid a further £2 less per hour, but their qualification is very low cost to attain in comparison to mine. Relatively speaking 'bang for buck' for qualification cost the level 1's get the best deal. If I had my time again, given my current situation, I would have just done the level 1 and forgot about the higher levels (level 4 excepted) as they are just not cost effective in terms of the financial return you get. (I am ignoring personal satisfaction here and purely talking in monetary terms).
The reality is that as an ISIA I have paid the most for my qualification and I receive the least in return (relatively). Obviously once you go from level 3 to 4 the rise in pay is enormous, but between 1,2 and 3 the difference isn't worth the effort if you look at the money angle only.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Super Eagle, that way no fully qualified instructor would ever want to teach beginners. Not a good state of affairs, IMO.
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I've seen and heard this from some level 4's and seen it in operation in ski schools. Also many of the independents in france as you'll know run clinics which are specifically designed to only cater to skiers over a certain level, they don't do beginners at all and don't want to.
I think thats sad, but thats their choice and if they make a living then you can't argue with that, but I think a good instructor should be teaching all levels, it keeps you more 'rounded'.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skir67, Agree with you totally. I beleive attaining a level 3 or 4 qualification is more or less driven through personal satisfaction. However the issue I have with level 4 and the right to work in France is that not everyone comes from a racing background and not all race skiers make good instructors. Technically they will have a brilliant understanding of skiing and the forces that come into play but have little in common with the beginner.
Alot of friends of mine have skied since they were 3 and have never understood what it is to be a beginner so when it comes to nervous older clients they find it difficult to associate the feeling with them. I learnt when I was older and can still remember what it was like just putting on skis for the first time and learning to turn.
It takes more than being a good skier to be a good instructor which is why I am not always in agreement with the BASI phylosophy.
Anyway I need to sleep know as I'm off to France in the morning to start teaching.
Enjoy everyone
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Super Eagle, Yeah, I agree with the sentiment that not all racers make good instructors. However on the whole I think those that go through the BASI system will by and large be good teachers owing to the culture within BASI. I think the whole speedtest issue was forced on BASI by the french originally. But I don't disagree on limiting numbers who can teach as if you can work in France legally then you can make a living for life. This is why I gave up teaching full-time as I could see no way of earning a basic living in any country other than France and I reckoned it might have taken me 5 or 6 years of race training and all the other physical training that goes along with it to have a chance of passing. Financially I could not afford that and if I was working then I could not train - catch 22!
The argument of course is how do you limit the numbers, assessment using examiners is unfortunately subjective, however running a race the clock is your judge and that is clearcut. I'm not a racer and never was. TBH I'm not even into it and wasn't particularly when I was training for speedtest either. But it is a fair way of judging and probably the only method that disparate nations are going to be able to agree on for at least the foreseeable future.
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