 Poster: A snowHead
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bertie bassett, give the guy a break and remove his personel details, I cannot see why you wouldn't??
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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as he has asked, i think you should, after all we're not a vindictive bunch
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Fair enough - data now removed.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This and another thread did get me thinking.. I've just bought winter tyres for my two trips next year. I used the discount on the drive2ski website as well, although there are cheaper out there, no one else could supply 4 for early January. Funny old life.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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bertie bassett,
Thank you....appreciated. Have a good xmas.
Tim.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| bertie bassett wrote: |
| Fair enough - data now removed. |
Yes I think that's the right thing to do as Tim asked but you were right to point out that it is in the public domain.
I don't know if his website is a lift, certainly the French information is available from the French Transport ministry in both French and English versions and I'm sure they would welcome betting the message out a bit more. It is an interesting microsite (interesting that he has done it that is).
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| bertie bassett wrote: |
| Fair enough - data now removed. |
applauded
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| Quote: |
I'm wondering what difference a logo makes if it is evidently an M+S tyre
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The difference between an M+S tyre and an M+S tyre with the snowflake logo is the compound. The M+S tyre has pattern designed to clear mud and snow out of the tread so it won't fill up and start to act like a slick (as easily). The snowflake symbol means a tyre has a tread compound designed to work better at lower road temperatures. So whilst an all weather M+S tyre (like standard equipment on most UK 4X4s) will be a better in soft snow than an all weather 'saloon car' tyre it will be no better on frosty or heavily compacted snow covered roads. A tyre with the snowflake symbol will grip the road better in compacted snow or frost or very cold tarmac and will also have (unless there are rare exceptions I don't know of) a tread pattern designed to shed snow in a similar way to an M+S tyre (whether or not it has the M+S designation).
The usual disclaimers: I am an idiot with only meagre second hand wisdom.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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midgetbiker, I'd have said it as likely to be the tread pattern with "snowflake tyres" having lots more sipes (ie edges) that will provide additional grip on ice or compacted snow. Whilst the larger blocks (and "holes") of either type provide more grip in deeper snow. The main difference is that "snowflake tyres" are, IIRC, supposed to be tested to show improved grip whilst M+S can be stuck on any tyre that "looks a bit chunky".
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peura, I'm sure there is some truth in that, but also in the compound difference (as snowflake tyres will grip better in dry tarmac at say 2 degrees celsius when there is no issue with shedding or gripping snow, ice or water.
tread pattern and compound aren't two totally seperate sciences anyway as each feeds into the other, the more open and 'blocky' a tread pattern is the more it will flex as you drive, generating heat and thus affecting the compound you can run for optimum performance at any given road surface temperature.
IMO 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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midgetbiker, true but some/many of the winter tyres we (and France, Austria) get don't have the really soft compounds they use in the north (Finland, Sweden etc) to provide grip in cold weather. I recall some tests on our sort of friction tyres a while ago by the Norwegian magazines, IIRC they did relativity poorly in snow/ice compared to their type of friction tyres. Perhaps there's an in-between of a cool compound  - harder wearing than a "proper" winter compound but with more cold grip than a "summer" compound.
Another thought, I think the winter tyres sidewalls are softer to allow more tread to contact the ground.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Just taken the wife's Panda up to the mountains which I've just had the garage put Hanook Ice Bear on the front axel (some kind of hard a diamond continental winter tires on the back). Seemed really good. A lot of drivers stopped to fit chains at 600m. Had some problems passing the snowplough (about 2m gap with a sheer drop on my right). The main issue is the back wheels break away on corners but with FWD and a bit of opposite lock this is fairly easy to correct. Even passed some brits stuck in their audi quattro (thought they could climb ski jumps?).
So the Gummi Bears are the bizz on this limited test. Roads are very slippery at the moment.
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This thread got me thinking (dangerous, I know!!)
How does all this work for the car rental/hire industry? My opinion, is it is just a cash cow!!!!!!!
Especially if you rent in Munich and drive to Austria! The fees they charge for snow tires is CRAZY! They should be required! Don't you think!!???
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You know it makes sense.
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| parf64 wrote: |
Bode Swiller,
The Austrian police are very strict at the moment and insisting that any driver has the appropriate tyres for the conditions. That includes non residents.....the least you will get away with (if stopped) are M+S tyres + snowflake logo on the tyre wall. The majority of UK supplied M+S tyres do not carry the snowflake logo.......hence why so many Brits are unknowingly on illegal tyres. |
So are the rules for residents and visitors the same?
Is the snowflake symbol now legally accepted and mandantory? - if so please point me to the Austrian legislation.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| DB wrote: |
| parf64 wrote: |
Bode Swiller,
The Austrian police are very strict at the moment and insisting that any driver has the appropriate tyres for the conditions. That includes non residents.....the least you will get away with (if stopped) are M+S tyres + snowflake logo on the tyre wall. The majority of UK supplied M+S tyres do not carry the snowflake logo.......hence why so many Brits are unknowingly on illegal tyres. |
So are the rules for residents and visitors the same?
Is the snowflake symbol now legally accepted and mandantory? - if so please point me to the Austrian legislation. |
"All vehicles driving on snow-covered roads must have winter tires during the winter season (Nov - April) or risk a fine if pulled over. Alternatively, all-season tires (if marked for M&S: mud and snow) are also acceptable during the winter season. .... These winter provisions are strictly enforced and control points are common." Source: Austrian Tourist Board.
Where people get caught out is that the vast majority of M+S tyres in Europe come with a snowflake symbol on as standard.......they don't in the UK. The reason for this is that to warrant a 'snowflake' the tyre has to have a certain % amount of silicon in the compound make up of the tyre. That increases the cost production of the tyre. There are no such requirements in the UK, so to keep costs down M+S tyres in UK don't have as higher silicon content and hence no snowflake (and consequently don't grip the road as well).
So.....Austrian, German, French police etc when checking tyres are immediately looking for a snowflake symbol to see if the tyre is 'appropriate for the conditions'
I had this told to me by the UK marketing Director of one of the largest tyre manufacturers in the world, and confirmed by three of the largest tyre retailers in the UK while putting together drive2ski.com. The fact is that European tyre laws are very complicated with many ambiguous grey areas. To be safe, both in a driving and legal sense, its best to buy a tyre with a snowflake logo.
Hope this helps.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
The reason for this is that to warrant a 'snowflake' the tyre has to have a certain % amount of silicon in the compound make up of the tyre.
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Yep, thought the snowflake symbol was primarily a compund issue. It is the silica (not sure if thats quite the same as silicon) that makes the difference in low temps even if the surface is dry and clear.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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OK, a slight diversion from the original post
I am thinking of hiring a car for a two week trip to Austria this winter season
1. If I book winter tyres from the hire company can I be sure that they will be of the correct legal standard for driving in Austria,
2. Are winter tyres fitted to all hire vehicles in winter in Austria and would I need to book them as an extra
3. Are snow chains normally included or again do they need to be booked as an extra
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Midgetbiker......you are right. Got my chemistry mixed up there!
Valleyboy: A colleague says that some hire companies do, and others try and charge for winter tyres as an extra. If you book them, look for a snowflake/mountain logo on the tyre wall while checking the car over before signing for it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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DB,
| Quote: |
| I had this told to me by the UK marketing Director of one of the largest tyre manufacturers in the world, and confirmed by three of the largest tyre retailers in the UK while putting together drive2ski.com. |
Another reason to rip off customers by charging for the snowflake symbol! The prices I've seen quoted here for winter tyres in the UK are ridiculously expensive.
I think this explains a lot of the bovine excrement being passed off to the gullible as "facts". If in doubt any UK driver can ask the Tourist people at the relevant Embassy in London, or just go to the AA or RAC web sites where the information is always quickly updated by their partnerships with the equivalent organisations in the Alpine countries.
There are other inaccuracies in the information on the web site too, because the site owner is probably not using the services of web sites such as ADAC or ÖMAC as they are not written in detail in English.
The more we "chat" here, the more his "service" is pimped, so there is a vested interest in keeping the threads active.
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having been caught by the snow on sutton bank yesterday, i wish a lot more cars had beefy tires in winter,
waiting to go down the hill watching cars with thin tires skidding about, whilst we gently went down thanks to big chunky tires on the pick up
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tom00_uk,
I think less weight from the vehicle requires less resistance from the snow so a a big pick up even with big tyres isn't always advantageous.
However Sutton Bank will definitely sort what cars and tyres are made of.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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goes back a bit I know, and I think it's right that the contact deatils are moved from this site, but given the fact that the website is giving 'life and death' type guidance (the website even uses the word 'advice' which would have certain implications in my line of work) and perhaps making a turn out of people cliking on the link, it would be nice if the website owner put up some contact deatils on his website himself. Therefore if anybody had a concern about the guidance (or advice!) given then there was an easy contact point to take any issues up with. I have a bit of an issue with people making money by spooking people (rightly or wrongly) with no apparent downside for themsleves - almost like the asymetric reward system of our world famous banking community . . . .
BTW, I put snow tyres on and never use snow chains (but do keep a set in the car 'just in case'). Looking at the cars coming out of a fairly snowy VT yesterday, none seem to have chains on and all were getting around fine. Would never put them on in the UK - not worth the hassle/cost for the odd day here and there when the whole system gets blocked by people without the right kit anyway.
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FAQ
