 Poster: A snowHead
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national train sites work fine - i always book train tickets online and print tickets at home. keep trying 
Gas is roughly 8-10 bucks a gallon, and freeways have tolls. Its a pricey affair, car rental in Europe.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| laurenl wrote: |
I was trying to look at train tickets but I kept getting error messages saying to call the booking office. If it ends up cheaper we'll probably do that as opposed to renting.... I guess gas is much more expensive there. 
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Train Websites:
Swiss Railways. Note that Swiss Railways do a Swiss Transfer ticket that covers (return) travel from any Swiss airport to any swiss resort. It's a special rate ticket that can only be be bought from abroad ie you can't buy it once you've arrived in Switzerland. However if you're combining several countries and resorts it may not be the best option.
French Railways
Austrian Railways
Italian Railways
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I would still contend that four days is not nearly enough for Chamonix. You'll want at least two days for the Grandes Montets sector. Two for Flegere-Brevent. If you want to ski the Vallee Blanche, that's a day. Le Tour? Do you want to ski a day or two in Cournemeyer in Italy? It's included in the ski pass, and there is a free bus. So why wouldn't you take that opportunity to ski in Italy as well? So that's seven or eight days right there. Less time makes no sense to me, but that's just the opinion of one guy on the internet.
Many people will also tell you that you need/really want a car in Chamonix. They have a point, but an over-stated one in my opinion. Yes, the area is spread out, and a car makes getting around easier. But there are also free buses. Are they a hassle? Sure. Are they enough of a hassle to justify the expense of a car? In my opinion no.
It looks like you can get a train from Geneva to Chamonix in about 3:30. There are also direct charter buses from the airport. One thing to keep in mind, the route the train takes will go very close to Verbier as well as Portes du Soliel. My advice would be to plan seven days in Chamonix and then three or four in Verbier or Portes du Soliel, plus a day in Geneva on either end. Zermatt is quite a trek from Chamonix on the train.
That's how I see it. Others no doubt will see it differently.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Transfers are cheaper, quicker and better than the bus or train to go GVA > CHX. I recommend Cham-van but there are plenty of others. A car is handy but absolutely not essential - but factor in the flexibility to follow the best conditions and it could still be well worth it.
Personally I think that if you're keen on seeing a bit more of Europe, you could have a great time in Chamonix in 5 days. I dunno if you really *need* 2 days for each of those areas, and I'd probably pass on Le Tour in favour of going to Zermatt rather than Verbier - it's tricky to get to, true, but really, really worth it. But then I am not crazy about Verbier TBH, though the mountain's great.
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If the snowfall is good, surely the Dolomites are highly reccomended for their beauty. I know the snow can often be dodgy especially for off piste. But with the Hidden Valley (not off piste) and Val Mezdi (off piste), the skiing is pretty special.
Only a suggestion, what you think? You could then link it with looping round to St.Anton and then back to Switzerland or onwards to Venice.
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laurenl, in your place I would also be tempted to do what you're intending (ie 3 areas) but I think limiting it to two at most will be a better experience.
As others said: accommodation in that period is easy to find, which is a huge plus as you can book nothing in advance and follow the snow.
I would say that at least one of the following should be on your list: Chamonix, Verbier, St Anton. You could go to two of these and that's already much more than you can begin to "cover" in 10-12 days, and should give you a good perspective on some great European skiing. Cham needs a week to even see all the areas.
For pure scenery Cham and Verbier beat St Anton in my book, but the St Anton apres-ski has to be experienced. The skiing is fantastic in all three if you get good snow.
Other huge areas worth considering are Espace Killy (Val d'Isere/ Tignes) and the Dolomites (if snow is good)... and many others of course. If you really want three areas you could cheat and count Zermatt as your tourist destination instead of say Venice and get to ski for the whole period. It's cultural, too, with the skiing over the mountain into Italy. Mmmm, Italian food...
Something that hasn't been mentioned: are you on the TGR forums? They are far more US-based but there are a number of Euro skiers there and you might get to hook up with good skiers who know local areas. PLEASE NOTE they are far less welcoming to new members than snowheads, although we the Eurobunch tend to play nicer.
Flying into Zurich or even Geneva will allow you to head almost anywhere with a car - I'm partial to having a car for flexibility in chasing the snow, but that's indeed likely to end up more expensive. Swiss rentals will come with winter tyres and with motorway tax paid. Austria motorway tax is relatively low, French higher but you shouldn't need to drive a lot on French motorways.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Something that hasn't been mentioned: are you on the TGR forums? They are far more US-based but there are a number of Euro skiers there and you might get to hook up with good skiers who know local areas. PLEASE NOTE they are far less welcoming to new members than snowheads, although we the Eurobunch tend to play nicer.
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I would use the search function extensively before starting a thread over there.
Props to firebug, on the photo - that is a stunning shot of the Dru.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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laurenl, Venice is quite a trek from here (Chamonix). We took the train and it was about 8 hours or so (from Geneva). Factor in getting from whatever resort you're and you're looking at at least a day each way sitting in trains. No direct flights from Geneva either.
Having been there recently, it is a splendid thing to see, but Paris (for example) is easier to get to (3.5 hours by TGV) and just as interesting. There's loads to see in the Geneva area anyway without skiing.
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You know it makes sense.
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under a new name, I was thinking Venice wouldn't be worth it. Haven't been, my sister visited last month. I still reckon the Dolomites are worth a couple of days. 6 hours 30 to the Dolomites from Chamonix according to google keeping to motorway speed limits. For someone who travels long distances, this done late evening or early morning wouldn't be considered an awful way of spending time.
Paris is probably a very good suggestion with the TGV making better use of your time and it is very beautiful in parts.
Is Verbier really worth 4 days when you have such limited time? Zermatt is surely worth a day away from the powder for the views, not being too far away.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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More people are recomending Verbier as opposed to Zermatt, and Verbier is closer...
I know nothing about the ski areas and thats why I'm asking for recomendations. Is Verbier not worth it?
Under a new name, I wouldn't be returning to Geneva after Venice- Northwest/Delta Airlines, who I have all my frequent flier miles with, would allow a Denver-Geneva and Venice-Denver to count as a round trip flight.
Given Venice or Paris I would choose Venice.. I'll have to ask the boyfriend though.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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laurenl, I have spent a lot of time in Paris, and a week around Venice. I could lose myself in Paris, on the other hand I would be looking for a ticket to Milan from Venice. Just my opinion. Venice is extraordinary. Just not worth 8 hours on the train there and back.
Per RPF there is only one direct Geneva-Venice flight on Baboo and it's expensive. Alitalis, Swiss/LH change somewhere.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes, but I am only going one way... As in, if I go to Venice I will NOT be taking any sort of train or car or bus back to Geneva, Verbier, Chamonix or anywhere else in Europe.. I'll be flying straight back to Denver--- flight from Venice to JFK to DIA. if its 8 hours, there, well-- that isn't bad when you're used to driving around the States.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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laurenl, err, it's a day out of a vacation spent on Italian trains. Not my choice 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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laurenl, http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1287634#1287634
This thread has recently been resurrected on the forum starts out with transfer company in question being slated they defend themselves and come out shining. They are worth a look for going from Geneva-Chamonix in either direction €35 per person you cant really go wrong.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks RPF, I'll look into em. And we would definitely be interested in meeting up for some skiing! We would probably be willing to hitch a ride as well if it works out. Once I figure out how to sent private messages I'll shoot you one of those when I have a more concrete idea of whats happening.
Trains... I've never actually been on a long train ride... just commuter trains in Chicago, which suck. There's windows, though, it'd be kinda scenic. Hopefully. XD If not thats what sleeping is for.
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laurenl, Geneva-Venice is scenic in parts. Italian trains (unless you're on one of the new ones) are not in the same league as most trans-European services. No bar, restaurant or anything. Seat don't recline, no tables, etc.
But really, why make such a long hike to get to somewhere when there are oodles of other places so much nearer that are equally worth visiting? (Paris, Lausanne, Montreux, Lyon, Geneva itself (although, as a tourist Venice is a little more interesting than Geneva...))
Or, ski the Dolomites. - they're near Venice.
I just hate to think of you putting in such effort when it makes little sense to me. Of course, if you've harboured a dream to visit Venice since you were tiny, then don't let me put you off. There's just much easier options that will be equally rewarding. Also, Venice is eye-wateringly expensive. At least where we went. Value for money is not its strong point.
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laurenl,
Sounds good. Swiss trains are awesome they keep time like swiss watches!
To send a PM either click user / super-snowhead under the persons name or go to send/read messages just under the snowheads banner at the top of the page.
Till then enjoy the planning it gets me through the 49 weeks of the year I'm not skiing!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's starting to sound like the stereotypical American tourist mistake of "let's spend all the time criscross all over Europe and see a few far flung corners" again.
Ski Chamonix and Verbier and visit Pairs. Or visit Venice and ski the Dolomites. Skiing Cham and wasting a full day to ride a train to Venice just doesn't make sense. Would you advice some one to ski Whistler but NOT visit Vancouver, and instead train half way across the country to visit Montreal?
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laurenl, FWIW I would choose Zermatt over Verbier every time + it's iconic wheras Verbier has a very big ski area and lots of off piste, but for a first visit to Europe, I wouldn't recommend it - it's not the same sort of thing!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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laurenl, I would agree totally with easiski, Zermatt beats Verbier every time for Iconic skiing. Especially as you are wanting to tick the Europe box! Also give Venice a miss. It is not a city that is worth going to if you are on a short visit to Europe, sure it has canals and gondolas but Paris is as attractive and altogether more pleasant!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Roy Hockley, Venice and Paris are not remotely comparable. I love them both, but for entirely different reasons.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| Roy Hockley, Venice and Paris are not remotely comparable. I love them both, but for entirely different reasons. |
agree 100%.
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You know it makes sense.
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Hurtle, gortonator, sure, agree 100% but if you had 48 hours and your travel times were 3.5 vs 8-10 hours each way, which would you do?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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under a new name, the shorter, for sure.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Hurtle, gortonator, sure, agree 100% but if you had 48 hours and your travel times were 3.5 vs 8-10 hours each way, which would you do? |
depends - if I only have to go one way (which I think Lauren is planning to Venice), and/or if I can travel on train overnight (esp after a ski day) and save myself the cost of a hotel for a night. Always options ...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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gortonator, you ever taken the overnight Geneva-Venice train(s)?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
although, as a tourist Venice is a little more interesting than Geneva...
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the understatement of the year. Geneva is useful as a transport link, but it's definitely one of the duller European cities. And at that time of year it's quite likely just to be chilly, damp and drear, without a flake of snow in sight.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| gortonator, you ever taken the overnight Geneva-Venice train(s)? |
not recently, but have probably done more overnight train jorney's in Europe than most people. Great way to save time and money if you need to.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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But I don't have 48 hours. I definitely do not want to be skiing the entire trip. For one, that'd be exhausting; two, expensive, and three; there's more to Europe than skiing.
What I want to do: Land in Geneva, *maybe* give a day for jetlag but it depends when we land, otherwise head straight for Chamonix. 4 days Chamonix. 1 day- head to Verbier. 3 days there. 4 days to get to and explore Venice. Give or take 2 days.
Still, Venice appeals more to me than Paris. I don't have my heart set on either- someday I'd like to make it to both, for sure.
Maybe I should look into the Dolomites then, and some sort of Austrian resort.. fly in Munich, fly out Venice..
*shrugs* I have time to decide.
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It's certainly easy to hit great places like St Anton/Arlberg from Munich, and you're much more convenient for Venice from there. Innsbruck is a really nice town too if you want a relaxing day, and Munich is obviously well worth a visit.
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Or just fly straight into Innsbruck and do the city/ski thing all in the same go (ski during the day and city life at night)! It's a lovely city in its own right and you can see the slopes right from the city centre.
Then, train to say St. Anton (or another Austrian resort) for a few days. The famous "apres ski" in Austria must be experienced to believe!
Then, move onto the Dolomites for some more skiing and Venice for more city stuff.
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FAQ
