 Poster: A snowHead
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David L, Errmm, I though to Heli-ski you have to go to La Thuile?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David L, See, there you go again; You say La Rosiere but you talk about La Tuile and to get there you have to be able to negotiate that nasty little Red 51 and, unless they've repaired it, the crotch dislocating Bellecombe1 drag. La Thuile is a crackin' resort if a little stereotypical Italian white motorways. La Ros and La Thuile are two separate resorts that happen to have a single, skill, stamina and weather dependent tortuous link that eats into a sizeable chunk of each day's skiing. Why did you forever drag you guests over to Italy and occasionally lose them there when La Ros is skiing Nervana. Any of the OP's companions that are limited to the blues and greens will have to negotiate the rat's nest of piste in La Ros itself.
As for safety, surely by your own argument I must have a better awareness and concept than you for dangerous conditions. Plus I've skied and boarded with a significant number of slushNuts, I'm absolutely certain that they're better qualified than yourself to judge my sliding abilities and I'm happy to leave it to their judgement. You could always have contributed to sH by coming on a bash and sharing your wisdom about my abilities in person.
I've never argued that La Ros does not have good snow nor that it's not a pleasant resort. But if you want to people to have convenient access to all the benefits you're listing, punters will be better off staying La Thuile . . . AND as you are so repeatedly on record . . . They'll eat better there too.
Then we come to St Foy, a place that you've eulogised about in the past, a place where in breathy prose you've spoken about the magical draw it has for locals and instructors . . . you were certainly insistent about taking me there and clearly you continue to go there despite the attractions of La Ros . . . pourquoi?
Do you sense the pattern forming here . . . along the lines of . . . Stay with my business in La Ros and give me your money but if you want the best skiing go somewhere else . . . and you wonder why La Ros became a joke and the resort probably suffered for that.
As for learning about skiing . . . are not you the man who's on record as writing that the way to set a DIN value is to divide the skier's weight by 10? Dumb is as dumb does. There's the rub, I love sliding, you love the money you can make from it and you demonstrate that value in every pharisaism in your post above.
If you want you can come over to the Rockies and I'll be happy to show you some interesting sliding.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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15 All
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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double post (and it wasn't that funny the first time)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Guvnor, 30-Love surely 
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I can't understand why any skier, able to ski off piste, would regard La Thuile is a separate resort to La Rosiere. Cross country border skiing is a rare treat in Europe and not to be found elsewhere in the world.
The link between the two isn't a strong point but many linked resorts are like that. Even the Sella Ronda one still need to go through at least one drag lift. To go from Zermatt back to Cervinia the main route is still by long drag lifts and the links were closed 50% of the time in my last visit. The mighty Paradiski has only one cable car link between Les Arc and La Plange and this only be counted as one of the bootlenecks.
I have accessed from both the Italian and the French sides in several visits and could only met one occasion the link was closed between La Rosiere and La Thuile. It is always my impression La Rosiere/ La Thuile is a very special and pleasant resort with a lot of sunshine, obvious French and Italian charms and excellent food. I particularly like the 11km run, mentioned by David L, which uses part of the Petit St Bernard Pass that closed in the winter because I drove the same road many times on a motorbike in the summer.
It is obvious that one's meat can be another's poison so there is no point to insist one's idea of "quality" on the others.
It will serve the forum a lot better if we concentrate on the factual information of a resort, its attraction that could be of interest to other and foregt the peronsal feeling/opinions of other SH.
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Guvnor, no, no need to go to La Thuile heli-skiing takes place on th Col de Petite St Bernard which is midway between La Rosiere and La Thuile.
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| David L wrote: |
| Guvnor, no, no need to go to La Thuile heli-skiing takes place on th Col de Petite St Bernard which is midway between La Rosiere and La Thuile. |
Isn't the rule that you can take off in France but you have to land in Italy?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| saikee wrote: |
| It will serve the forum a lot better if we concentrate on the factual information of a resort, its attraction that could be of interest to other and foregt the peronsal feeling/opinions of other SH. |
It's not always easy to do that and give honest, albeit subjective, advice as it so often depends on what people are looking for. A resort with 400km of predominantly intermediate pistes might be perfect for one group, but deathly dull for another. Simply quoting the raw facts isn't terribly helpful IMO, but explaining your advice in terms of the reality of what the resort does or doesn't offer seems to be nothing more than common courtesy.
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You're not allowed to be dropped in france by helicopter in order to go skiing - so yes, you can leave france and be dropped off in italy. You can also ski down and be picked up by helicopter to be reutrned to base, which is how they get round the helisking rules if you ski down to the lake in Tignes
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Masque, get your facts right, La Rosiere and la Thuile share a single linked ski area and have done so since 1984. saikee makes the same point, no-one who knows the Espace San Bernardo regards La Rosiere and La Thuile as separate resorts they compliment each other as does the skiing which has different charcteristics.
I did regard Ste Foy as a good little resort and especially worth visiting just after a fresh snopw fall but that was before the commune increased the visitor availability from 1,500 to 5,000 beds, way more in my opinion than the resort can cope with.
The day I need any advice from you on skiing in any from is the day I'll pack up, the hilarious video of you "competing" in the Fleche is still around, always good for a chuckle or a reminder of how not to.
Your views of the quality of pistes or otherwise are obviously tempered by your expertise and experience.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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saikee, What you need to ask is why anyone would ski from La Thuile to La Ros . . . The elephant in the room is that DavιL or you for that matter can't see the irony in promoting skiing somewhere else to where you're staying as a benefit.
The OP has a mixed group, do they want to stay in touch during the day? In which case a smaller resort with a good variety of terrain and good instruction will provide then with a better shared experience than the mega areas, St Foy meets that. If mile munching is their only criteria then here are plenty in Austrian that will meet their need and at better value than France.
As for factual information, read his post again, he's talking about La Thuile and activities that are available on the Italian side of the extended area and just because it's cross border is hardly a benefit beyond cheap fags and the availability to throw money into a helicopter intake . . . oops forgot to add that Italian Piste bashers are a dam sight better skilled than the kermits.
What I object to is his and seemingly your concept that staying in a remote satellite to a large area should mask any flaws in that satellite. I like La Ros but that doesn't mean that I can't comment on its limitations and it has many.
I still agree that Tignes Le Lac would probably meet all their needs.
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| Quote: |
It will serve the forum a lot better if we concentrate on the factual information of a resort, its attraction that could be of interest to other and foregt the peronsal feeling/opinions of other SH.
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Unfortunately, skiing isn't all about "facts". That's the basic disagreement that lead to the later part of this thread.
Some skiers do NOT equate size with quality. And there's a simple reason for that. I've been in some huge resort that claim to have "efficient" links, 3V being the most famous. I found I only spend any particular day skiing 1 of the many sectors. So depending on where one choose to base oneself, I found it rather unpleasant to spend a good chunk of the day just getting to the sector I wish to ski, AND having to worry about getting back before the connector lift closes.
But even I can see, for others who found the journey itself IS the skiing, the vast linked resorts are massively fun.
And btw, this kind of preference isn't entirely ski level specific. There're plenty of black skiers who likes to cruise around a mega linked resort and same number of them just "milking" the powder stash under the same lift all day. While one beginer prefers to stay close to the home base so he/she can return "to bed" when tired, another might wish to venture to more "un-seen" terrain, etc.
The same is true of what's considered nightlife, atmosphere, or "value"...
So you see, you can't really seperate the advice/comment from the skier/SH who offer it. It needs to be view with THAT in mind.
I do agree we can use more civility on this forums though.
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You know it makes sense.
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If a mod wants to step in??
David L, A single linked area . . . it's a tenuous link that is not always available and not accessible to skiers who can't manage a tight and steep red . . . that's a big chunk of clientèle . . . and why is it so important to you? Might it be that the skiing in La Ros itself is medeocre, however good the snow?
You say that you did enjoy St Foy until the visitor numbers were increased . . . but that was more than 6 years ago and yet you clearly state you continue to go there and make no comment to the huge growth in visitor availability in La Ros and do not say that it has had any detrimental effect on piste crowding there.
I'd love to see the video of me in the Fleche, everyone knows it's not a competition and since I only managed one gate before succumbing to the severed Achilles tendon caused by some numpty that thought that dividing a skiers weight in Kg by 10 was an appropriate DIN setting it can hardly be "hilarious" more a short guffaw . . . but seriously, this is an ideal time to see this video and I invite you to post it here now.
You can join me on the snow any time you like and you're welcome to point out my flaws . . . if you can keep up? Which would you prefer? Alpine, Telemark, Snowboard or Teleboard . . . Or would BinBags at dawn be best suited to you?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| David L wrote: |
Masque, get your facts right, La Rosiere and la Thuile share a single linked ski area and have done so since 1984. saikee makes the same point, no-one who knows the Espace San Bernardo regards La Rosiere and La Thuile as separate resorts they compliment each other as does the skiing which has different charcteristics.
I did regard Ste Foy as a good little resort and especially worth visiting just after a fresh snopw fall but that was before the commune increased the visitor availability from 1,500 to 5,000 beds, way more in my opinion than the resort can cope with.
The day I need any advice from you on skiing in any from is the day I'll pack up, the hilarious video of you "competing" in the Fleche is still around, always good for a chuckle or a reminder of how not to.
Your views of the quality of pistes or otherwise are obviously tempered by your expertise and experience. |
I wish I had been able to step in earlier. Whilst they may be regarded as a single linked area IMO they may as well be different. I wouldn't visit La Rosiere to ski La Thuile. I do find La Rosiere's pistes really quite boring OTOH Ste Foys small about of groomers are varied and interesting.
Ref: Zermatt, the link might be closed but Zmatt in itself could entertain a whole group of mixed abilities, La Rosiere could not.
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Poster: A snowHead
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arv,
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| I do find La Rosiere's pistes really quite boring OTOH Ste Foys small about of groomers are varied and interesting. |
There are skiers in UK who are happy to ski in a snow dome or just a dry slope. They may find La Rosiere a paradise. In fact my ex-boss skied it first and full of praise for La Rosiere, prompting me for the later visits.
Travelling 650 to 700miles to a resort smaller even than the average Scottish resort and to spend a week there does take a bit of convincing as off piste opportunity can also be found in most resorts including those outside France.
Another example of one's meat another's poison.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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did we ever work out whether Zalin was in fact Zinal? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I haven't been able to find out where Zalin either. Bergfex lists 157 resorts or facilities in Switzerland but I couldn't loacte it.
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If the OP ever comes back he's going to get a shock! I see DavidL must be david@ traxvax....I wish people would stop changing their names on here, it makes following the b1tchslapping so much more difficult.
Anyway, google's top matches for "zalin ski -zalinski" are all on snowheads so we can be sure the OP means Zinal. I've camped there in the summer a LONG time ago but never skied there.
Who wants to kick off with "Zinal offers much more than Zermatt for a mixed group who love looking at the Matterhorn"?
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Plake,
You are right. Zinal is wedged between Zermatt and Verbier. Both could be considered rubbish by some snowheads having a bad experience with them. Scenery has long been dismissed as a quality. In any case Zinal can't complete with Ste Foy because it is too big for having more than twice the size.
I begin to understand the ideal off piste resort is to have zero piste length so that the entire mountain range can be skied off piste. Not sure how the 11km length of the Vallee Blanc is viewed though as the guide would not be pleased to allow his clients to ski a route other than the one chosen by him so I suppose it isn't a true off piste.
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| saikee wrote: |
Plake,
You are right. Zinal is wedged between Zermatt and Verbier. Both could be considered rubbish by some snowheads having a bad experience with them. Scenery has long been dismissed as a quality. In any case Zinal can't complete with Ste Foy because it is too big for having more than twice the size.
I begin to understand the ideal off piste resort is to have zero piste length so that the entire mountain range can be skied off piste. Not sure how the 11km length of the Vallee Blanc is viewed though as the guide would not be pleased to allow his clients to ski a route other than the one chosen by him so I suppose it isn't a true off piste. |
Now stop being bitchy, there's balance in all things and the OP was looking for a mixed environment for a mixed group. The comparison was raised re, La Ros and St Foy and not with Zinal. I don't know that resort so can't comment, so all you're being now is sarky for sarkie sake. If you know Zinal give us some facts but don't just say it's better 'cos it's bigger that would almost be as bad as spamming it for your son's cousin's neighbour's cat's villa, complete with hot air bum driers and wall to wall running hot chocolate.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| saikee wrote: |
Plake,
You are right. Zinal is wedged between Zermatt and Verbier. Both could be considered rubbish by some snowheads having a bad experience with them. Scenery has long been dismissed as a quality. In any case Zinal can't complete with Ste Foy because it is too big for having more than twice the size. |
How old are you? Oh.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Masque,
If you want to know Zinal, just click Bergfex I posted previously. You can see every Swiss and Austrian resort in that site which contains most of the Italian resorts too. It has German resorts too but none of the French.
The Bergfex has a map (like Google map) showing Zinal and all the surrounding areas. Try to look at the facts before offer your opinion. I don't know about Zinal either but at least I offer the information from a search so that others can make their judgement. The total piste length of Zinal is part of the information displayed.
I don't think you understand my post. If you go off piste in a mega resort with hundreds of clearly marked groomed piste you will be looked upon as an outcast by wandering off the cordoned areas. However if you are in a resort without any marked piste nobody could criticise you skiing the whole mountain or go into a dangerous area.
Not an off piste lover myself I do have a problem to distinguish which one does the true off piste. We have people like Warren Miller's gang who would not ski on anything unless it is extreme, say slope between 45 and 60 degrees. There are people do heliskiing getting powder every run. One hires a guide to ski off piste but follows a designated route but that is no much different from ski down a ski route where the surface is not prepared but sign-posted. Would a skier cross the virgin snow between two groomed runs be viewed as going off piste? Thus my question of one follows the piste's instruction down Vallee Blanc is a valid one. There are skiers after the danger, steep slopes and the risk and no life worth living for unless it is one step away from death but there are also skiers going after virgin snow, powder, unskied territory. Like I said one's meat is another person's poison.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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saikee, I have personal experience of La Ros, La Thuile and St Foy and feel entitled to comment on them . . . much to someone's disgust  . But judging a resort by it's pistemap is crass and juvenile, that's why sH is such a valued resource as people here will have personal experience of most of the resorts in Europe and can voice an opinion based on experience rather than the eclectic values a resort puts on its pistemap to meet its marketing criteria.
Just because you have no taste for off-piste and seem to have a very jaundiced view of those do, why do you think that the mega resorts have nο off-piste terrain? They all have backcountry schools and guides. You seem to be very confused as to what is skiing and limiting yourself to a very narrow part of the sport and in voicing that in the way you do you disqualify yourself from any validity in this thread.
I like skiing hard pistes very much, I also enjoy the zen pleasure of pointing my board into unmarked powder. Taking advice and not taking risks is not hazardous to mine or anyone else's health. You need to get out more and learn to enjoy the whole sport and not just the little bits that make you feel comfortable.
If you've no experience of Zinal, don't talk bollux about it 'cos I won't.
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Masque,
You still haven't told us what are the features of Ste Foy that we cannot get from the rest of the Tarentaise.
By the sound of it you are not skiing off piste for its difficulty but for the fresh snow not touched by others. Is this your definition of enjoying the whole sport? Do you not agree that one's meat is another's poison? Can't other go there to enjoy the scenery as well, may be good food, fresh air, exercise and recreational type of skiing? Can't these people get their powder and fresh snow by being the first one going up the lift in another resort? You do realise if half of the skiers from 3 Vallees listen to you and all go to your favourite resort you will not see any powder there! Therefore you are only talking about a place without too many visitors to spoil your unmarked powder. In that sense shouldn't any unpopular resort, say one that doesn't feature in TO brochure, fit your bill. Give us some hard facts of what make your favourite resort stands out as the top choice in Tarentaise. Don't compare it with La Rosiere, try Les Arc/ La Plagne and tell us its Flying kilometer, 3000+ peaks etc are no match for something you have found in Ste Foy
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You know it makes sense.
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saikee, yes I have and now you're just being being a tit
St Foy isn't my favourite resort but the OP asked about it specifically and someone else compared it with LA Ros and for his group it would be the better choice of the two. Arc 1950 would also suit and I've repeated suggested Le Lac.
Val T, Sestrière or Bormio all meet his criteria of mixed skiing with a mixed group while still having easy access to meeting points and good nightlife All have some in-bounds off piste and a all have guided out of area opportunities. The OP didn't ask about scenery . . . but that tends to be pretty good a given anywhere in the Alps.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| saikee wrote: |
| If you go off piste in a mega resort with hundreds of clearly marked groomed piste you will be looked upon as an outcast by wandering off the cordoned areas. |
Not quite sure if you meant to write that, but it is clearly nonsense.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Would a skier cross the virgin snow between two groomed runs be viewed as going off piste?
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Yes. And they might end up dead, too. Might be safe, might not.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| saikee wrote: |
| If you go off piste in a mega resort with hundreds of clearly marked groomed piste you will be looked upon as an outcast by wandering off the cordoned areas. |
Not quite sure if you meant to write that, but it is clearly nonsense. |
I do quite like the idea of all those folks, confirming nicely by staying inside the cordoned off mega pistes, leaving me the freedom and wide open spaces, away from Disneyland style resort features. I really don't give a toss what they think of me, and they can reflect on their choices in the next mega lift line they stand in. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not all but many cordoned off areas can be dangerous in the opinion of the resort owner but the off piste skiers/boarders may view the danger not applicable to them as they consider having skill above the average. The cordoned area may be difficult for the resort owner to rescue the visitors, say it is a cliff face which may be impossible to land a helicopter but it can be exhilarating to charge down and getting attention from the others. A lot of the cordoned area can also be associated with the avalanche risk. The trigger of which can endanger the other piste users in the area.
I suppose it is just a consideration for the others when one disagrees with the resort operator what should and should not be cordoned off.
PamW's view can be at the other end as when a skier on a run suddenly realizes himself/herself on the wrong piste and the correct one to be the next one running parallel. In correcting oneself by crossing a short distance with the virgin snow in between one could end up dead. I am sure in this case it must depend on the distance one has to cross. We do make mistakes when reading a piste map. Sometimes for convenience we would cross the undisturbed snow to take a short cut, say looking for lunch and find one skiing away from the restaurant.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Masque, my disgust, as you so quaintly put it, is for the fact that you pass yourself off as an expert when to my knowledge you have skied in Ste Foy on ONE day at the end of a season when snow-cover was limited, you obviously got a lot from it to be such an authority.
As far as I'm aware you haven't skied in the Espace San Bernardo for at least FIVE seasons and your sking/boarding in the area prior to that date was for about 2/3 weeks max. However, you're able to comment with total conviction and to denigrate the skiing when in fact you haven't skied anywhere near every run or explored the off-piste to any large degree. In other words you are a complete bull-artist.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowHeads gold.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Masque,
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Surely Snowheads Bullpoop
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Now you come to mention it...
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| saikee wrote: |
I suppose it is just a consideration for the others when one disagrees with the resort operator what should and should not be cordoned off.
PamW's view can be at the other end as when a skier on a run suddenly realizes himself/herself on the wrong piste and the correct one to be the next one running parallel. In correcting oneself by crossing a short distance with the virgin snow in between one could end up dead. I am sure in this case it must depend on the distance one has to cross. We do make mistakes when reading a piste map. Sometimes for convenience we would cross the undisturbed snow to take a short cut, say looking for lunch and find one skiing away from the restaurant. |
You're wondering from ignorance into nonsense!
You know, the majority of UK population who don't ski at all believe skiing is dangerous and probably shouldn't be allowed at all!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Masque,
Your dislike of the resort appears to be a personal matter. Is this fair to a resort that can have totally different conditions at other times you are not visiting?
Have you tried other Italian resorts other than La Thuile and Courmayeur? say outside the Aosta Valley into regions like South Tirol, Lombardy, Trento, Veneto and Piedmont. Switzerland, Austria, Germany and even Liechtenstein can also have resorts that you like or dislike.
If you ski La Thuile as a separate resort from La Rosiere then Portes Du Soleil, Via Lattea (Milky Way), Sivretta Valley and Breuil Cervinia/Zermatt probably mean nothing to you.
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abc,
The days of driving a car on the road is numbered, so is skiing and switching on a 2.5 kW kettle to boil water for tea.
We are polluting the environment, increasing our carbon footprint and gradually destroying the earth. If the environmentalists have their way they could go through the list of SHs, round us up and shoot all of us at the head.
I for one would not deny the charge, plead guilty and accept the consequence.
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FAQ
and will be cheaper than France . . . but the music sucks . . . really, desperately sucks . . . but that won't stop you from singing 
