 Poster: A snowHead
|
rob@rar,
| Quote: |
I'm not entirely confident that it's a high enough standard of qualification to be let loose without working in tandem with a more highly qualified instructor.
|
I think that's down to experience rather than level of qualification.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
beanie1, yes, quite possibly, although some people aren't going to pass ISIA no matter how much experience they get (I might well be in that category ) 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
a seriously competent skier might also be seriously bored if they had to spend their days leading crocodiles of pre-school pizza-turning kids down a green run.
|
and by the same argument, would a good reader, writer and adder-up be seriously bored if they had to spend their days teaching 5 year olds the 3 Rs? I can't see why a "seriously competent" skier would find teaching beginners any more boring than would a "moderately competent" skier.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
While the very bottom entry level might not require a high standard, any worthwhile qualifications do. The thing is to remember that this is talking about entry into entry level. L1 is only for plastic and snowdomes anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
easiski, that's right. It's a good starting point, but it should be seen as that if you want to progress beyong teaching in a controlled environment like a snow dome or articial slope.
pam w, if you can't take great joy in helping 5 year olds make enormous progress and having great fun with their skiing then I'd say that instructing is not for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Lowest qualification in most systems is purposely set at a low level as it's designed to be inclusive and create a pile 'em high sell 'em cheap market of instructors to teach punters the basics (exceptions being Italian and French). It's about economics not professionalism. Just as in many jobs the newly qualified only need to be good enough to fool the punters, not the professionals themselves.
easiski, anwarter/csia1/psia1 aren't much higher a level than basi level 1 in my experience
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Jonny Jones, you've got to enjoy teaching as much as, if not more than, skiing. Otherwise I think you're right if you have a diet composed entirely of beginners. |
Sounds like a great horror movie. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
laundryman, 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| snowpatrol wrote: |
| ...99% pass rate... |
I think some of these have good pass rates as some / most of the weaker skiers don't bother with the exams
eg this seemed to be the case in Fernie this year on the Nonstop course - a bunch of people only did level one and then concentrated on ski improvement rather than learning to teach for the rest of the course
clearly no company can deliver a 99% pass rate from all entrants - what about injuries?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
if you can't take great joy in helping 5 year olds make enormous progress and having great fun with their skiing then I'd say that instructing is not for you.
|
Agreed, and I'm sure the same thing happens to many of these "gap year ski instructors" as happen to most of the kids who train to become RYA dinghy sailing instructors in the hope that they get a summer job on a Greek island. I've seen it at our local club. Many of the kids were racers, and very good (one lad went on to win the Topper Nationals) but not in the least interested in instructing, especially instructing beginners. My daughter was a highly competent dinghy sailor - she learnt at a young age - but not interested in racing, so for her instructing was a genuine interest. She's now doing her Newly Qualified Teacher year - she was a genuine keen teacher, though these days she's ditched dinghy sailing for windsurfing and surfing (easier to carry the kit around) and is nowhere near good enough to instruct in either. She wasn't a technically highly knowledgeable dinghy sailor but she didn't need to be - it was her confidence-building and communication skills which were vital, plus her total control and unflappability in the boat. She couldn't have held her own in a racing fleet, but she could take beginners out in quite heavy weather and bring them back soaking wet and happy. Her most satisfying day instructing ever was with a group of profoundly deaf young people - after an evening of intensive briefing and the basics of sign language from their tutor. It was sailing that she was teaching them, but it could just as well have been something else - the satisfaction was the same.
There must be a range of different sorts of ski instructors needed, too but for most people it's just a pipe dream. And you do wonder how many people who have a spare £5K to spend on a gap year are going to be willing to work for the kind of meagre pay many ski instructors can expect to take home.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Jonny Jones, Absolutely!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| There's always the school of thought that suggests a seriously competent skier might also be seriously bored if they had to spend their days leading crocodiles of pre-school pizza-turning kids down a green run. |
Trust me, there's never a dull moment with pre-schoolers...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Jonny Jones, you've got to enjoy teaching as much as, if not more than, skiing. |
If my kids were starting over, I'd prefer them to have a teacher with that attitude than a teacher with serious technical skills. But where they are now, they need a teacher with that attitude and technical skills.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| slikedges wrote: |
Lowest qualification in most systems is purposely set at a low level as it's designed to be inclusive and create a pile 'em high sell 'em cheap market of instructors to teach punters the basics (exceptions being Italian and French). It's about economics not professionalism. Just as in many jobs the newly qualified only need to be good enough to fool the punters, not the professionals themselves.
|
I never realised there was a shortfall in Ski Instructors. If such a shortfall does exist then I can fully understand the approach to bring in low technical skiers to teach the lower levels, but given that we read often about the difficulty qualified (BASI L2+) instructors have of securing work in the mountains then is really necessay to recruit inexperienced pepole into the profession ? Is there really a demand for low level instructors or is this just a way for the industry / ski school organisations to make a quick buck ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Shortage of appropriately qualified instructors in half-term, surfeit in early January. I know a ski school which turns away business because they can't get enough ISTD instructors to work for them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
masmith,
| Quote: |
we read often about the difficulty qualified (BASI L2+) instructors have of securing work in the mountains
|
Only in certain locations. If you're L2, can ski well and have decent interpersonal skills you will have no problem getting a job, provided you don't expect to be working in France!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
rob@rar, We all turn away shedloads of business at Feb half term. that includes the ESF and ESIs.
beanie1, If you have languages and a second discipline you could probably work quite a lot here too. You'd need to do your TT of course, but anyone aspiring to ISIA should be able to pass that.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: you can work in France, you're called a stagiare and you earn less than fully qualified people - that's exactly what actually happens in Austria and Switzerland - they're just not honest enough to be so up front about it. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
easiski, fair point - but only for 3 years though right, you need to be fully qualified within that time?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
queen bodecia, The key skill of a coach is the ability to observe, de-construct and clearly communicate each part to the athlete and then by consensus, develop a strategy to either correct or improve the performance (coaching is not the same as teaching). Whilst it's always good for a coach to have performed or competed at the highest level, you'll find many that are far more skilled at observation and communication than they are at performing what they want their athletes to attempt. By this stage an athlete should have all the basic building blocks for their sport, the coach helps them in their assembling to best effect.
Teaching's another ball game altogether, I used to love taking little tots form first tentative bum plants onto the tramp bed onto their first somersaults and then into twisting and power movements. One of the greatest challenges is to make 'first steps' fun and interesting. Waving them off to the next level, knowing they have all the right tools is one of the great satisfactions. Personally, I believe that teaching kids properly is far more important than teaching adults . . . BUT . . you have to be able to both demonstrate clearly . . . AND communicate clearly . . what you require them to do . . . and NOT screw it up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
bye bye 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Masque, trampolining?!! Forgive me, but given to suggest another sport that you might be interested in I don't think I would have immediately plumped for trampolining.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Megamum, Trampolining it just brilliant for skiing aerials - AIUI the majority of the British Aeriels Ski team had a background in trampoline - not in skiing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Masque, I'll bow to your superior knowledge and stick to training adult designers then...
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Masque wrote: |
queen bodecia, The key skill of a coach is the ability to observe, de-construct and clearly communicate each part to the athlete and then by consensus, develop a strategy to either correct or improve the performance (coaching is not the same as teaching). Whilst it's always good for a coach to have performed or competed at the highest level, you'll find many that are far more skilled at observation and communication than they are at performing what they want their athletes to attempt. By this stage an athlete should have all the basic building blocks for their sport, the coach helps them in their assembling to best effect.
Teaching's another ball game altogether, I used to love taking little tots form first tentative bum plants onto the tramp bed onto their first somersaults and then into twisting and power movements. One of the greatest challenges is to make 'first steps' fun and interesting. Waving them off to the next level, knowing they have all the right tools is one of the great satisfactions. Personally, I believe that teaching kids properly is far more important than teaching adults . . . BUT . . you have to be able to both demonstrate clearly . . . AND communicate clearly . . what you require them to do . . . and NOT screw it up. |
I quite agree - and may I also share my surprise (and admiration) at the trampolineing confession 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Boing!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
slikedges, beanie1, Yes
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Megamum, and just what do you think I was best suited for?  . . . Sumo?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Just did canadian level 2 this week in second attempt.
All I can say regarding skiing - you can be a crazy skier but if you are not able to demonstrate slow percise demo turns even in bumpy terrain with angulation you will not probably pass.
For the first attempt I failed in skiing the bad point for me was that I am conter rotating with my upper body (too much separation) and my skiing nand speed is not addapted to the terrain.
My advise - learn to do everything slow and dont push yourself hard in exams.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
The best thing is to get a BASI (or other governing body) trainer to check out your skiing before investing in a course. It's 34 years since I did BASI 3 (on the old system) and nobody joined the course unless they were competent on black runs. We spent time working on the West Wall of the Coire Cas (which is a steep pitch) and doing compression turns etc.
I did plenty of teaching after that, but it didn't cover bump skiing, powder, steep terrain.
The qualifying standard may be different now. A high proportion of ski teaching is done on green/blue runs, because many people stop learning when they've got to parallel standard. A teacher who's competent at demonstrating up to parallel level on those gradients could be a very good teacher. The tougher stuff isn't necessarily relevant. As I say, it's best to be sure by consulting with someone who trains ski instructors to have a look at your skiing. |
Bloody hell DG, you just described my BASI foundation course, many moons ago
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| DaveC wrote: |
| To be fair, the point of stuff like CSIA1 is that you don't have to be that great a skier to start teaching... for teaching beginner to intermediate skiers (up to getting them parrallel), it's much more about how you teach, so long as you can demo the low end stuff reasonably well... |
Dont people have to start some where? As said above the 1st level is teaching people up to parrallel which is mainly shushing and snowplough with snowplough turns. Throw in some games balancing on 1 ski, bunny hops all for good posture is what you will teach. Theres other things but its not rocket science. As long as you can put your point across clearly and demonstrate to people your most of the way to the level 1. Its taken 9 months to get my level 1 with Snowsports, getting my hours in with someone shadowing me whilst i teach groups then my assesment. Done my 1st Aid today and am sending everything off to Snowsports  .
I can do most blacks but still need to improve my technique with short turns etc.
Im giving it a year at our dry slope teaching and improving my skiing then going onto the level 2.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
MFC, what's
?
And also what's
? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
MFC, I suspect he knew perfectly well what Schussing is. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ok I am sat reading this with my brother who in is the last year of writing a Phd in sports science on the skill acquisition of alpine skiing and we both did ski le gap, and have continued to use and work on our qualifications, my brother decided to take a gap year last minute and signed up for ski le gap having never skied before but on the basis he had heard amazing reviews and wanted to learn a new skill he considered himself sporty and figured he would be ok learning a new sport, when he called ski le gap they said yes he was welcome on the course and they had 22 CSIA Level 4 examiners, and although for first few weeks he would have 1-1 coaching and would have a steep learning curve i am sure we can bring you up to speed to the required standard. So by the end of the course after 13 weeks of grit and determination he had surpassed some of the skiers who had 25 + weeks experience as he was starting with a blank canvas and did not have years of engraned bad habbits to iron out. the season after he took his ISIA and passed not bad for someone who had never skied the year before, So i think the moral of the story is and he will back me up when it comes to the aquisition of a new skill stack 13 weeks of intensive coaching far outways years of undirected free skiing, although i will admit it is all about motivation if you want something and work hard why not go for it. I think if you are on a gap year and want an amazing time learn a new skill and gain a qualification then there is benefit too the Ski Le Gap program and 200 gap year students a year will agree "my skiing really improved and i had an amazing time". Sarah http://www.skilegap.com/ski-snowboard-instructor-courses/index/ski-gap-year.html
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
national level . . . but that was nearly four decades ago 
