 Poster: A snowHead
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DIY is the way to go if you want quality.....but most times you pay for it.
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DIY gives you more flexibility - not necessarily expensive. You can rent a decent size apartment and not fill all the beds, or cram people in - depending on your budget. It does mean you need to be prepared to be independent and take the initiative when stuff happens - for example you find Geneva airport closed because of snow, or the date of your flight, booked 6 months previously, is changed two weeks before departure, or your hired car skids off the road into a pile of snow because you left it a bit late to put the chains on, or you rock up to Grenoble airport to find all flights cancelled because of a last minute French ATC strike (all genuine and recent examples which happened to friends/relatives of ours....  ,
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Interesting replies.
Just to confirm, it was Thomson.
It looks like I'd just be lucky previously in receiving a better than average service.
The weak pound must be squeezing things really tight too.
Oh yes, I did hear some rumours that ESF had complained about the Thomson guides in the Three Valleys and they were being investigated by the Gendarmes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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tomstickland, friends go to thomson or crystal club hotels every year. They are loaded, and I can never understand why.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
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DIY is the way to go if you want quality.....but most times you pay for it.
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DIY gives you more flexibility - not necessarily expensive. You can rent a decent size apartment and not fill all the beds, or cram people in - depending on your budget. It does mean you need to be prepared to be independent and take the initiative when stuff happens - for example you find Geneva airport closed because of snow, or the date of your flight, booked 6 months previously, is changed two weeks before departure, or your hired car skids off the road into a pile of snow because you left it a bit late to put the chains on, or you rock up to Grenoble airport to find all flights cancelled because of a last minute French ATC strike (all genuine and recent examples which happened to friends/relatives of ours.... , |
It's really a matter of personality.
When that sort of "stuff" happens, a TO will deal with it. But not neccessarily picking the best alternative that suits YOU!
Example, the day I was to fly out of Aspen, a big storm rolled in, grounding most flights. Passengers were given several options: fly out on another flight 3 days later, with "flight voucher" (cash value to be used for future flights); fly out of Denver airport, with a refund of flight portion from Aspen to Denver; fly out to San Francisco/Chicago, which has space.
I opted to hire a car to drive to Denver so I can be back at work as usual. My daily pay was considerably higher than the compensation they offered me. And I would have risk losing my job had I stayed behind for 3 more days. (I lost my my job anyway 3 months later  ). The car hiring fee was offset by the partial refund of the flight. So that was teh option suited me best. But someone else might have loved the extra 3 days of skiing, with money from the airline!
Imagine if that's left to the TO rep, some people will be un-happy with whatever one-size-fit-all solution.
It's interesting to hear so many choose TO for the "convenience" of not having to "worry" about anything. Part of the appeal of package tour to me, is the ready-made companion. But my biggest fear has always been what if something "happened"? The tour ops is likely to choose the least expensive alternative, which may left me in a position I may not prefer...
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 25-03-09 23:00; edited 2 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Helen Beaumont wrote: |
| tomstickland, friends go to thomson or crystal club hotels every year. They are loaded, and I can never understand why. |
Because they don't spend much on their ski hols, maybe.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Great post (the first one that is). I nodded continuously as I read it as it all sounded so familiar and I knew it was Crystal / Thomson without a doubt.
It is a tough one because, as others have said, you get what you pay for to a certain extent. But having said that the Crystal offering perplexes me because they do much (flights, transfers, accomodation) very well but then are let down by resort and staff management issues which would actually cost very little, if anything, to fix.
My most recent Crystal holiday was last year and it was my first for several years. While I could accept certain failings when it came to the staffing of the chalet I could not tolerate the environmental health failings which went unchecked and which would get a kitchen shut down if inspected. I was minded to take a nose around the kitchen of our chalet following my never ill daughter having a night of severe vomiting which cost us a day of ski-ing. And what I found was quite revolting. The smell on opening the fridge made me wretch. The whole fridge was filthy and had clearly not been cleaned all season and the bottom food drawers were an inch deep with rancid liquid from decayed food. Uncooked meat and vegetables were piled on top of each other. It was quite unbelievable. And the sink and dishwasher were no better. Myself and other guests tried complaining to the resort manager who just did not seem interested so we took it upon ourselves to blitz the whole kitchen with bleach.
Ultimately these sort of problems arise when:
- chalet staff are not properly trained on food and kitchen hygiene
- resort management do not check that chalet staff are following procedures
So while you have to accept cetain limitations due to the low price of the holiday there is no excuse for hygiene which puts people's health at risk.
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resort and staff management issues which would actually cost very little, if anything, to fix
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Actually it would cost rather a lot, since it would involve paying for proper staff. Neither they nor you are prepared to do that.
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we took it upon ourselves to blitz the whole kitchen with bleach.
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You might be interested to know that it's illegal here to use bleach in a commercial kitchen. It's a dangerous poison.
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We usually look for something mid-range and the last two years have been with Powder White on accommodation only (full packages make no sense for us from here and our group like to be able to organise their travel as they want). Last year was an extremely last minute deal - booked 6pm Friday for the next day. 12 person chalet and 2 chalet hosts all to ourselves, 299 a head. Food good, if not cordon bleu, young chalet hosts enthusiastic even in the last week of the season. So we booked again this year, in advance, effectively full price, and again had a great week. Our sole chalet host was an 18-year-old gap year lad and he really couldn't have been more professional. He skied hard but he was never late and he never skimped his duties to get out quicker. So, for us, it's well worth paying a little extra to a company that pays its staff a bit more
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've been with Thomson/Crystal for my last three trips and would always choose TO over DIY. It does seem here as though the staff were the principal reason for your disappointment, so this must clearly call into question the type of people TUI employ and the training they undergo. Both holidays I've had to Italy I've been very lucky with resort staff and stayed in nice hotels. The reps in question were 'professional' reps who were employed by TUI year round, skiing in winter, lakes/mountains in summer and clearly knew their stuff...
However in Austria last year I stayed in a Crystal chalet. It was very basic (supposedly two stars, but looked more boarding house standard to me), but it was clean, the food delicious and the chalet hostesses did a fantastic job. However they had had trouble with chefs and had to pay temporary agency chef that week as they'd just been left in the lurch again. The reps varied from excellent to clueless but enthusiastic (I did laugh when I had to become an interpreter for one of them because he didn't speak German after having lived in Austria for 4 months!)...
Clearly things have changed since I did a season as a Resort Manager back in 1991/2. One of the conditions of my employment was being able to speak the language and I then went on a six week training course before the season began, not to mention being checked up on by the area rep every couple of weeks in resort. There wasn't really any margin for mistakes or shoddy customer service then. And yes, I was a 'gap year' student (between first and second degrees). The pay was pathetic but I did have a fully paid season in a great resort with equipment and lift pass thrown in. I did it for that, not the money...
I sincerely hope TUI take notice of their customer feedback and look again at the quality/training of their staff, it can make such a difference to people's holidays. I made sure to grade the reps in Courmayeur this season as excellent, they truly were. But this should really be the benchmark for all of their staff...
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tomstickland, I had a similar holiday with very similar dirty accommodation in Les Deux Alpes (Chalet Emilie, booked through Airtours. Crystal are now doing this Chalet). We got there at about 1pm and the Chalet Host was basically sitting in the living room with his feet up smoking a cigarette; there was sheets and bedding all over the floor. We initially thought that he was in the middle of cleaning everything as it was changeover day. However, over the course of the week, it soon transpired that the Chalet was filthy. On the Chalet Host day off, we went into the kitchen and it was really bad (the dishtowel could practically walk on its own!!).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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TO chalets are a lottery, with (IME) about 50% of getting a decent one. The problem is, as has been said, the staff. TOs generally employ undertrained amateurs with little ability to run a chalet and no real interest, as apart from anything else most of them are off to uni and will never again demean themselves by working in a service industry (until they graduate, obviously, and find that they have to work in a call centre).
School leavers with a few weeks training are unlikely to be willing or able to do a proper job of running a chalet. The only really good chalets I have stayed in were run by slightly older people, some of whom had a long term interest in the catering business; none of the ones run by 17/18 yos were up to much, although some were OK, just.
The daughter and I are off to Tignes in a couple of weeks to stay in a chalet hotel. It's cheap, and we (or at least I) have no great expectations. The only other time I stayed in a chalet hotel, about 100 years ago, with Mark Warner in Courmayeur, it was fairly ropey. The hotel itself was fine, very comfortable and convenient, but the grub, prepared largely by Brit school leavers, was pretty poor.
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I have been in the supermarket in Bourg St Maurice twice when the big name tour operators were doing their weekly shop (they have the names on their fleeces!). I was horrified to se the ingredients they were putting in their trolleys. They were the cheapest, poorest quality they could buy and personally I would rather self -cater. This way I get good high quality food/wine and a cheaper holiday cost all in as well.
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You know it makes sense.
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ruthie, I've seen some of them in Briancon too. I know which operators I would recommend to anyone wanting a chalet holiday in Serre Chevaleir, and they wouldn't be any of the major operators.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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OldHacker, welcome to snowHeads by the way. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Lizzard - not sure I agree that it would cost much to fix the key staff and management issues. I have been on several Mark Warner summer and winter holidays the past few years and many of their staff are very similar people to the chalet staff I came across on my Crystal holiday (generally bright and personable gap year students). The key difference seems to be the training and procedures they are given and the checking that they are actually doing it. The standard of the cooking on the Crystal holiday was actually excellent. It was just basic hygiene and cleanliness which was lacking. Sure it would put a BIT extra on the cost of each holiday to improve and extend training and resort level supervision but I WOULD be happy to pay that for a clean chalet and food which is hygenically stored and prepared.
In my view Crystal are getting most things right but falling down in one key area which, from the post on here, is one which would make sense for them to act upon. At the end of the day you get the same snow, runs, lifts on your ski holiday whether you stay in a 5 star hotel or budget TO offering which is why so many opt for the budget option. If the budget TO's get the basics right then they could really clean-up *no pun intended* in the market.
BTW - probably was not bleach. It was whatever cleaner / disinfectant they have in the chalet kitchen. Needless to say it was in an UNOPENED bottle under the sink !
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resort and staff management issues which would actually cost very little, if anything, to fix
Actually it would cost rather a lot, since it would involve paying for proper staff. Neither they nor you are prepared to do that.
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we took it upon ourselves to blitz the whole kitchen with bleach.
You might be interested to know that it's illegal here to use bleach in a commercial kitchen. It's a dangerous poison.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| tomstickland wrote: |
It's all small stuff, but it added to the impression that someone, somewhere really didn't quite care enough.
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For £405 all up I'm not really surprised!
If you want everything to be perfect, you're better off staying well away from the budget TO market. If you pay those prices you have to expect things to be a bit ropey. |
Not necessarily.
I paid £375 (booked 6 weeks in advance) for flights, transfers and 4* half board accommodation for my trip to Ellmau last week (With Neilson). For that I got a large single room (bed, double settee, comfortable armchair & table, large wardrobe and still plenty of floor space), good buffet breakfast including some hot options, apres ski snack each day, and four/five course meal with a choice of main and dessert buffet, plus a good wellness area.
The rep wasn't at all pushy, and was still quite happy to chat on the coach after being told I had my own kit and wouldn't buy the pass through him as I wanted to ski on arrival.
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FAQ
