 Poster: A snowHead
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My complaint about High Altitude, the Skiing media and to some extent forums such as this, is that it has little relevance to what most of us do, i.e. once-a-year piste bashers.
My experience is that it takes three days to get to where you were the previous year, leaving three days for improvement.
The reality is unless you have been fortunate to live in the mountains or have worked as saisonaires, you probably have little chance to improve to being save on the edges of the piste, let alone heli-skiing.
Instead of promoting fat skis, heli-skiing and ski-mountaineering, how about some good resort reviews, tests of intermediate skis, technique articles etc. This is what most skiers must be looking for in a magazine programme.
Strikes me that all High Altitude promoted last night was encouraging the poorly qualified (me) to think I should go off piste, or I am a wimp. From my limited experience of off piste (guided) I learnt my limitations and now have considerably more enjoyment on the piste with my wimpy sub-75mm waisted skis.
Finally, as an experienced past practitioner in the windsurfing industry, the ski industry could learn from it in that if a sport becomes to technical and sells unattainable aspirations, it can disappear up its own a**e.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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tuxpoo, Chris Landsea had no dispute on the core issues, ie global warming, his dispute is with one fellow scientist in the IPCC who held a press conference on Landsea's area of expertise and made claims, that Landsea disagrees with.
At no point does Landsea claim that global warming is not a reality, is not man made and will not continue. The reality is that Landsea had already contributed to IPCC publications which supported the position that golbal warming was man made. This resignation had little to do wth science and everything to do with ego.
Recall what Kissinger once said about "academic fights are always so vicious becuase the stakes are so low"
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| DavidYacht wrote: |
Instead of promoting fat skis, heli-skiing and ski-mountaineering, how about some good resort reviews, tests of intermediate skis, technique articles etc. This is what most skiers must be looking for in a magazine programme.
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a TV version of the Daily Mail ski mag. awesome!!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
laundryman, leave it out.
Here's an up-to-date report on the state of the glaciers, from Bloomberg (reporting the World Glacier Monitoring Service):
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=ajCBthQzAiU4&refer=home
Whether skiing - as a community and an industry - wishes to accept the evidence of scientific bodies like this or the United Nations' IPCC is up to skiing. It's then up to skiing to do something about it. |
The world's glaciers have been melting for over 10k years.
Long before the Industrial Revolution.
Scientists just dug up a fossilized subtropical turtle near the Arctic Circle.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Arno wrote: |
| DavidYacht wrote: |
Instead of promoting fat skis, heli-skiing and ski-mountaineering, how about some good resort reviews, tests of intermediate skis, technique articles etc. This is what most skiers must be looking for in a magazine programme.
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a TV version of the Daily Mail ski mag. awesome!!! |
Arno, unfortunately that's the answer that makes the most sense.
I work in publishing consumer magazines that teach people how to fish. We have to stick pretty much to the model that brings in the most sales, as most other mags do, and I expect TV is no different. We do very basic stuff that anyone can follow and don't do really advernturous stuff because we know the majority of the readers won't ever try it or want to try it.
I'd like to know exactly what the maxim of High Altitude is - is it to promote general snow sports? Extreme snowsports? Get newcomers into it? Then you have to consider what the 'majority' will want to watch.
As is the case with internet forums, posters almost always think they represent the 'majority'. However, you'll see from the vast number of diverse posts that SHs has all levels of ski and board fanatics. That's great on a forum when you can say what you want (within reason) and generally get and answer back that suits you. With a TV programme though you have one chance to appeal to the viewer otherwise they'll switch off, hence why it's exciting stuff with no real point because it doesn't exclude anyone. If it was 30 minutes of someone going off piste then we might as well buy those Warren Miller DVDs that someone's already mentioned.
If they wanted to do a recuitment drive to get people interested generally in skiing and boarding then I expect we'd be seeing a Wish You Were Here or Holiday type programme - but that would be equally panned on here I suspect.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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David,
High Altitude is entertaining, your posts are not.
Richard
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
laundryman, leave it out.
Here's an up-to-date report on the state of the glaciers, from Bloomberg (reporting the World Glacier Monitoring Service):
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=ajCBthQzAiU4&refer=home
Whether skiing - as a community and an industry - wishes to accept the evidence of scientific bodies like this or the United Nations' IPCC is up to skiing. It's then up to skiing to do something about it. |
The world's glaciers have been melting for over 10k years.
Long before the Industrial Revolution.
Scientists just dug up a fossilized subtropical turtle near the Arctic Circle. |
Although, as you know, they've advanced and retreated a few times in the interim (and all, with the possible exception of the current retreat, nothing to do with human activity).
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| Specialman wrote: |
| Arno wrote: |
| DavidYacht wrote: |
Instead of promoting fat skis, heli-skiing and ski-mountaineering, how about some good resort reviews, tests of intermediate skis, technique articles etc. This is what most skiers must be looking for in a magazine programme.
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a TV version of the Daily Mail ski mag. awesome!!! |
[b]Arno[/b
I'd like to know exactly what the maxim of High Altitude is - is it to promote general snow sports? Extreme snowsports? Get newcomers into it? Then you have to consider what the 'majority' will want to watch.
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I think it's just aimed at being adrenalin fueled, jolly good fun in the snow and mountains designed to appeal to as wider audience as possible. World cup slalom is only going to appeal in the main to hardened race fans, to non skiers it would be a liitle dull. Wish you were here type stuff is going to appeal to those who can't decide where to go on holiday and would soon become boring, just watch sky travel 'Ski USA & Canada' to see what I mean!!!! and hardcore extremists who want to watch K**bs skiing overhangs and 500 degree slopes in Alaska will go and buy Warren Miller DVDs..... BUT..... and this is the key...... all of the above (bar a few exceptions) would happily tune into HA and enjoy it.
This is designed to get fat dad on the sofa shouting 'Ere Elsie, turn the chip pan off and come look at this.... that bloke out of two pints that you watch is about to jump out of a helicopter down the front of a mountain!' as well as appealing to us mountain lovers and extreme skier wannabees... I think they have got the mix pretty much down to appeal to the masses... even my wife was glued to the set when Ralph Little was chucked out of the chopper over the Eiger.... and she absolutely hates snow, mountains and basically anything that's not sand n sun. She even checked midweek to see if I was recording the next one on Sky+!! Job done BBC I'd say!!
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 2-02-09 16:00; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This statement, from John Christie, an IPCC lead author, is couched with a proper sense of our current state of knowledge:
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Atmospheric carbon dioxide continues to increase due to the undisputed benefits that carbon-based energy brings to humanity. This increase will have some climate impact through CO2's radiation properties.
However, fundamental knowledge is meagre here, and our own research indicates that alarming changes in the key observations are not occurring. |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7081331.stm
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Vipa, spot on. Good anaylsis. It's uncanny how you know my mum's name and that my dad is a fatty who lounges on the sofa watching Two Pint Of Lager And ... all day 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think I'm with DG on this.
While I would never claim to be a knit your own shoes environmentalist I am very suprised that a lot of the people who ski seem to have little or no connection with the environment. Unlike surfers, for example, who seem very in-tune with the natural events that allows their sport to happen, skiers seem to be a very selfish, spoilt lot who appear to not give a damn about anyone else. Most explorers/adventurers I know or the climbers seem to be more sensitive the environment too. So why not the skiers. I think it maybe because to a certain extent it's just a bunch of people on holiday and people on holiday quite often don't want to take on more responsibility or own more problems than they already have.
It would be interesting to hear what those who live in the mountains think about climate change.
I think HA was better when it was more fun with people learning ski tips and other featured items. The extreme sports stuff is OK, but it isn't really life in the mountains, it's more about high adrenaline activities for wannabes. DG, the heli skiing excess is distasteful but not because of climate change just because it is something which doesn't connect with the mountains. It's about minimal effort for maximum cost. I dread to think what type of people you'd meet in a helicopter probably some Hedge fund manager from Hertfordshire. It's all too flash and eighties for me.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| johnnyh wrote: |
| While I would never claim to be a knit your own shoes environmentalist I am very suprised that a lot of the people who ski seem to have little or no connection with the environment. |
I think that it is a misreading of views on here. Not being convinced of the more lurid claims of environmentalists is not the same thing as a lack of connection with, or care for, the environment.
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My car is buried in about 15 cm of climate change at the moment ...
Heli-skiing is awesome and I would love to do it one day, the effect on the environment (should MMGW turn out to be real which is a big if) is so minimal as to be insignificant. If everyone on snowheads went Heli-skiing every single day it would not make the slightest bit of difference when you look at the big picture.
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You know it makes sense.
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I said connection not care, laundryman. Actually it was reading the views on here that absolutely convinced me about other posters opinions.
I'm not an environmentalist, I'm probably more a sceptic at heart, but actually looking at the evidence I'm afraid climate change is happening even if you'd rather it wasn't. Is it man-made? Perhaps it's helped by man? But I think the real point would be to reduce one's impact on the environment in a negative way regardless of whether you were causing the ice caps to melt. It's a no brainer really, don't over use, don't waste, don't pollute etc. The heli-skiing is probably more symbolic of one those activities where you don't really have to do it if you think carefully about what you're actually doing. There are other less selfish ways to enjoy the mountains.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
If everyone on snowheads went Heli-skiing every single day it would not make the slightest bit of difference when you look at the big picture.
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Not true. Sorry, but that is a great illustration of the dilluded and somewhat selfish attitude that people seem to take these days. It's in these circumstances where we should exercise a little more understanding and responsibility and realise we all have an impact.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| johnnyh wrote: |
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If everyone on snowheads went Heli-skiing every single day it would not make the slightest bit of difference when you look at the big picture.
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Not true. Sorry, but that is a great illustration of the dilluded and somewhat selfish attitude that people seem to take these days. It's in these circumstances where we should exercise a little more understanding and responsibility and realise we all have an impact. |
I think this thread should be split into 2.... There is a valid argument and discussion to be had re climate change and Snowheads...
As far as HA is concerned, they are not condoning anything, they are not suggesting one thing is better than another, they are attracting viewers from both the skiing and non skiing populations.... A job which up to now they seem to be doing admirably
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If it is mad-made, we can influence it..to a degree...if it isn't, then what we do doesn't matter a hill of beans, it will happen anyway.
Besides, I'll off-set it by not driving to work for a few days.... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It is true, I would bet that one of those coal power stations they are knocking up in China every few days throws out more pollution in a single day than Heli-skiing worldwide does in a year, hell probably in 10 years. Gesture politics.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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troublemaker, the point is to take personal responsibility for your planet. You have stated two different arguments like comparing oranges with footballs. It makes no sense to say they're doing it big time so it doesn't matter a damn what I do, I'll do whatever I want.
Still you are a troublemaker, so I guess you're behaving to type.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| troublemaker wrote: |
It is true, I would bet that one of those coal power stations they are knocking up in China every few days throws out more pollution in a single day than Heli-skiing worldwide does in a year, hell probably in 10 years. Gesture politics. |
There are two points I want to make here (only the first directly related to your post).
First, the impact that Heli-Skiing has (or any other activity) is not affected by the impact other activities have. The old adage "two wrongs don't make a right" applies to this as much as to anything else, along with "take care of the pennies and the pounds will take care of themselves". i.e. if we all make a small difference, then that adds up to a large difference. If everybody thinks it isn't worth it because it is only a small part, then nothing gets done.
The second point is that I don't really believe in man made climate change being particularly significant, but that is irrelevant. We need to be more "environmentally conscious" because we are simply going to run out of resources - particularly fossil fuels.
And I am as hypocritical as the next man on this, because I do still fly for leisure purposes. But I will be surprised if that is still possible (unless alternative power sources for aircraft are developed) when I am 100, because fuel will be much too scarce to be squandered on anything not essential.
We must start using renewable sources for as much of our power as we possibly can.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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alex_heney, nuclear will be a good stop-gap.
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| Quote: |
We need to be more "environmentally conscious" because we are simply going to run out of resources - particularly fossil fuels.
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Yep, my point too. And we probably agree a bit on the man made bit as well, although I've shifted over the last few months based on things I've seen and read, in that I'm thinking there maybe some connection. Neverthless, it is actually more relevant to simply say well who ever is right, lets just all apply some degree of responsibility to the issue.
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I couldn't think of many things worse than heli-skiing, but that's personal preference. As to it being selfish and an irresponsible contributor to global warming then I just don't get that argument. There are hundreds of things we do each day which are not vital to our survival, we do them because we gain fullfilment from them. For example, should we all switch off our PCs unless they are required for work, should none of us holiday unless we walk to the destination, should we only eat food with minimal food miles, shall we all get rid of our pets etc; the list would be endless. Just because heli-skiing isn't your thing, there's no need to to get all sanctamonious and hide behind the climate/environment argument because you're not exactly being green being on here in the first place.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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nuclear isn't that renewable, but I agree there are some valid reasons for it over fossil fuels.
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johnnyh, I really don't believe in man made global warming. My post was more for people that do. My conscience would be perfectly clear driving to the airport in a Porsche, flying to the resort and then going Heli-skiing.
alex_heney, I won't argue about needing to switch to renewable energy, the technology is already there it is just the will and financial incentive that is lacking.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
For example, should we all switch off our PCs unless they are required for work,
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Yes - don't leave them on standby it costs YOU and the planet
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should none of us holiday unless we walk to the destination
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No, go on holiday but think about your impact and do what ever you can to limit it.
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should we only eat food with minimal food miles
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Yes and No. You shouldn't eat food (for example fruit) out of season as it's likely to taste crap and have travelled half way round the planet to get to your plate. If no one bought it the supermarket's wouldn't stock it. Again if you bothered to think about it you can easily see what is the better choice for you and for everyone else you share the planet with.
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all get rid of our pets
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If they are chickens - no you can eat their eggs and maybe even eat them. Cats and Dogs, well that's your choice of course.
HH, a heli-ski flight is what DG the original poster was talking about, hence the discussion. On the scale of things you can do on the mountains it is right up there with making a big impact in relation to it's CO footprint/noise/all other things people have said before. It's a pretty selfish way to ski when you look at it objectively and consider the number of people who might be on a heli-ski flight.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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johnnyh,
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It's a pretty selfish way to ski when you look at it objectively and consider the number of people who might be on a heli-ski flight.
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So what about people that take pleasure flights, be it in the mountains, over the Grand Canyon etc. They do it because it is a great way to take in the view, heli-skiing is just an extension of this. Is it just the combination of helicopter rides and skiing that you object to?
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No, heli-skiing is about the skiing not the heli ride therefore you can achieve this as DG and others have said via skins and a bit of effort. Heli-skiing = FAIL.
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You know it makes sense.
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Let's cut to the chase. Ban all ski lifts. I would expect that the pollution/climate change impact of heliskiing pales into insignificance compared to the impact of (yes I know the French do it new-clearly) running all the ski lifts.
Ban also all air travel as even though it's a relatively minor carbon source, it's clearly a rich man's sport,
And to be a little egalitarian, ban all TV. By far the biggest climate change driver of "High Altitude" is the cost of creating all the TVs and the electricity to broadcast to and operate them.
In for a penny...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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under a new name,
me senses you jest.
There's nothing wrong with principles and the more environmentally friendly we all become then all the better is all I can say. However, I think you might be with me on this one whereby those who holiday abroad and chat away on internet forums might somewhat be kettles calling the pot black if they are trying to push the green argument to such an extent.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I just watched High Altitude and I agree with those of you who found it irresponsibly fluffy. A full on avalnche training course hopefully involves more than hiding in a cosy but spacious hole waiting for a dog to sniff you out! And while I really liked Jodie Kidd's can-do attitude to having a go, why would you take someone into the back country with zero off piste experience?
And that Tirolean traverse - totally gratuitous and unnecessary. It was more like an episode of the Jack Osborne show "adrenalin junkie". I have nothing against the Jack O show - at least it is honest about just being for thrills.
Grump!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ban the Internet, while we're at it...those data centres use a LOT of power.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| laundryman wrote: |
| alex_heney, nuclear will be a good stop-gap. |
A good stop-gap indeed but unlikely to be used to power aircraft.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Levitt, of course. - that's why we should use it for most everything else.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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HH, you noticed? darn, I thought I sounded quite convincing.
laundryman, for the moment, probably, although what to do with the waste is a thornier problem. But on balance vs burning "fossil" fuels? I suppose carbon can always be sequestrated... 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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under a new name, I'd keep it on site. No sense moving it around the country.
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havent read all this thread cos, well...um well, can't be arsed. here's my tuppence anyhow: thought it was a bit daft (Tirolean jobbie). As for the chop-chop, did there end up being a lucky situation when it had to divert to a rescue - possibly closer to casualties by being out on the hill carrying BBC about than sitting at base???? just a thought - for all the eco-nazis out there is pulling someone out alive less important than a few more grams of the good stuff being pumped out???
anything with the lovely Jodie in is good enough for me - great lips for cooling soup that girl
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Puts 2p on the table...
I believe we are contributing to the warming of the planet. Its been warming since the end of the last ice age and now we are contributing.
How do we halt the extra warming we are adding? Simple, we nuke China and India.
If that is unpalatable, then accept that there is pretty much jack we can do. Although the western nations are a major contributor to global warming, by far the biggest contributor in recent times and times since we realised it was getting warmer faster, are the developing nations. Why is this? Because we want to buy the cheap stuff they make and, as they get more prosperous, sell them the stuff we make.
One thing is for certain, the climate has always changed. Can I make a difference, by not heli boarding? No!
Live with it, or get the nukes out and put, or put us back to the medieval times and watch everyone else put out more warming gasses. If, indeed, they are a cause.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I want to go heli-skiing but I'm not good enough. Please don't ban it until I've had a go (about 10yrs  )
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FAQ
