 Poster: A snowHead
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Arno, Of course. there is no 'should be' about it. Everyone is different and will be happy at their own level. However it's my experience that people who say "I'll just be happy on blues" once they get there begin to aspire to reds and so on. this doesn't mean to say that everyone should hope to ski every slope in the end, but that if they're learning constantly their ability may, and probably will, exceed their initial aspirations.
DaveC, Apologies.
Following this thread I asked my 1 week (very good) student who'd done a week in Canada last year if he'd learned side slipping and he hadn't - so we did it. For the life of me I really don't get that (or the traversing - but let's not go there) argument. Skills - edging skills particularly are one of the most important things - ask anyone who came to that really icy Mondial! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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easiski, good post. Improvement provides enhancement to the fun that can be experienced on skis, thus can become quite addictive. Goals can tend to elevate over time.
As far as the sideslip issue, few recreational skiers I work with come to me able to do even the most basic version of it well,,, much less the higher level versions I teach. And many are people who've been skiing for years. With that, and the voids I also see in even the most basic balance skills, why the intermediate plateau exists is no mystery to me. Many schools teach skiing with the sole intent of fast tracking people to some form of competence, and in doing so send them down a dead end road.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Butterfly wrote: |
Lizzard, Nice!
Thanks to DaveC, easiski, FastMan, for some good encouraging stuff that makes me feel a whole lot better about my not-so-rapid journey along the learn-to-ski road. I (and I know many others) really appreciate the time people take to give opinions, help and advice on threads like this. |
You're most welcome, Butterfly. Just remember to treat the journey as part of the fun. There's no final arrival, there's simply many points of interest along the way, each providing their special pleasures. Enjoy the ride.
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| slikedges wrote: |
easiski, FastMan, good posts both and many useful views for those who ponder (and they will) this.
Only thing I'd add is people are competitive. Against others, against scales, against higher qualifications, against themselves. It's human nature. That's why there are scales of achievement and competence in, well, anything that someone can devise an intelligible scale for. Including skiing. Most (not all) are designed for ski school class organisation, knowing who can ski together, what level of ski/boot/thermal jockstrap to buy, but actually it's not only kids who need levels to help them know how they're doing, give some small recognition for a step in the right direction, know what the next step to aspire to should be, and yes, to know that they're better than the other kid! It's just another facet and it doesn't in any way stop it from being fun.
Of course it's notoriously tricky to design a good scale, hence, well, there isn't really one that I'm aware of. A skills based one would be good but of course that'd require professional and impartial assessment, and as learning skiing is a customer initiated and focused leisure activity this could be tricky in itself, so ski shop scales are the common surrogates.
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Yes, I agree with that. I've spent the bulk of my time in the sport of skiing on the competitive side of it, both as a racer, and as a coach. The race course provides probably the most precise scale of skill measurement in the sport. The clock does not lie, and every race provides a harsh dose of reality for the world to see of what your skill level actually is. It's a reality easily avoided when boasting of freeskiing prowess from a bar stool.
It's been through that association with reality that I've learned what's really needed to improve results. It happens by building a strong base of foundation skills. There are no shortcuts. I've worked the process year after year, and it always works. For so long I developed great skiers within my little world, and watched around me as so many recreational skiers floundered for their lack of even the most basic skills. It's why I've changed course with what I do. It doesn't need to be that way, and for those who really are interested in improving their skiing, but are kind of at a loss as to how to go about it, there is a well proven path available to them. Improve the skills, elevate the fun factor, and let the numbers take care of themselves.
OK, time for me to get back to the grindstone.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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When I started out I did make rapid progress in that I was confident up to a point on steep ground / off piste and didn't mind crashing many times a day. But my technical skill set (or lack of it) was holding me back so each year I try to get some lessons in on various aspects. And as FastMan and easiski say... it's the foundation skills that allow you to develop and keep on learning. I am still working on the drills given to me in my lessons, it's not much trouple to start a fresh days skiing with some basic balance practice... or get on an empty easy run and see what happens when you vary edge angles at speed... or see how much control you can keep in the bumps.
The day I start carving turns switch on one leg will be the day I think to myself... OK... I'm getting to be quite a good skier 
Lets face it.. Olympic athletes are pretty much at the top of their game and they still spend vast amounts of their time being coached.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 12-01-09 23:13; edited 1 time in total
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FastMan, "many schools teach..." and I expect many pupils expect that "rapid" progress to a level of competence and then complain about getting stick there ("on the plateau") thereafter. But spending a whole lesson sideslipping is rarely made fun (and even more rarely seen as fun) and if you only have 6 days a year on snow...
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under a new name, otoh it's a lot more fun to feel you are learning an essential skill than to find yourself out of your depth with no "get out of jail" card....
Like most people, I have a preferred side on which to side slip or hockey stop, but was pleased to find that when I needed a side slip in earnest on the "wrong" side the other week that it worked fine. Yet when I practice it, I feel unbalanced. Funny that it suddenly feels fine when the alternative is not good
easiski, ah, yes, that icy Mondial. That was "fun". Jolly useful - in fact conveyed some vital skills (when I can remember them) but not an experience I'm keen to repeat in a hurry!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Side slipping is a skill that seems easier to deploy when I need to - often on that rock hard noisy packed surface - than to practice in softer snow during a lesson (I've never had a lesson that we didn't try it in). I always assumed I couldn't easily do it, yet on two occasions now when chickening out over a icy section on a red I've accomplished it because it was 'needed' just by applying what I'd been told to do in lessons. The skis just seem to slide easier and more freely over the hard packed snow. Although in the situations I hadn't enjoyed having to do it I now 'know' that I can sort it when needed and that knowledge alone is a valuable confidence builder to carry with me.
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I'm on the kids side of our ski school so don't really teach it to the kids without poles (so under 10s) - too hard to get them to move laterally, they have a lot of trouble sidestepping too. I tend to use the falling leaf drill to get people to work on their stance and "feel" how edging deflects their movement rather than directly say "this is side-slipping" too - no real reason or conviction in not directly naming the skill, but I can imagine people just linking powerslides rather than steering if it gets used as a crutch too often.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Scarpa, only from the safety of the web thank heavens!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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An empty wide black with good grippy snow often feels way easier than a crowded scraped up red. If you go too fast simply turn uphill. As long as you have the basic skills just take each stage seperately. Forget about the colours... look at the terrain, the snow, the crowdedness and go for what looks like fun. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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under a new name, No-one mentioned spending a whole lessons side-slipping! 5- 10 minutes in a 1.5 hour lesson is usually enough, but it can be repeated regularly. Yes - it's not much fun to do and to practise (which I always say to my students), but I also emphasize the need to be able to do it comfortably. No-one (especially a first or second week skier) knows when they're going to arrive at the top of that much too steep slope with no escape route, it might be tomorrow - or not for 3 weeks .... if you can't get down it what do you do? More dangerous than anything else to take off your skis and walk. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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What is this "ski-ing"? Where's that hyphen come from?!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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That's twice I've seen 'Falling Leaf' mentioned - I thought it was a boarding term 
It's not in the ski terms glossary, if someone can confirm it is applicable to skiing I'll ask that it be added.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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jonm, ha ha ... HURTLE ...!!!!!!
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Megamum, backwards and forwards side-slip... absolutley essential when lost in tight steep trees...
TT's are good here
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| jonm wrote: |
| What is this "ski-ing"? Where's that hyphen come from?! |
Perhaps that should've been ski=ing
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easiski, I didn't mean to imply a whole lesson of it (although I see that I did - and my late ex-wife did spend a whole lesson doing just that, once). I guess I really implied side slipping as a catch all for essential skill that don't get taught as often as they should as they're perhaps perceived as boring. My imprecision, my bad.
I spend much time side slipping. No idea what one would do without it...
Uncomfortable moments in skiing #1024; (the party has just committed itself irrevocably to steep, icy pitch),
Responsable, "It's fine, just side slip gently down to me,"
Ir-responsable, "Side-what?? aaarrghh.................."
Last edited by After all it is free  on Tue 13-01-09 17:31; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| jonm wrote: |
| What is this "ski-ing"? Where's that hyphen come from?! |
I thought it was the dictionary!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Very good comments on here from the pro's.
I've found that the more I ski and progress, the more I become aware I'm not that good at it
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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easiski you was too nice.......they are crab...sometime I hear people talking about carving and they have no idea what mean have fun......there is always someone better than us.......and it is not a race........also me I'm an instructor and after a lot of work I can say that the level depend from the caracter of the client......confident or not.......important it is also the phisical condition.....you are fit or not........BUT THE ONLY IMPORTANT THING IS HAVE FUN......YOU COME ON THE MOUNTAIN FOR SLIDE DOWN NOT FOR SHOW OFF.......and easy ski who know me very well she know that I'm the worst show off of les 2 alpes......but in my case it is just a way for find clients.......I'm 40.......to old for that....
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You know it makes sense.
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eng_ch, yeah he does pretty well don't you think?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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lungostyle, I'm really impressed by your willingness to help in a language that isn't your mother tongue. I certainly couldn't get as close in any other language. If you get stuck just give us your best description - I'm sure we will sort out the word you are looking for. I hope you stick around, as the others have said its always useful to get another mind on board.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Megamum, I still want to know if lungostyle is a biker
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I first succeeded in some side-slipping in an EoSb lesson with Euan on a steepish little bank just above the Knife & Fork. I didn't manage to go absolutely sideways but discovered I could go diagonally forward which was a great start & I was THRILLED with the experience and wanted to keep practising it as I could see it was a means of getting down difficult bits under some kind of control. I want to work on this more in March. For me the most important thing is feeling that I am in control and I want to learn to side-slip properly to contribute to this.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Butterfly, And if you do the same backwards you can 'falling leaf'.. a few feet forwards... slowly, the same backwards... soon you are past the steep bit.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Scarpa, I thought Falling leaf included the 2 small "uphill" sections as well as the diagonal... ??
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| little tiger wrote: |
| Scarpa, I thought Falling leaf included the 2 small "uphill" sections as well as the diagonal... ?? |
That's a 'garland' and it involves early carving skills.
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Masque, No not a garland... just a slight uphill at the end of the diagonal sideslip.... checked with Fastman he says yes... tends to happen because you are releasing ski ends....
You can probably do it with the pure diagonal movement... but that is not what "falling leaf" usually describes in skiing exercises...
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Masque, Oh and you can do garlands without carving... It is just often used as an edging drill
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| easiski wrote: |
| Luca's english is very good in reality, but writing and speaking are two different things |
Ain't that the truth! And for all that it's a little broken, it's totally comprehensible
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FAQ
so you'll be sure to get to where you want and further 
, one stops comparing/competing! I agree that the 
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