 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Spyderman, Are Acer Snowmec (who I believe produced the artificial snow systems installed at the XScape and Chill Factore snowdomes) involved in the new Hemel snowcentre, or is it a different supplier/technology?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I had no idea where Hemel is, but found it on the map and it's even further away than either Tamworth and MK. Oh well...
Wasn't there talk of building one of these in Sheffield...?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Alastair Pink, Acer Snowmec are doing the snow, but the technology has moved on again, even since Chill FactorE was built.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Spyderman, Have the snowHead's discount on admission prices, lunches etc been agreed yet?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Spyderman, I hope that another difference from Cas will be fewer of the various obstacles such as the sledging/ice slide areas and any ramps/rails that together make Cas's available slope narrow, especially at the bottom. I found the progression on to the top of the slope very difficult indeed and feel that having more slope width to use between turns would have helped - I am sure you remember what a bag of nerves I was at MK on Megamum's birthday 18 months ago, diagonally sideslipping rather than holding the course I wanted 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Personally I was disappointed to see that Hemel is so similar to the MK Snozone (small and unimaginative) - and will probably end up being a park / rail fest (just like MK these days).
If you want to learn, then I guess its a good starting point, but it's not an alternative to the 'real' thing. I will be saving my £30-a-session towards some real mountain action. At least I get to ride for more than 3 minutes at a time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
it's not an alternative to the 'real' thing
|
What were you expecting,pipeman? La Grave  These sort of places wouldn't make much money out of giving lessons if they were black run steep - these places have to be profitable businesses otherwise they would have no chance of raising the investment required to get built in the first place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
i certainly hope hemel's going to end up cheaper than MK - i live half way between the two and MK just seems like such a waste of money
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Yes, there's never going to be a snowdome that's an alternative to the real thing (although I have seen one numpty from Scotland here saying he'd rather go to Braehead than any Scottish mountain  ) however people could surely be forgiven for wanting something longer.
No offence to Hemel which I'm sure will be great but there's nothing in the UK yet to compare with domes like Landgraaf which is over 500 Metres.
People might also be forgiven for being keen on similar prices too - for an adult 8 hours of sliding for €37,50!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pipeman wrote: |
Personally I was disappointed to see that Hemel is so similar to the MK Snozone (small and unimaginative) - and will probably end up being a park / rail fest (just like MK these days).
If you want to learn, then I guess its a good starting point, but it's not an alternative to the 'real' thing. I will be saving my £30-a-session towards some real mountain action. At least I get to ride for more than 3 minutes at a time. |
Similar in that it's an indoor snow centre, different in almost every other way. It will not be full of furniture like MK.
It's as well as the 'Real Thing', not instead of.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Agreed - I was probably expecting too much. However, I do think that we could do more with our indoor slopes in this country. Yes, the business model is tried and tested. Yes it is a safe(r) option to stick within the known boundries, but where is the skill in that? We already have huge wharehouses (far longer than 100m, some no doubt 'chilled') so the technology exists to create a structure. We have the geography (an incline ideally - there are hills abound in the UK) so why not combine the two and create a decent length (500+m??) slope, cover it with a suitable shell and add snow?
For my own riding pleasure, steepness is far less important than length - give me decent run rather than a short, steep drop any day. So it becomes more an issue of space, not altitude. Perhaps the confines of Hemel's site restricted it to being a MK clone. If so, then fair enough, but elsewhere in this glorious island there ought to be a rolling valley of moss and heather, that could accommodate a decent slope. Even better - how about a brownfield site somewhere in the ex-industrial heartland? Landscaped with recycled rubble to enhance the natural terain. You could even make two slopes - one on each side of the hill. Wouldn't that be a novel idea.
A longer, more varied (and possibly gentler) slope would have a wider appeal, and I suspect be more able to accommodate the varied skill levels we see at MK (and elsewhere) by removing bottlenecks. More room could mean more than one nursery slope = more lesson capacity = more income.
I hope Hemel is a big success - especially as I live only 20mins away - and it encourages more people to enjoy the snow, but its nothing new, and that to me is its biggest failing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Its about 25 miles closer to me than MK. Personally I'm waiting on Snoasis for sheer ease of visiting. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
pipeman, Hemel had site constraints, in that it's built on an existing hill, replacing a Dendix slope. I think the real problem lies with the fact that a really huge centre would need to be build within easy reach of a large population centre, in order to generate enough revenue to sustain the build costs. Hemel is costing in the region of £23m for a 160m slope. A 500m+ slope would have to be built on a natural hill. Find a natural hill, near a large population centre, with planning permission, where there wouldn't be protests by whoever for building such an enormous building. It's not impossible, but it's a huge challenge. If it were my decision, I'd cover the Devil's Punchbowl with a roof and fill it full of snow, but I think the National Trust might have some objections.
|
|
|
|
|
|
monster77
monster77
Guest
|
| pipeman wrote: |
Personally I was disappointed to see that Hemel is so similar to the MK Snozone (small and unimaginative) - and will probably end up being a park / rail fest (just like MK these days).
If you want to learn, then I guess its a good starting point, but it's not an alternative to the 'real' thing. I will be saving my £30-a-session towards some real mountain action. At least I get to ride for more than 3 minutes at a time. |
The big difference is that Hemel is being run by skiers for skiers (and boarders ) not a large corporate body who couldn't careless so long as the £££'s come in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| pipeman wrote: |
| but elsewhere in this glorious island there ought to be a rolling valley of moss and heather, that could accommodate a decent slope. Even better - how about a brownfield site somewhere in the ex-industrial heartland? Landscaped with recycled rubble to enhance the natural terain. |
Sounds exactly like the site that Sheffield Ski Village is built on. But I've not heard anything of their ideas for turning it into a snowslope for many years.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
i certainly hope hemel's going to end up cheaper than MK
|
Why would they bother undercutting MK? There is no need for them to, as they are that much closer to the main population centre of London. I know people who live in south London and beyond who can't be a4sed to go to MK but intend regular visits to Hemel when it opens (finances permitting) becoz it is that much closer. If anything, MK will have to undercut Hemel to stay in business.
All this guff about Hemel being "run by skiers/boarders for skiers/boarders" is all very well but as with any business they will charge what they can. I expect they will roughly match MK prices when they open, and when MK suddenly loses all its trade from the south-east prices will come down there to undercut Hemel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
monster77
monster77
Guest
|
| the ice perv wrote: |
All this guff about Hemel being "run by skiers/boarders for skiers/boarders" is all very well but as with any business they will charge what they can. I expect they will roughly match MK prices when they open, and when MK suddenly loses all its trade from the south-east prices will come down there to undercut Hemel. |
My comment about how Hemel will be run was in reply to a question about whether there would be any freestyle stuff left out. Not about prices. Oh and I do have an idea of costs but my lips are sealed. cos it is not my place to quote them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| queen bodecia wrote: |
I had no idea where Hemel is, but found it on the map and it's even further away than either Tamworth and MK. Oh well...
Wasn't there talk of building one of these in Sheffield...? |
Sheffield dry slope was going to be developed into a super-duper indoor snowdome, along with a new housing area around it by a company called Menta. For various reasons the council didn't give the go ahead. The dry slope then hit a financial crisis but was rescued and the site is now apparently being revamped with a bowling alley built alongside it to try to attract other customers who might be tempted then to try skiing. The bowling alley was due to open for CHristmas 2008, but I don't know if it did - not been over there recently.
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/Ski-Village-strikes-out-in.4429306.jp
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Prices are now on their website, £33 for peak 2h recreational, £50 for 4h..... it is much closer for me but still hoped they will be cheaper than MK (£31 for 2h at MK)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tom W, why would they bother undercutting MK when they are so much closer to the main population centre (London)?? Business is business, these places take a lot of investment to get off the ground, and those investors will want their money back ASAP.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
It is very unlikely that I will ever use the facility at Hemel, but I do agree that having the space there to ski (without the other stuff going on same time) would be a really big selling point over the facility at MK. If it is going to be like Tamworth (as in without the obstacles and things in the way) but not with the slope going round the corner (I think Spyderman already confirmed earlier in this thread that Hemel will have a long straight slope not curved) then it will be a good place to go to.
I know in my example Tamworth have certain sessions for tobogganing and kickers/jumps etc but those are at specific times AFAIK, the rest of the time the slope is completely clear for recreational skiing and lessons. The time I saw the slope at MK it looked really "busy" (not necessarily with people but with limited room for the people that were skiing) with all sorts going on all at the same time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Will there be a ski shop there and who will run it?
I wouldn't travel to an indoor slope for the sake of it but it might be an ideal setup to test different skis with a view to buying a pair (though I realise that you're not gonna know what they're like in powder).
How do those ski tests run - are they exclusive, when are they announced and do you have to book?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Snow and Rock will be the main ski retailer there I think, and obviously the slope will have the usual type of rental stock for use on the slope. No idea of S&R will have test skis available; EB do at Milton Keynes IIRC.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The only skis I can think of that *might* be worth demoing on a 180m 15 degree slope are slalom skis and I can't see snow and rock having race skis for demo
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
True, but if I were to demo an all-mountain ski I'd at least be able to see how well it suited on piste, which is still better than buying blind.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
How about instruction / coaching?
Unless you're at the snowploughing level, there seems to be a distinct lack of courses for 'intermediates' and above at Milton Keynes ... that is unless you're happy to pay £150 for an hour's private tuition 
Does anyone know what Hemel are planning to do on the lessons side of things?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
The tuition costs at these places are horrendous and I can't believe the quality of the teaching warrants this expense. For the same cost as 2-3 1hr private lessons you could spend a whole week in Bulgaria and learn much more. I'd be interested to know how much the instructors get from private lessons and how much the company takes.
I really wonder why they don't push video analysis at these places. Due to the length of the slope and easy viewing it would be a great way for them to make money and sell lessons as well as being a very useful tool.
I'm not sure what the take up would be on intermediate lessons especially on a slope so gradual and short - their big market is clearly beginners learning before their holiday. Chillfactore do have stuff like "high speed carving" tuition (lol) though!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
abj, narc, I'm sure Spyderman, will be along soon to answer your questions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
gilleski, will be the man who takes the decisions as he's the Head of the new ski school at Hemel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
anyone know if Hemel will have telemark rental gear like Chill Factore?
i could be wrong but i heard MK was 15, 13 and 11 degrees so the same as Hemel
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
skimottaret, MK is 12 then 10 degrees. Chill is 15 then 10. Hemel is 15, 12 then 10.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
The latest photos on the website show good progress is being made. I've heard that the bad weather a few weeks ago caused a short delay in construction, so now due to open early May. We should have a snowHeads get-together to help christen the place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
skimottaret, AFAIAA there are no plans for rental Tele gear at Hemel. I did ask the question of gilleski as I was very interested in Tele myself. Hopefully something for the future.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rob@rar, I think the May Day holiday weekend is the proposed opening date.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
abj, Lessons at Hemel certainly don't stop at Intermediate level, they never did. The full range of what's available is on the Snowcentre website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
mega-snowHead
Posts: 16003
Location: LondonSnow and Rock will be the main ski retailer there I think, and obviously the slope will have the usual type of rental stock for use on the slope. No idea of S&R will have test skis available; EB do at Milton Keynes IIRC.
|
I know the manager,Rob, personally and he has assured that test stock will be available when the snow falls!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
However, so long as jump stuff isn't left on the slopes and kids toboggan parties don't cut off the other half, and out of control hoody mini-ciminals aren't allowed to spoil it for everyone (all of which happened the only time I've been to MK) then I should think it will be good value for most skiers. 