 Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| wkndtripper But if you can possible go later (ideally mid March, or failing that end Jan/early Feb) do. No time of year is guaranteed good snow but those give you the best combinations of lack of crowds and fair chance of good snow. If you want to make the money go a long way, go for mid January and WAIT to book - with two of you you'll find good last minute deals, especially in catered chalets. |
I second what Pam's suggested, in fact I really would suggest not going at new year especially to a 'big resort' as it will just be a pain as there's so many people around. You will get lots of 'conflicting views' on which would be the best resorts too..what is one person's 'awesome' is anothers 'nightmare'
As a couple and being flexible on venue (it would appear that you have no strong preferences) - the book last minute is a very good idea. Even if you book the week of work now, then leave it until around days before the week and hunt around on ifyouski etc and you should find a lot of unsold inventory which is going cheep. If you go in a chalet then they're might be other people to talk to on the holiday as well which has got to be a good thing in case one of you has a rubbish day...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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bart_bdv, it is fair because I have been to tons of Austrian and French resorts both summer and winter. I can see for my own eyes where the best under-snow conditions are on the actual runs (never mind at what altitude). It's a fact that you need less snow in Austria (generally) to get rock-hopping-free skiing, Austria generally gets a better start and the OP's question was about skiing at New Year.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| bart_bdv wrote: |
| ... La rosiere is the resort in the Tarentaise that gets the most snow. |
Do you also post under a different username?
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
| bart_bdv wrote: |
| ... La rosiere is the resort in the Tarentaise that gets the most snow. |
Do you also post under a different username? |
Haha no just thought it would be funny to say. But it's absolutely true...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I have been skiing in many Austrian and French resort as well and it has nothing to do with the country. The only reasons the under-snow conditions are better in Austria is because the resorts are usually lower. If you go to Ischgl or Sölden, you'll find just as rocky terrain as the high altitude resorts in France. You show a picture of Sankt Anton, but the Arlberg region especially Lech-Zürs really is a very rocky terrain that needs a lot of snow (luckily this region is very snowy). If you go to Les Gets or Chatel in France, the terrain is pastureland just like in Austria. Having said that, Austria is colder than France so gets much more snow at lower altitude.
I would agree that Austria is usually better than France early season. But watch out, a couple of years ago there was no snow at all at many of the low lying resorts like Kitzbühel during the Christmass period, and it was too warm for snow cannons. Not much use the pastures, if snow only falls above 2000m... Also Austria is colder than France and Italy, but not always... If there is südföhn, the zero degree limit in Austria rises to 2500-3000m and then resorts at 600-1000m lose all their snow in 1-2 days.
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| Quote: |
I would agree that Austria is usually better than France early season.
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Good, that's settled then.
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But watch out, a couple of years ago there was no snow at all at many of the low lying resorts like Kitzbühel during the Christmass period, and it was too warm for snow cannons.
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It was desperate almost everywhere in Europe.
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then resorts at 600-1000m lose all their snow in 1-2 days.
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no they don't.
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| Quote: |
But watch out, a couple of years ago there was no snow at all at many of the low lying resorts like Kitzbühel during the Christmass period, and it was too warm for snow cannons. |
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| It was desperate almost everywhere in Europe |
Ummm my first time skiing was that christmas in a French high up resort and there was no desperation at all for snow. Even the south facing side was still shaping up pretty well. There were icy patches but even the snow front didnt have any bare patches.
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
| I have noted that Schladming has opened for skiing in November for the last 6/7 seasons (may be longer but I just haven't noticed), yet the highest lift goes to only about 1900m |
I'd back Schladming or anywhere in Ski Amade area as a good early season bet. Last year Schladming opened some lifts from late October.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
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I would agree that Austria is usually better than France early season.
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Good, that's settled then.
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But watch out, a couple of years ago there was no snow at all at many of the low lying resorts like Kitzbühel during the Christmass period, and it was too warm for snow cannons.
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It was desperate almost everywhere in Europe.
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then resorts at 600-1000m lose all their snow in 1-2 days.
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no they don't. |
Sorry, but you're just not being objective! That Christmas there were plenty of resorts almost fully open, while the lower Austrian resort were completely closed. You're just fooling the people here that these low-lying resorts are among the most snow resorts in Europe. Well they are not! If the weather comes from the South the temperatures in Austria are just as high (if not higher due to the strong Föhn effect) as in the western Alps, together with being more than 1000m lower. Snow disappears very quickly in such a situation, and what's left is very bad slush right up to the top lift station. Of cours early season in a cold period Austria will have the best conditions, but if it is a warm period, you better take a mountain bike. Look at the following pictures from Austria (from this forum) on January-February 2007! Don't say it was desperate everywhere, because I was skiing in good conditions in Italy at the same time. I definitely like Austria but you're giving wrong information to people:
http://www.snowmediazone.com/the_zone/showphoto.php/photo/5649
http://www.snowmediazone.com/the_zone/showphoto.php/photo/5648
http://www.snowmediazone.com/the_zone/showphoto.php/photo/5654
Any resort thatlooks like this in that period cannot be called a snowsure resort
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I was skiing in good conditions in Italy at the same time.
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and I was in France, not great conditions, but skiable, all resort runs open. It's luck of the draw.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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bart_bdv, you said:
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I would agree that Austria is usually better than France early season.
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Now you're saying something else. I can't be bothered to open those pics because poor snowfall can happen anywhere. Think you need to re-read the whole argument.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
bart_bdv, you said:
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I would agree that Austria is usually better than France early season.
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Now you're saying something else. I can't be bothered to open those pics because poor snowfall can happen anywhere. Think you need to re-read the whole argument. |
No the argument remains the same. USUALLY Austria is better than France early season. But sometimes it is so bad, that almost nothing is open (at least in the typical low lying resort, not in Ischgl, Obertauern, Obergurgl,...)
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bart_bdv,
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But sometimes it is so bad, that almost nothing is open
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You mean, exactly what it's like when it's bad in France. Anyway, this is becoming circular and I normally only engage with people who can read.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You mean, exactly what it's like when it's bad in France.
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Exactly like it is in France in low lying resorts, such as those in the Jura. But it would be very rare that any of the French resorts frequented by British punters would have "almost nothing open".
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Poster: A snowHead
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| bart_bdv wrote: |
| ... USUALLY Austria is better than France early season. |
Do the snow records support that statement? I'm not a member of the Ski Club so I don't think I can check their snow database, but I would love to see the last 15 years of early season snow data for, say, the highest three resorts and three mid-altitude resorts in each country.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
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You mean, exactly what it's like when it's bad in France.
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Exactly like it is in France in low lying resorts, such as those in the Jura. But it would be very rare that any of the French resorts frequented by British punters would have "almost nothing open". |
and very rare that any Austrian resorts would have "almost nothing open" or you'd see a visitation of several million Germans in France. Bringing the Jura into this is another dimension we really don't need.
Anyway, here's a true and honest picture I took of Val D'Isere last February...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, you can view snow histories for the last 6 years in most resorts for free at igluski... i think it is the same scuk data too...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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cathy, i think we were both lucky to get any snow in those few weeks. If i remember rightly that rain storm washed away all the snow heli lifted in for the Hahnenkamm...
That said... the season before in St johann at about 600m we had 150cm on the lower slopes... would that happen in a french resort at 600m?
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ski-finder, yes. If you bring up the photo below, you can just see one of the helicopters doing snow manoeuvres on the Hahnenkamm. All that money & effort & it just got washed away....
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| Quote: |
Bringing the Jura into this is another dimension we really don't need.
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who decides what "we" need?  The Jura resorts are the only French resorts I have seen with "hardly anything open" - I was responding to your argument. If you leave the Jura resorts out of it, I've never seen a French resort with "hardly anything open" in 30 years, including the whole of each of the last six seasons. The worst snow I've ever encountered was in Kapaonik and Alpbach. Proves nothing, of course. Luck of the draw.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| ski-finder wrote: |
| That said... the season before in St johann at about 600m we had 150cm on the lower slopes... would that happen in a french resort at 600m? |
Possibly not, but I think that is a point of confusion in this thread which results in misleading advice. You cannot compare resorts at a similar altitude in Austria and France on the same basis. The different climate models that can affect the winter seasons in these countries make comparisons fairly meaningless. In my experience altitude is a very important factor in snow conditions, especially at the start and end of the season. But you cannot say that a 900m Austrian resort has great snow while a 1300m French resort has poor snow, ergo altitude is not important. A better comparison for people trying to decide where will give them the best chance of early snow is to look at the snow records for the highest two or three resorts in whichever country they might want to ski in. Altitude will not, of course, guarantee the best snow as there will be some conditions which mean lower slopes have better conditions (a succession of strong storms, for example, can scour the high peaks of snow), but I think it's a useful guideline if you have to make a booking well in advance of early or late season holidays. Perhaps the best advice for pre-Christmas trips is to book as late as possible and choose the country/region/resort which has the best conditions at the time.
As for whether Austria or France has the best early season snow on average, surely the freely available snow records are a better indicator than the anecdotal evidence that I and other people have thrown into this particular pot?
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| Quote: |
surely the freely available snow records are a better indicator than the anecdotal evidence
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I am not sure about this, the scgb records are tourist office derived and some tourist offices appear a lot more honest than others whether there is a systemic country bias or not I don't know, but I would prefer something from a meteorological source. There is also the matter of the records being depths which as pointed out earlier does not necessarily equate to skiing conditions as so much depends on the terrain.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar, i was just pointing out that my crap year in Saalbach was preceded by a bumper year in St Johann at an even lower altitude... no idea what point it is or isn't making, just that every year has been different for me.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| ski-finder wrote: |
| ... just that every year has been different for me. |
Indeed. We are often at the mercy of the snowgods!
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| ... The best advice IMO is to aim high in which ever country you choose, if you plan to ski at the start or the end of the season. There will be times when that advice is not valid, but as a rule of thumb I think it is a good one. |
To be honest Rob, that is in essence exactly what has happened on this thread if you read back through the first few posts. Up to the point where you made that post quoted above, all the resorts suggested by people were all high and typically snow-sure. For many of us, we now know which resorts are high and which are not, but the first few posters assumed that the OP didn't know that, so named a few.
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You know it makes sense.
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Ray Zorro, except that Bode Swiller wrote
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| I'm generally generalising in a general kind of way and generally like to dispel skiing myths about altitude being the big factor in snow reliability, generally. |
which I disagree with.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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We'll have to hope the OP either doesn't come back to this thread or has the stamina to read through it all and not just give up the entire idea!
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, I suspect that was a bit of a generalisation
But... How many times has Whitegold answered a thread like this by saying "go to a resort above 1850 with skiing above 2000m" - which (AFAIK) effectively rules out all of Austria. I suspect it was that sort of statement that Bode Swiller was referring to (but would rather not argue on his behalf).
Posts like this one http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=977074#977074 for instance on a similarly titled thread.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
| But... How many times has Whitegold answered a thread like this by saying "go to a resort above 1850 with skiing above 2000m" - which (AFAIK) effectively rules out all of Austria. I suspect it was that sort of statement that Bode Swiller was referring to (but would rather not argue on his behalf) |
Yes, Whitegold's nonsense is equally daft. The general advice to "go high" is sensible IMO especially early or late season, but "high" is a relative term depending on which country you plan to ski in.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, I think that we are broadly in agreement here. In fact you will note that I have quoted you elsewhere http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1004716#1004716
However, it was interesting to see on Brian's table that even within a country, the snow-line level varies. It would possibly be only through a forum like this, where people report back the snow conditions week by week across the whole of Europe that we can begin to draw our own snow-contours.
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Ray Zorro, Trouble is everyone's perception of good snow and personal preference varies e.g I prefer 'icy' to 'slush' ... its the Summer though so I suppose we have to have an antedote to the heat.
Shame for the OP that their original question got swamped in the gonad-weighing and creative journalism though. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Oh, go to Tgnes. Lots os snow, plenty of room, even at New Year.
Whoever it was that said its the worst time to go , don't you have Christmas holidays then? Bit of a waste to have time off and not use it skiing isn't it? Even if I didn't have kids, I wouldn't give up the New Year trip, Tignes at New Year, or Edinburgh, easy call!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Agenterre wrote: |
| gonad-weighing |
I must have missed this? 
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Well I have spent all night computing all the comments, half-truths, truths, myths and nonsense and the answer to the OP's original question is... stay at home. That's the best place in Europe at New Year.
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