 Poster: A snowHead
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david@mediacopy,
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I think that there it's easier to make progress in your skiing on a mountain course over a snowdome type course. The speeds will be higher, terrain steeper and more variable etc. etc.
While students can save money by doing courses in the UK I doubt that they will be as well prepared the the final L2 exam as if they had trained 'on snow'. It will be interesting to see how the pass rates hold up.
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Do you mean that if someone takes the L2 "closed qualification" indoors and passes it, and then subsequently decides to do the upgrade to Alpine L2 later on, that they are less likely to pass the L2 Alpine upgrade including the final L2 exam than someone who has gone to the mountain from the outset and done the 2 week L2 alpine course?
I can definitely see the logic in that, (depends on the level of the skier and training that the skier has had up to date mind but that's the same with anything) but it will be interesting to see the pass rates as time goes on as you say.
Talking of mountain or Snowdome, when we were doing our L1 last week at the Snowdome, the vast majority of the time the Snowdome was adequate for what we needed to do/perform. For the personal performance drills, on a few occasions I did think, "Ooh I could do with a bit more room here to practice that properly (or how I wanted to practice it)" if you get what I mean, so I definitely wouldn't do the L2 indoors, that wouldn't be my cup of tea, but that's me. Especially the carving practice, you feel like you can't get very much speed up in a small space like the Snowdome with lots of other people to consider re safety.
I considered doing the L1 week abroad with someone like ICE Val D'Isere who rob@rar went with to do his L1 incidentally. There is absolutely no doubt that I would have got more out of it for my own skiing doing it on a mountain, especially when you have a bit of time to yourself to practice, but we were talking another 200 Euros say for a week's lift pass, plus the cost of flights, transfers, food and accomodation for Val D'Isere so another say £500 at least, oh and they haven't got the next one until Dec now so that was another contributing factor. I'm not stingy or anything and had the money to do it either way like, but I thought I could use that extra money towards some specific training later on if it turns out that I like the ski instructing. So to me it just wasn't worth the extra money when for me I was dipping a toe in the water to see if ski teaching is for me or not.
Also, not doing the L1 on a mountain wasn't too much of a worry for me, as I'd had quite a bit of BASI holiday training lately which did put me in rather good stead I have to admit, and I have got some specific training planned to help me get towards L2, but for the others who don't go skiing quite as often and hadn't skied for ages things were a bit different, and they probably could have benefitted by spending the extra money and done their L1 in resort. I wonder if it would have made any difference to them passing the L1 or not. Who knows. Probably not.
I'm glad I did it and found out it is for me, and I'll be heading towards L2 in due course, no rush though. 
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 18-06-08 14:52; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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david@mediacopy, good point, as an example when i did my grade 3 the three people that failed out of 20 students all had ASSI's instead of the trainee week in the mountains....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, There was a bit of that on my course too.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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VolklAttivaS5, Just to clarify for you the L2 Alpine course is a 10 day constant assessment, not a 9 day training and 1 day exam at the end. If a Candidate is weak on a particular element they have until the 10th day to achieve the standard.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimottaret, every L2 Instructor at Hemel and I include myself, did their L2 with a SSS ASSI exemption from the Trainee course. Mind you we do have P S-G coaching us and advising Candidates on their readiness for the course.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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VolklAttivaS5, I fully understand where you are coming from. I the L1 boarding in a snowdome and from a teaching point of view it was more than adequate. In fact all the teaching stuff was done in what seemed to be a big garage.....
But I know from when I was preparing to do my Ski Grade 3 that the then 1 week foundation course on snow made a big difference to my general all mountain skiing. There's no way I'd have benefited as much indoors. I would have liked to have done the same on the Boarding but as you say it's expensive but I doubt that I'll go on to do the L2
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| what does david@mediacopy mean then when he said it will be interesting to see the pass rate of the final L2 exam in his earlier post for the upgrade L2 alpine course. |
Sorry. I meant that part of the assessment is personal performance i.e. the level at which you ski. If your training is mostly indoors in the UK it may be that you will not reach the same level of personal skiing that you would if you did the BASI courses in the mountains.
If I'm correct then the overall pass rate will fall - it's usually published in the BASI news. It may be hard to tell for sure as I doubt that figures will be broken down.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Spyderman, not having a pop at ASSI's but as david@mediacopy, says training outdoors may give you a better chance at cracking the full L2. Having a BASI trainer delivering your ASSI i am sure helped put you Hemel guys ahead of the bell curve... 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| i see WM is in favour with MSC at present |
CEM, I dunno where you get that idea. The fact is that Steve is providing some race training every wednesday evening at the tamworth, to which some MSC people go to. WM does tend to have more race gear in stock than the local shop - and the uxbridge place has more. Doesn't mean anyone is in, or out, of favour.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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With the whole basi/hngb problem, is where complications start. Certain governing bodies dont exist/join together and then you have the need to replace old qualifications with other new/similar ones.
Some assi/club instructor courses are now basi L1/L2 closed courses which will allow indoor and dry slope instruction, which has to be done under the new 'umbrella' of basi.
There obviously is a big difference between the two L2 basi courses, and this ammounts to the diffenence between the old assi/club instructor and the old basi grade III. One is set for a dryslope/indoor level, the other for a mountainous enviroment. IMO basi have done well with all the possible problems involved with this, and at present are trying to raise the level of uk based instruction.
This can only help those who work with the clients in resort in the end (hopefully).
Also, as far as i am aware, it might not actually be a 'basi' trainer running the dryslope/indoor courses. But again this probably relates to the old assi courses, as they weren't run by the trainers.
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You know it makes sense.
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freestyleandy, All of the L1 courses I've seen have been run by a BASI Trainer and the 'L2 Closed' that kicked off this thread would be run by a BASI Trainer too. I've not heard of a non BASI Trainer running any BASI Courses. There was the conversion courses for SSE & SSS Trainers to deliver L1 Courses, but as the arrangement has broken down between BASI and the home nations, I'm not sure if any were actually delivered by the Home Nations. Of course some of the SSS/SSE Coaches are also BASI Trainers anyway.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've not heard of a non BASI Trainer running any BASI Courses.
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Sorry but I think your wrong there. BASI now have "Tutors" as well as trainers. Tutors AFAIK can only deliver L1 courses. At MK a Tutor delivered the recent L1 courses.
Rumour i heard was that BASI invited SSE tutors to the trainers conference in Zermatt and selected around 6 or so to provide L1 course delivery. I also know of one ISTD who was turned down for Trainer status is now looking to become a Tutor....
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Poster: A snowHead
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skimottaret is correct, in fact there is Tutor training taking place this week I believe.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Another bit of news/rumor i have come across is that the 'tutors' for the new basi L1 courses may not all be basi qualified, but fom the csia system. Probably due to basi's new best buddy thing going on with the csia, AFAIK, they will be allowing/training them to be "basi" tutors for the L1 courses. Could turn out interesting.....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret,
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Quote:
I've not heard of a non BASI Trainer running any BASI Courses.
Sorry but I think your wrong there. |
Sorry, but I know I'm right. My statement was quoting from personal experience. I haven't heard of a non BASI Trainer run course, not that there hasn't been any.
skimotteret
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| BASI now have "Tutors" as well as trainers. Tutors AFAIK can only deliver L1 courses. At MK a Tutor delivered the recent L1 courses. |
Thank you for confirming that the arrangement between BASI and SSE/SSS course Tutors who previously delivered ASSI courses, are also now delivering L1.
As mentioned in my post
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| There was the conversion courses for SSE & SSS Trainers to deliver L1 Courses, |
skimotteret
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| I also know of one ISTD who was turned down for Trainer status |
I was under the impression that ISTD were invited to become Trainers by their peers and not by application. Please correct me if I'm wrong?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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freestyleandy, Could be interesting when it comes to the 'Central Theme' as CSIA do not teach 'Plough Parallel' as a stage in their progression to Parallel turns. 
I thought that most of the additional L1 'Tutor' Pool was to come from SSS and a couple from SSE, by way of a BASI assessment and Course Tutor training course, for those who wished to jump ship to BASI.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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freestyleandy, Could be interesting when it comes to the 'Central Theme' as CSIA do not teach 'Plough Parallel' as a stage in their progression to Parallel turns.
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Spyderman, Very true, the csia fast track to parallel is a bit different than the basi method, but i would guess that the basi assessment/tutor course will emphasise the diffrences in this case, and the L1 course itself will be run to a basi criteria.
And maybe as with the basi coaching courses it maybe leading to a L1 course that is recognised by both organisations??
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Spyderman, ummm no arguments from me... Your implication was that only BASI trainers were running the courses. all i was getting at was that it looks like BASI are having non BASI Trainers deliver L1 courses. You quite rightly mentioned previously that BASI have done a conversion course for SSx trainers so that they can deliver BASI training. From what you wrote i assumed you were talking about SSE guys who were also full BASI ISTD level trainers sorry didnt mean to cause offense The ISTD guy i mentioned wasnt going to get "Trainer" status but rather ""Tutor" status...
freestyleandy, Interesting to here they are opening it up to CSIA qualified peeps as well...
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freestyleandy,
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| And maybe as with the basi coaching courses it maybe leading to a L1 course that is recognised by both organisations?? |
Up until about 3 years ago SSS ASSI was accepted as a bye for CSIA L1, so direct access to CSIA L2 was possible, this was withdrawn by CSIA. Let's hope that BASI L1 is seen as an equivalent again, allowing direct access to CSIA L2. I was very pleased that I did courses with both CSIA & BASI. I feel I've learnt a lot from both systems and feel I can cherry pick ideas to use in my teaching.
It's worth BASI Instructors to go through a CSIA course, the focus on teaching and the 'Guest Experience' is something that BASI is lacking. I see from the last BASI News, that the Teaching emphasis in the L2 course is now much stronger. It seemed a bit too focused on personal skiing to me when I did mine, in fact the teaching only took 2 x 20min sessions each, in a 10 day course.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| ... the teaching only took 2 x 20min sessions each, in a 10 day course. |
That was the same for me in March this year. But in a parallel L2 group the emphasis on teaching was much greater. I think there's a fair amount of variation in approach between different Trainers.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, Even only doing the 2 Teaching Sessions, overall the Course was outstanding. His slightly different approach and ideas have made a lasting impression on me. 
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Spyderman, agreed. I found it a remarkable couple of weeks. Really opened my eyes, and in some ways transformed my skiing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar,
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| Really opened my eyes, |
The Tai Chi is to be done with the Eyes closed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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we had 4 mock lessons to give and lots of Central theme stuff
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I've asked again and been told this relates to the BASI ADC L2, which can be taken in a closed environment, aimed at chief instructors / coaches in the UK who don't want or need Alpine experience. There are no plans for an Alpine Instructor L2 for the UK.
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You know it makes sense.
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beanie1, now that really doesn't make sense. The ADC L2 course is only 4 days, rather than 2 weeks, so there's not a huge amount you'd be able to save by offering a reduced course. Also it then makes no sense to call it a UK Senior Instructor, although as yet we have only a single source (Spyderman) for that info. There may be a case for an additional module that's artificial slope specific, covering differences/constraints imposed by different surfaces and restricted size slopes, but that's a different issue.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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GrahamN, not a reduced course, same course but delivered in the UK.
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Poster: A snowHead
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beanie1, GrahamN,
I queried the original email to me with P S-G. He confirmed without ambiguity the details that I subsequently posted and that He indeed would be running the course.
I suggest beanie1 that your source of information is out of date in regards to this matter.
P S-G is one of the driving forces in BASI with regard to courses in UK, especially the L1.
I trust implicitly the info received from him.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Spyderman, yes, I assumed as much - and have no reason to doubt your info. On the contrary, I mentioned this that evening at our club and our Trainer (Tutor? not sure which he is) seemed surprised that I knew about it, but didn't deny it . So I suppose that may be considered as a second source (but clearly from the same primary source).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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UK Senior Instructor
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= a bit less than L2, which = (in old money) Grade 3 = in even older money 'Assistant Ski Instructor'
????
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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BASI Level 1 Alpine Instructor allows direct access to CSIA Level 2 - as long as you pay the CSIA a joining fee first.
This is an interesting development, which represents a genuine possibility for those without the time to spend 2 weeks exclusively just to get the BASI Level 2 Alpine Instructor.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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BASI Level 1 Alpine Instructor allows direct access to CSIA Level 2 - as long as you pay the CSIA a joining fee first.
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slikedges, I thought there would be something like that happening, as even now any basi qualified instructor applying for work in canadian resorts are being given priority, almost like 'being sweetened up'.
however,
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This is an interesting development, which represents a genuine possibility for those without the time to spend 2 weeks exclusively just to get the BASI Level 2 Alpine Instructor.
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I forsee the only problem with that being that the canadian courses are going to have to be longer and include more modules to come into line with ISIA standards. At present to work in Andorra, for example, you need the csia L2 extended course, which is actually 12 days, although i think its just slightly cheaper than basi
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| slikedges wrote: |
BASI Level 1 Alpine Instructor allows direct access to CSIA Level 2 - as long as you pay the CSIA a joining fee first.
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That's really good to hear. Kitty missed out on doing the course last time we were in Canada, so hopefully she can fit a course in this trip.
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Having just come in on this, the "indoor" Level 2 qualification would seem to be absolutely ideal for me - I have no desire whatsoever to teach in the mountains, but would like to be able to teach higher standard stuff indoors. However as I understand it, this isn't currently being offered, but Level 2 in full is on offer. That is why at the moment I'm aiming for Level 2, plus I'd enjoy developing my outdoor skiing to a higher level too. I guess it's a case of wait and see what to do come next Spring - if the indoor course is on offer, I'd probably go for that, if not, then I'll have a pop at full Level 2.
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docsquid, All the course needs to run it is a min 7 people right now and it goes ahead.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Spyderman, I can't see any dates or locations on the BASI web site for this course, or any information about it. Or do you have access to information I don't have as a mere BASI Associate
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docsquid, I've got access to information that isn't on the BASI Website I'm sure it will be there eventually.
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FAQ
