 Poster: A snowHead
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GrahamN,
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I discovered from the last one I did
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Empirical observation. Do you really think Freshtracks turn people away from a non-fully booked holiday when the numbers, between ability groups, are askew? Perhaps I'm cynical, but I doubt it.
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If you find you're in a group above the lowest one and you're out of your depth then ask to be put down a group
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I did. I was told it was full, which I think meant that they wanted to keep the numbers in each group more or less equal.
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The only problem comes if you have a wide advertised ability range |
Precisely so. My holiday was thus advertised and so, I think, is achilles'. However, the number of participants on mine was not small, it was simply not split evenly between the advertised levels of ability.
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a good teacher should be able to find terrain/exercise variations that can stretch both ends of the group at the same time.
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Agreed. I was unlucky in that my teacher wasn't (IMV) very good.
I think not, but your opinion is noted.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Generally I have been on SCGB holidays with either a single or two grades. Since SCGB grade people well the only problem from that point of view are the few over optimistic self graders who are sometimes asked to leave the group and join the ski school. The time I went on a Red - gold holiday I was the only Gold - but that was hardly their fault.
Keeping an even number between abilities in a large mixed group might be difficult - I imagine they would take any booking in the total range. Perhaps someone should bring this up on the SCGB site.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Grading is a hugely variable subject. I shared a room on a Freshtracks holiday in Fernie this year who had been graded as silver by some idiot rep on a holiday earlier this year. He left Fernie with, IMHO, a correct grading of purple-gold on-piste and purple+ off piste. I have also seen silver-purple holidays where 90% of the skiers were Purple or Gold level...
It ain't perfect. And I think that when someone asks to be put down a group, like Hurtle did - that should always be respected, as it is tiring and tough being the muppet in a fast-moving group - I know having been there. Hurtle - I hope you fed your experience back to the club.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowball,
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Keeping an even number between abilities in a large mixed group might be difficult
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I agree and am not particularly critical of Freshtracks. They have to have an eye to the economics and it won't always be an ideal mix, if they're trying to cater for several grades. It's perhaps just something punters should bear in mind. My comment to achilles was merely conversational, it wasn't meant to be an anti-Ski Club rant, though I guess that's how it may have been interpreted by GrahamN.
stoatsbrother,
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graded as silver by some idiot rep
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in fairness, that's what happened to me, only trouble was it was the other way round, I was not as good as the rep made out! I did tell Freshtracks I'd been over-graded (for off-piste anyway) when I made the booking, but that made no difference.
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I hope you fed your experience back to the club
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Oddly enough, I never received a feedback form, so I haven't fed back. Probably should do... Leader was a bit iffy too, if truth be told (but maybe that was just in comparison with the one I had last year, who was extraordinarily attentive, a real star. I've only been on two Freshtracks holidays in toto.) Actually, thinking about it, last year's holiday had a 'mix' problem of a different sort: it wasn't fully booked, so they only put one leader on instead of two, though again the holiday was aimed at more than one level. It was difficult for the leader to keep the better skiers happy. One woman got so bored with the relatively slow pace that she stopped skiing with the group, but she managed to ski with the resort rep most other days, so ended up reasonably content in the end. It does all seem a bit hit and miss, particularly with the gradings being such moveable feasts. The system probably doesn't work too badly overall, though, and I certainly didn't feel minded to make a complaint on either occasion.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hurtle, sorry, I misread your original gripe, reading instead that they would fill up a holiday irrespective of whether you were within the advertised level. Yes, there is no expectation that groups within that level should be balanced within the published levels. I've never been on a trip though (and I've been on about a dozen) where there was not a grey line between groups and the least able of one group has always been of similar standard to the most able of the next lower. Actually most of the trips I've been on have actually only been two groups - but both this year have been three which mostly made getting homogeneous groups easier. A couple of trips I've been on have had only one group - one was a silver instruction and we ended up S/P to P+, and another safari ended up P- to P/G - and both groups worked very well. If you want to check up on likely groupings just ask the office when booking - on one occasion several years ago I went on a big Easter group which was Red/Silver but as a purple checked that there were enough others to make up a purple-ish group before booking on. I was also dissuaded from one PE holiday I was enquiring about (I'm not quite that age yet, but getting there) as the others were "quite definitely PE". The biggest problem is always going to be at snowball's level, getting enough full golds to make up a group to ski at a level that can stretch people like him. Once on the holiday, if you asked to move down the rep should have moved the strongest of the lower group up if necessary. Just sounds like s/he's an ar$e.
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It is not only on SCGB trips where this issue arises.
I am a regular user of Freshtracks holidays as well as other organisations. With several of the trips with another excellent organisation, which is usually highly regarded on this board, I have seen the same problem arise on several occasions where people are not happy with the group they are put in or moved to during the course of the week.
The same has arisen when I have joined one day at a time off piste guiding groups with very good private ski schools in both Val d'Isere and Tignes. I think the problem is inevitable at least to some degree, when any organisation or ski school is trying to put together groups of people most of whom will be complete strangers to each other, no matter what guidelines or gradings are issued beforehand.
Then of course the issue of pride and ego can come into it. Whenever I have seen problems of this nature arise, it is always easy to blame the instructor, guide or rep whatever, but in my experience anyway, the guides or leaders have usually got it right and that includes the ski club trip a few years ago when I was down graded a notch myself. I am pleased to say that I was upgraded again a couple of years later so I like to think that I reacted in the right way.
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Personally, I think snowheads bashes have spoiled me. I have chilled out and am having a great time at St A with great people, but the flexibility and lack of constraint at a bash allows everyone to find people they like skiing with in a kind of anarchic way I cannot imagine with anyone else.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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achilles, Maybe Snowheads should start thinking more seriously about starting a snow holiday travel agency, I think the transparency of the forum would keep a very high standard of service and it is very easy to find out what people want from a holiday via this medium 
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plectrum, I think snowheads could develop its bashes further, and have been in discussion with a certain Long Haired One. I'll drop a note on Fresh Tracks holidays in a separate thread.
Those who advised me to go, based on snow conditions, were right.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Just got back from a weekend in Lech. Snow conditions were absolutely fabulous. Lots of lovely fluffy stuff on the Valluga North (towards Zurs) and off the Muggengrat lift both back towards the lift and towards zurs and then the steilhang over madloch-lech.
Finished this morning off skiing the stierfall - enough snow to ski into it (never seen that before) and then thigh deep powder most of the way down - didn't see another person from top to bottom. 
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FAQ
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